Do we need a Dark Pool in our Platform? :)

in OCD4 years ago (edited)

Alright this is meant to be a joke. Also guys, it is not as bad as it sounds, please let me explain. I won't talk about dark pool too much until later and that is also mostly for fun so please do not take this seriously.

You all know about EIP and the latest hard fork that happened in August. There was/is still significant controversy if the EIP, 50-50 reward split and the downvote pool is good or bad for the steem economy. We do not have an answer, as time will tell the real answer. However, I am one of the proponents who said for a while that EIP is good for the economy. No if or but, it is good, period. I do not post, but I am quite active behind the scene. I tried to prove that using charts for a while. Point is quite simple, if you look at the Steem/BTC pair, which is the most important for any alt-coins, it has stabilized almost as soon as EIP was implemented.

The chart of Steem/BTC above is something I shared with a friend of mine on Oct 16, 2019, to make a point that price had been stable. But you know people don’t understand stability in crypto :) things must “moon” for them all the time. Outsiders like me often smile at that, because in financial markets moon-rekt-pump are not the terms we commonly use. However, there is nothing wrong with that as long as we are communicating.

Above is the same Steem/BTC chart today. It is the best performing crypto on coinmarketcap.com today. It is trading at the top of the range, tomorrow it may not. To me that is least important. Price does not matter, it's the volume that matters, and today we show the best volume over the last 4 months. Actually it is the best volume on Steem/BTC ever on Binance. That is significant to me. Therefore, we are all excited, and publishing several positive articles on steem like from @aggroed, @theycallmedan, and @acidyo among others:

https://steemit.com/palnet/@aggroed/guys-your-chance-to-earn-steem-is-dwindling-get-back-to-writing

https://steemit.com/hive-100421/@theycallmedan/zfjdulsk

https://steemit.com/steem/@acidyo/some-thoughts-and-facts-on-steem

The first two are very bullish post, I urge people to read and listen to it, and the third one is a balanced view on what should be done.

Alright I am getting to the title. A dark pool is just a fancy name for a closed secondary market for trading stocks, derivatives, and other similar financial instruments. If you want to learn more about dark pool and High Frequency Trading in general, there is a very enjoyable easy to read best seller on the market Michael Lewis’s Flash Boys, give it a try.

The reason I am talking about dark pool is because what @theycallmedan mentioned in his video. He was talking about the lack of sell side liquidity in the largest exchange that we have for Steem/BTC. He is absolutely right, if anyone trying to buy 250K steem right now, he/she will have a real problem as there is basically no sell side liquidity. Meaning, there is not enough steem on the offer on the best public exchange that we have. That is also just one individual trade. Imagine if 10 traders wants to do a trade like that (which is nothing in real life by the way), that’s 2.5M steem. Forget about it. Therefore, our market remains juvenile.

One of the solutions for thinly traded market (or even well traded market) is to have a dark pool. I do not know how much you guys know this, but currently about 70%-80% of the daily volume of the US stock market happens within the dark pool. If you have a brokerage account, most common ones like TD Ameritrade, Schwab, whatever, mostly likely your 53 shares of AAPL stock that you bought for your IRA, likely executed inside the dark pool. Most of our trades never see the daylight these days, and that’s perfectly fine there is nothing illegal or wrong about it. As a consumer, it actually helps you to get a better price. How do you know that your order was executed inside the dark pool? There are many ways, but the simplest is when you see on your brokerage statement that you bought 20 shares of NVDA at 249.237653 last Friday, you know almost certainly that your order went into a dark pool. Try putting more that 2 decimal places on your TD Ameritrade webpage :) Whenever it is more than 2 decimal places it is certainly an HFT trade of the other side inside a dark pool.

So why all these are important? Lets say, @theycallmedan wants to buy 250K steem, and @blocktrades wants to sell 100K Steem and I want to sell 150K steem. If there is a big block trade dark pool inside steem, we can settle this trade on the secondary market without going to Binance. Why would we want to do that... you ask. Simple, just like Dan explained, if he wants to buy 250K steem in the open market, he will likely have to push the price up 5%-10%, and that’s not cool. Inside the dark pool this trade can be settled without any slippage.

Just a thought. If it can happen in the stock market, why not here?

Anyways, I wrote this post after more than a year. I have no idea when I will write another post. Hopefully soon. There are a lot of good things that are happening on this Platform of ours, let us forget our small disagreements and make this platform better on all possible facets. Price will follow. I personally do not care about price. This is a social experiment for me. If we are even remotely successful we don’t have to worry about price. I do hope @aggroed wins his bet though :)

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Do you believe steem/btc is uniquely stable out of all the altcoins because of the hardfork?

Many prices have been extremely low and somewhat stable for even longer than the date you pointed out.

To say that anything (hardfork) has caused the steem price to remain stable is highly speculative, though I suppose that is the crux of all these types of conversations.

All I am saying after the hardfork, the downtrend stopped. It is a fact, and there is no "alternative fact"

Basically dark pool sounds like a peer to peer trades. Maybe we could create peer to peer trading hive community where people can exchange directly with one another. Doesn’t even have to be limited to Steem.

Similar to this: https://steemit.com/steem/@liberosist/wtb-steem

Maybe, but not really. What if I want to buy 1M steem @geekgirl?

Also that particular account you mentioned is in liquidation so that clearly didn’t work out. :)

Yes, probably wouldn’t work for large amounts.

acidyo would just dump on first seller with any price like he does daily

I am buying whoever is selling can sell to me. You included. I don't think you understood my point. I actually like sellers.

Intersting idea but it would require some sort of tx amount hiding in order to make it a dark pool right?

not really. It will require creation of an exchange for large block trading within our ecosystem. It has nothing to do with transaction amount.

Would a simple Escrow service not suffice to oversee any simple private trades directly between people ?

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Yeah. But it won’t scale. I am really hoping with this many smart developers around our chain we are a bit better than that. :)

Interesting, I do wonder how that could happen here on the chain, i.e. inner market while remaining "dark". I had heard the term before, I believe kraken.com was one of the first to add these for BTC back in the day but didn't look deeper into what exactly it was, maybe cause I don't have that kind of slippage problems when buying/selling crypto. :P

Good volume day for Steem indeed, if you follow some of the transactions you can see a lot of Steem going from Binance to huobi and bithumb, will be interesting to see the liquid steem on exchanges update that @penguinpablo posts after these recent moves.

Nice avatar btw, I was playing PokeOne on stream a year or so ago and failed catching it. :(

In its simplest form a dark pool is just an off market understanding and trade between two parties. Which is perfectly legitimate and happens in all kinds of markets. But of course, the term is coined to accommodate HFT, which is a completely different ball game. I am sure as our market mature, we will need something like this because there is no other way to execute large volume trade efficiently.

@zord189 did that banner for me! Damn! That's years back. He is still active and a great animation artist, solid steemian.

Cool! I'm actually following him, nice! Mine was created by @overkillcoin, he does some awesome sketches. :D

I know Kraken and Galaxy Digital both have OTC desks matching buyers and sellers. Seems like that would be a similar construct.

But by definition the order book of a dark pool is not public. I don't see it will be difficult to construct with this many active and very smart developers on this blockchain.

I think besides the obvious moving of money between bitcoin addresses, they behave in the same fashion.

Hmmm. Well I understand the reasoning behind these 'arranged' trades, but to not make them public, I am not sure about that 'here' :)

Good to see some content from you!

It is a standard procedure to settle trades in any financial market these days. As we mature, I am sure one of our smart people will design it. This is not a secret or anything. Most likely you as a investor use a dark pool too. Barklays Capital on the UK side are big into it.

Also blockchain is transparent, once the trade is complete it will be public obviously. It just during it is not public, the order book is not public..... therefore dark :) It's a cool thing, you use it whenever you trade likely, you just don't know that you use it.

How come you are awake? Its 5:30AM man! Are you training for a Marathon?

:)

.... once the trade is complete it will be public obviously.

This is the point I missed :)

In stocks trading, is this called an 'Iceberg'? A trade at an agreed price is being filled, and when complete becomes public?

My sleep is not great at present, and as it is the weekend I chose to get up instead of trying for a little longer. No marathons these days, my legs could not cope :)

Iceberg orders are bit different. They are typically a cool method. It is actually a dark pool order but displayed on a public exchange, but at a fraction of its original size (therefore, "iceberg"). So technically, they are not completely dark. They are really cool tools to set traps or test water :)

I see. An iceberg has tested the water of a few famous ships...

There are some interesting quirks to the trading game - seems you need to know more than what is visible to compete at the top :)

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@azircon Thanks so much for the support!

I think the dark pool would have been a better solution than Steemit Inc going to exchanges, unless what they were actually doing was moving stake to make it anonymous whilst keeping ownership.

We are still an incredibly small pond. So unless one or a group of the community developers provide a solution, no one external will be able to provide it or even interested in it. Something like this must be a very low priority to steeminc just because of the limited resources they have available. So the solution will come from within, from us, when we will feel the need for it.

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