thoughts about governance
from the chat in IRC (#gridcoin-social) today, between me and @m3rcos1ty:
- Erkan: governance: based on past stuff and e.g. polls favouring rich, ... I currently would say governance would not be doable
- Erkan: someone would have to need let go power first so that the governance can work
- Erkan: or the governing committee is just a puppet play
- Erkan: I told user1 some ideas about the governance
- Erkan: he tried to lure me with it
- Mercosity: ...yup, decentralized governance will put some peoples noses out of joint, but we've got to do it very soon as before we open up ..
- Erkan: he didn't give then feedback on what I criticized or what need to be done for it to work ;-)
- Mercosity: I think everyone except a few realise there is a desperate need ..
- Erkan: even if there is a need
- Erkan: you can't force it currently
- Erkan: it only will work when people like user2 and other whales give away their power
- ...
- Mercosity: I've been doing some research and no one seems to have come up with a really workable system .. people always seem to quote DAO (ETH) ..
- ...
- Erkan: but I see 2 things to do it:
- Erkan: 1. everyone can decide
- Erkan: 2. a group gets elected
- Erkan: --
- Erkan: 2. will corrupt over time
- Erkan: 1. the whales just distribute their wealth on more accounts to bypass that
- Erkan: so, the workable thing is 1.
- Erkan: but only when the whales prove they e.g. burn wealth or something
- Erkan: I haven't thought more about this all yet
- Mercosity: Funny, but everything is relative .. some people see us as whales ..
- Erkan: you know the !top ? ;-)
- Mercosity: Depends on which way you look at it .. biased towards crunchers or biased towards whales .. I believe we must respect the investors but the crunchers are the primary movers ..
- Mercosity: Yeah, it's just perception with new users who don't have a big stake .. in real terms I am a 'guppie' ..
- Mercosity: not even a 'minnow' ..
- Erkan: minnow, guppie, whales: wait until the team requirement falls
- Erkan: that will in my view have not a positive effect
- Erkan: will bring more distance between rich and not-rich
- Erkan: governance: in the end the blockchain only favours balance
- Erkan: everything we do so far is outside-action
- Erkan: and if the coin does not radically get changed we won't have true governance any time soon
- Erkan: important decisions like these: Low network (balance) stake weight participation solution?
- Erkan: are just talked about
- Erkan: for 1 year now
- Erkan: no action
- Erkan: outside action: as in when we want to democratize more it goes on by stuff we do outside of the chain
- Mercosity: That's where the voting mechanism comes in as it's weighted to advantage whales at this moment ..
- Erkan: yes
- Erkan: and to think about even changing that we need "approval of the whales"
- Erkan: and they normally wouldn't cut their own flesh
- Mercosity: Yup, that is the 'bottleneck' ..
- Erkan: so, the first practical governance model Gridcoin might dare to attempt
- Erkan: will involve a bias towards whales
- Erkan: otherwise they would not join the initiative
- Erkan: but then to pull away again the power from them is like the poll-system
- Mercosity: dats our dilemma .. we can't do anything without the whales approval ..
- Erkan: yeah, so we'd need a radical change in the chain
- Erkan: and that they also won't allow
- Mercosity: Mexican standoff?
- Erkan: so the governance model will be supported when it fits good into marketing plans and so
- Erkan: Mexican standoff: we are not that
- Erkan: we are already in the losing position
- Erkan: because whales HAVE the power
- Erkan: even if we could get al 99.99999999999999999% of Gridcoin users on the side of a governance model
- Erkan: we couldn't implement it by the poll which would decline it
- Mercosity: Maybe we need mutually assured destruction (MAD) governance model ..
- Mercosity: Crunchers stop crunching and close their wallets .. dead ..
- Erkan: well when all miners stop Gridcoin it will be just a PoS coin so it will survive, so to speak
- Erkan: people will go away because no science in it anymore
- Erkan: but for like a few weeks it will hold value
- Erkan: and in that time people can sell their GRCs
- Erkan: so miners have not really a big influence
- Erkan: given also:
- Erkan: that we assume everyone would really wanna a governance thinggy
- Erkan: we are interested
- Erkan: not sure who else is really
- Mercosity: I think maybe we need to define governance then so users understand what it is and what it will do for them ..
- Erkan: the average user will just care about GRC price
- Erkan: we hardcore guys care for more
- Erkan: longterm vs shortterm interests
- Erkan: I think all what I have said may sound negative
- Erkan: but I am also supporting governance
- Erkan: but I just think it would be wasted time without assurance of whales first
- Erkan: if no whale support: in the end starting all this governance will back fire
- Erkan: like people giving up hope on Gridcoin and showing really that's a whale-coin in the end
posted originally here
I want to get the information from this chat, but I'm not going to read this post. Not at all.
Could you give us a breakdown of the conversation?
If you were to try that in a meeting with me I would thank you after about a minute. You just freed up the rest of the meeting time for me to do something useful somewhere else. You didn't even introduce me what you mean with governance. Even a junior wouldn't try this.
How can people upvote this?
Plenty of people use bots to automate their Steemit upvoting. Like this one here:
https://steemvoter.com
They should give their bots more intelligence then. I don't really care about the bots but if this is the result I have to reconsider my opinion.
sorry erkan, i don't see steemit as a place to just dump pieces of an irc conversation. you could have extracted the things said, your point of view, compare some ideas, make proposals or anything. but just this ....
so i'm sorry if it's mentioned in the post, but whales have their positive side. they will most likely hodl. they got no weak hands and won't sell because of small inconveniences. so they earned their right to hold a lot of gridcoin and also have a right to decide where it goes.
I don't want to be negative but I think this kind of post is bad for steem. How about writing an Intro of what the post is about and what you mean by governance and maybe quote some of the important things said by other users instead of creating a chat log.
More incomprehensible chat excerpts. Fortunately, without beyondbitcoin tag, so fuzzy won't have to flag it.
Is this the way we want to have a proper discussion ? How is anyone supposed to read all that ? In normal business life I would say go and give me a summary of a that in a one pager :) sorry even if I would maybe agree with the topic (I don't know I did not read...) I can not because this is presented in a way that it simply is non digestible...