Accountability for Flagging

in #flagging8 years ago

A recent bit of banter between a whale and the new dolphin in town has provoked a debate about what determines appropriate flagging and how the steemit platform should enforce rules on flagging.

I’m not about to take sides here.

While I disagree with @berniesanders reason for flagging @dollarvigilante’s post as he deemed it repetitive and below his standard of creative ability I’m also glad he was allowed to flag it for those reasons!

Why?

At present, the appropriate use of flagging is yours to determine. You get to decide what you consider right or wrong. In my eyes, this is the beauty of steemit!

No censorship!

A flag doesn’t hide your material completely, it just sets you back if you had been trending. In most cases, this is fair as the free market goes.

But there are some cases in which you might not consider it fair. You might for example post something controversial. If the first people to see are people who agree with you it should do well. At present, the steemit community discourages eachother from flagging material just because you disagree with it. But at present our community is small. When steemit reaches the masses, a lot of things could change.

Flags as a downvote

If your controversial post for instance is first met with opposition you might lose your chance to be recognised by those who are more like-minded.

Unlucky I guess

For this reason I suggest

Accountability

I’ve often seen flagged material with a respectful comment from the flaggers (often when the flagger is a dolphin or a whale) outlining their reasons for flagging. I believe these are the people who have a lot of respect for the platform. They don’t like to have to flag material, but see it as necessary to make steemit a place where original content can do well. But not everybody knows how to respect their fellow steemers.
The most recent post by dollarvigilante was flagged 100+ times and I couldn’t find a single comment giving their reason.

Reasons for flagging

I’m listing these reasons in order of what I have personally seen most based on the comments

  • Plagiarism
  • Tag abuse
  • Bots

Other reasons I have yet to see people excuse themselves with in the comments but I’m certain people have used as a reason

  • Title that makes me think I won’t like this IF I were to read it
  • Opinions I disagree with
  • You’re making too much money
  • You flagged my post so I flag yours!

Accountability

It is my belief that we should all be free to flag for whatever reasons we ourselves decide are appropriate. But just like in the real world, where we have freedom of speech, that freedom doesn’t protect you from my freedom to address you for what you’ve expressed.

There are two ways that I think steemers should be held accountable for their flagging.

  1. Compulsory comment before the flag can be applied
  2. A tab for flagged material

Compulsory comments

Some of the reasons outlined above as you can see will not be deemed by most steemers as appropriate reasons for flagging material. But telling newbies to have better flagging etiquette is going to get tiring.

There are a number of benefits

  • If your reason for flagging content was a stupid one, having to comment your reason might make you think twice as you type it and realise that this is stupid!
  • When somebody flags for reasons based on the title without reading the post, their comment can be responded to bringing their mistake to their attention and they can then choose to remove the flag.
  • Instead of somewhat censoring (but not completely) the content that maybe got into the wrong hands too soon, a compulsory comment will make the article active, which means there is still a chance for like-minded people to see it and bring it back to life.

A Flagged Tab

Compulsory comments alone though won’t solve the problem. Plenty of people are clever enough to come up with reasons other than the real one if they know the real one would be unpopular. So how can you tell when somebody who says

“I’m flagging for false information”

when what they really mean is

“I’m flagging every post by this account because they flagged one of my posts last month and I can’t get the stick out of my ass over it”?


Wouldn’t it be handy to check this flaggers page, go to their Flags tab and actually see that they’ve been abusing this steemer?!

How do you think the steemit community would react to this?

It certainly wouldn’t be encouraged!

And you could also see by the type of content they’ve been flagging if it’s just based on their overrated opinions then you can theoretically dismiss their flag.

Which brings me to a third option which seems a little less conceivable but I thought I’d include it as an idea just in case.

We can already ‘Hide’ certain bloggers posts.

What if we could also hide their flags?

Sort:  

I think mandatory comment is good idea. Perhaps when you flag there is are options

  1. to flag and comment spam
  2. Flag and comment nsfw
  3. Flag and comment tagging
  4. Custom flag type your reason

This will not raise cost of flagging for 3wideoy used reasons but we will still get a reason for berniesandersesque flags.

Forcing people to do stuff rarely works... Facebook has a huge radio box with 20 things to select when flagging if I'm not mistaken. Lol, this brings up a whole new potential world: #Flagtags.

Anyways, you might just end up with more comment spam, which is why I don't think they'll tweak it easily. Now, the option to ignore someone's flags IS a good idea. Even better would be able to score people and posts yourself. Have a parallel steemit world where you apply your own set of weights or multipliers to people. Just imagine that as a #feature.

Seems like it would be really difficult to do though..

That does sound simple. It could even be a different type of comment found in a seperate thread under another tab called flags

hi,

I listed this problem and your suggestions here in the comments;
https://steemit.com/steam-ideas/@luminousvisions/steam-ideas-voting-contest-which-is-the-best-idea-this-month-august-2016

together with many other #steem-ideas, so, people can vote for what they consider the best idea or the most urgent problem to be solved

once every month I will make a top-list of the previous month, in the hope to get some whale's attention and get the problems solved

cheers

Updated thoughts:

Each account holder could have the option to write their comment or use an automated comment they have typed themselves so that they only have to click it rather than type individual comments.

The main purpose is so that the flagger can be responded to, but another benefit would be that somebody cannot just create an account and start flagging material to cause damage to the steemit community without having any or comments that can be use to retaliate to protect the steemit community.

I agree that flaggers should give a clear reason why they flag a post. (Personally I've only flagged bots). A compulsory comment to me will not work since people will literally type "blablabla" and than flag. (unless if hat comment itself would be subject to flagging).

Hiding is only possible for people with very low reputation. The way the system works, a flag of someone with a lower reputation than you can't harm your reputation.

The pay-out can be harmed ofcourse, but we all saw the dollarvigilante post trending happily on, making a couple thousand $ despite the 100 flags.

Flagging etiquette is something this community will have to learn, and like all things, the system might need toget tweaked left and right.

I feel that flagging should never be because you do not agree with a post, but because it is abusive/illegal/plagiarising,...

Isn't it ironic that I've just got my first flag lol. Rep 7 so I guess you're right it won't have much affect. But there have been lots of cases where a dolphin has flagged content that was doing well without leaving a comment only to apologise after the payout for making a mistake in flagging it.

I don't mind so much the harm that a flag does to the payout. My concern is with this dilluted form of censorship. Of course it's not really censorship, but if you're unlucky, your post sinks through the cracks from a flag and those that might have liked to read it just don't come across it.

Flagging etiquette is indeed important, but as steemit expands to the masses I'm not convinced the newbies are going to understand its importance.

GREAT POST..THANK YOU...but here are two BULLIES Abusing the flag feature to try to control what THEY want you to say and do....that is called Fascism..

Community Needs to Gang up and FLAG Everything "Bacchist and BestOfTheRest" are Thugs and Bullies

"Bacchist" and "Bestoftherest" are users in Steemit and are whales where these two have decided to control the community, what they say and post. They are flagging everything they disagree with and trying to crush users.

The reality check is this activity is nothing more than what THUGS and Fascists do in a community. They have abused their trust in the community and it is time that users strike back and stop this flagging and crushing users whom they have posted they want to send a message to. DO not have free speech. Do not post what they disagree with. Do not post anything that questions Steem or Bitcoin - ever. Do not post anything that is Anti-Socialist or Pro-American.Fight back, track this user down and whack the bastard and this gang. Over one article, they suddenly removed my funds, removed the article, and then removed other articles not even related to Steem.

They then downgraded my Credibility rating from 40 to 6 in 2 hours. Guys, too bad many of you do not know about world history, but this activity is exactly the type of thing the NAZIS did to everyone in 1930 - 1933 when the NAZIS did not like what they said....they then beat people up...then they had them jailed..then killed....is Steemit a free and open community or is is controlled by these Bullies and Thugs which I just proved exist....

...send a message back to these two guys and crush these Bullies and flag their ass to zero to say STOP this...stop the hate and BS....or people like this will crash the community and Steem very soon....frankly for what I see, Steemit business model needs to be changed and fast before people like this destroy it.

Community Needs to Gang up and FLAG Everything "Bacchist" Has as a Thug and Bully....he is trying to beat up everyone who he disagrees with and he is flagging the same people over and over 24/7 like some nut case...

Compulsory comment before the flag can be applied

I don't agree with this, because I don't think we should incur any kind of cost (cognitive or otherwise) to downvote obvious spam. You do however give a good point that people should be able to reply to a flag directly. Perhaps they could set it up so that a flag can have it's own comment thread automatically if people object to it.

I think @dantheman's latest post about Google-style ranking could solve these problems. If someone is abusing their voting power, you can give them a negative weight vote on their profile. This should discourage abusive behaviour of any kind including downvotes.

A compulsory comment can be as short as 'bot/spam' and I don't see why the good bots can't be programmed to comment this. But yes, there needs to be a way to address a flagger, in case a mistake has been made.

I look forward to the new features dan talked about.

Good work and thanks for helping with my blog!

I hope your post does well
https://steemit.com/travel/@letsgetlost/amsterdam-from-the-water
It was fun making this video!

Good article Jeff. Nice picture!!LOL

I'm not Jeff by the way lol. You can find him @dollarvigilante

I don't know the answer, but I'm grappling with the question of whether or not having a lot of Steem Power (i.e. a whale) makes you more qualified to determine what content is good or bad. In some cases Steem Power is earned through participation in the system, and by posting quality content you are demonstrating your skill at contributing, which may be a quality that would indicate you also have good taste for rating the work others; however, this might not always be the case and not all Steem Power was earned this way, especially some of the early adopters who became whales as a result of getting in early or getting lucky.

Owners (whales) are qualified to where they want to distribute voting power. This first distribution year is all about getting voting power in the right hands.

It is a huge part luck I think. I don't think any whales got there just from luck, but I do think there are plenty of talented people on here who won't make it to dolphinhood until they get lucky. That is how the platform works and how most of the real world works too. There are plenty of people who work hard and make valuable contributions but only in the hope that those contributions will one day be recognised and valued.

Steemit is an excellent platform for that. But it is a lottery.

Apparently this is the issue for Reddit. That misinformation sometimes ends up getting voted up. :(

Interesting concept @beanz was just thinking about it... did a search & stumbled upon your post... I have a few ideas for steemit... wonder how we can get our ideas actualized? the more we improve the platform the more attractive it would be to future users! I know this is a very old post but I think its an important post maybe you should do another one about this topic! or would that be bad? I'm still new...

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