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RE: The Curmudgeon's Bible - II Thessalonians 1
I think of Gehenna, the valley of ashes and the fires that don't go out. That haunted my childhood and made me wish I was never born. Frightening visions with a lot more Dante than God in them. Tradition and the Bible...yeah, been down that road before...don't have an answer for you other than God's grace
Those are compelling metaphorical images. However, in them I see grace that neither medieval monks nor modern churchmen for the most part will acknowledge. I believe that God will mercifully extinguish his enemies, not sadistically torture them for eternity. I am persuaded that this is in fact the preponderance of what scripture teaches.
Unfortunately, that's not what Jesus said. He talked about Hell more than anyone else and didn't mince words:
Mark further quotes Jesus, "9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
And this parable...
Hi, Stan, nice to hear from you!
However, before you unwittingly misrepresent Jesus and the predominant thrust of his teaching, may I ask you to review a couple of counterpoints to your remark about how much Jesus talked about hell?
Did Jesus preach hell more than heaven?
and
More About Hell?
I'm not at all trying to represent "hell" as a picnic or a joyful outcome. It is a fire, an unarguably painful and fearful end, but it is an end and not a perpetual torturing.
Let's look at the verses you've quoted:
Yes, the fire is eternal. That says nothing about what it consumes. There is no implication other than destruction when a mere mortal is introduced into an eternal fire.
This very verse uses time conditional language, the word until - How long does the torture endure? UNTIL he should pay back all he owed.
EDIT: Not to mention ALL THE PSALMS and II Thessalonians 1, just quoted from in this article...
Some day, when I finally get my "round tuit", I shall write a more complete series of articles on this. Meanwhile, take care, Brother Stan! :)
it's a less horrific possibility, but how do you annihilate a spirit? We're a mixture of dust and divinity
."We're a mixture of dust and divinity"
I don't believe this to be quite accurate. While we are definitely made "in God's image," that does not confer eternity upon us. The concept of an "eternal soul" is a Greek idea, not a biblical one. The very first mention of death was to Adam.
"...from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." Literally, "dying you will die." Adam began dying the day he ate. Paul tells us the rest of the story in Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—".
Death is death, not "eternal life in flames." All of the sacrifice imagery in the bible, all the Psalms I've quoted, speak of death and of perishing. The writer of Hebrews tells us this: " for our God is a consuming fire."
Stated a slightly different way, life and more particularly eternal life is a gift — a gift that we do not possess until and unless it is given to us. Jesus said "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."
Eternal life is the opposite of "perish." Perish is what happens to non-sheep. It is the natural end of man. We desperately need this gift of eternal life if we wish not to perish. John chapter 3 verse 16.
yeah, I don't want to get into an annihilationist argument - sorry, but it gives me heartburn
No worries...
One day in the Glory, one of us will be able to say to the other "Told you so!" for-ever... ;) :D LOL!
I regret, for your sake, that there won't be any more ghosts for you to write about in those days... other than historically speaking, oh, and a Holy one... ;) :D