there is no point in arguing with telos. i tried to say that children are the product of their parents labor, until they can cogently advocate for themselves, and as parents they have the right to refuse to inject vaccines , of unpredictable origin , into their children, and telos accused me of wanting to kill children. so, while i admire your seemingly unquenchable desire to educate, even the most unwilling, i have debated with this guy at length and finally decided that some need to unlearn their indoctrination their own way. my efforts at least i'll no longer waste on the willing slaves. i hope to encourage you to move on. however you seem to be better at this than i . should you choose to continue, i applaud you, have at it.