Teenage Mom and Baby 'Easy' Targets for MCFD: Pamela's Story -- Part II (FamilyProtection Series)

The government workers suddenly took the teenage mother's baby, two days before Christmas, 2014.

There had been no warning and no investigation.

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Read the first part of Pamela's story HERE ➽ ➽ ... No investigation Before Taking Teenage Mom's Baby: Pamela's Story -- Part I (FamilyProtection Series)
{ This is a true story that I (@canadian-coconut) was involved in. It showed me first-hand how corrupt the child protective system in BC, Canada can be, known here as MCFD or Ministry of Children and Family Development. }

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The baby's father, Joe, was staying with my family while we tried to figure out what was happening and how to get the baby back.

Pamela needed to talk to someone at MCFD to find out who was assigned as her Social Worker, let them know that her mother had kicked her out of her home and that she no longer could see her infant son.

The big question was ... WHY?

Why had Social Workers and Police suddenly showed up without any investigation or questions about her parenting abilities, and stripped all of her parental rights?

A Social Worker had taken Pamela's cell phone away from her at the initial contact on December 23rd, and they had never returned it. So I let Pamela make all of the phone calls from my house.

Offices were closed for Christmas and Boxing Day, and then for the weekend, so no help could be found. We knew that she would need a lawyer right aways, but the Legal Aid office was closed until after New Years Day, so she could not start an application.

Finally, on Monday, December 29th she was able to speak to her Social Worker on the phone. They had assigned the girl a Social Worker in a town half an hour away! Meanwhile there was an office in our town and she was a teenager who had just been kicked out of her vindictive mother's home. There was not even a bus route to go there. I told Pamela that I would get her there somehow.

The young mother who was grieving her absent baby, insisted on an appointment right aways at the office to talk to the Social Worker. The Social Worker kept saying that it was not necessary, and that they would arrange a visit in a week or so at her mother's house. But Pamela kept calling back and insisting that she needed to see her NOW!

At last the Social Worker relented and booked an appointment for her the next day, Tuesday, December 30th. An elderly woman who was a friend of Joe's family drove him and Pamela to the appointment.

I had been warned by a good friend of mine who had gone through hell with MCFD in the past, that Pamela and Joe MUST MUST MUST be at the very next Family Court date. She said that MCFD often will not inform parents of the Court Date. Family Court was always on Wednesdays, and the next one would be on December 31st. So we had already planned on heeding that advice and going just in case, even if they never gave notification.

Joe secretly recorded the meeting with the Social Worker, which I listened to afterwards. She did not explain why everything was happening. After a little while she came out and told them that tomorrow was a court date! She said that they were still working on the paperwork but that they would get a copy of it at the courthouse! AHA!

My friend had indeed given us accurate information! If Pamela had not strongly insisted on this visit, she would NEVER have been informed that she was supposed to appear in court on Wednesday, December 31st. This was to be her "First Appearance" where the Judge decides whether to grant the Order for MCFD to remove the child. They had removed the child BEFORE ever going to a Judge, and expect a Judge to enforce their decision. If Pamela had not been present, the Judge would have had to assume that she didn't care about her child, so he would have naturally grant the MCFD application.

Pamela STILL had not been given any reason for her baby's removal! The only thing mentioned was that the baby needed to be 'medicalled.' But the Doctor had confirmed in front of the Social Workers and parents that he saw no concerns about the baby's health. So what were their accusations? Pamela had NO IDEA! How can you defend yourself when you have no idea of what you have been accused?

My mind was spinning! It was hard to believe the behaviour that I was seeing was possible? What made these government workers think that they could ignore all laws and protocols when it comes to taking someone's child away from them?

Pamela had no lawyer. The Legal Aid office was not even open again until January 5th. We had the name of a good lawyer to ask if he would take her case, but of course he was on holidays.

I took Pamela and Joe to court that day. As we were walking in the door of the courtroom, the Social Worker handed her the legal paper with the accusations. They were only very minor issues listed. Pamela told me that they were not true. But even if they were true, I was stunned that they could be considered reason to remove a baby; especially when the mother had not first been made aware of the concerns or offered a chance to make improvements. The accusations were of a messy bedroom, and diapers not being changed often enough, and letting baby chew on pieces of food like Pizza.

The Judge adjourned the hearing so that Pamela could get a lawyer.

On the one hand this was good as she needed legal representation ... but on the other hand this was a 5-month old nursing baby that we were talking about! He was being force weaned and not allowed to be with his mother! The Judge did order visitation, but the first visit couldn't be arranged for another 5 days until a Visit Supervisor was available!

How are these types of delays acceptable?

We are talking about fragile babies and children being ripped away from their parents! The bond that was being forcibly broken between mother and baby was very damaging. It was atrocious!

The court date kept getting adjourned. Pamela finally had a good lawyer onboard, but he was already booked on the date. Then the Judge ordered that Joe had to find a separte lawyer of his own too, and that took time. Then his lawyer was not available on one of the dates, etc.

We helped the lawyers do their job by composing Affadavits of our own, with all the applicable facts. It took lots of time to compile everything along with all the proof, and gathering reference letters from people. We even had an ice storm put out our electricity right before a court date, and that almost delayed me being able to get things ready. We were up late some nights brainstorming our ideas and trying to put plans into motion.

Joe's parents came up with a plan. They knew a retired couple who were really well respected in the community where they lived and who were willing to help. That couple and Joe's parents, came down and met with Social Workers here and proposed that Pamela and Baby be both allowed to stay together in their home. The well-respected couple (former School Principal and Teacher) requested the Social Workers in their town to do a home study, and their home was approved as meeting MCFD standards. When Pamela went back to court, the request was made to the Judge to drop the whole thing and just give Pamela back her baby, BUT if he would not do that then place the mother and child together in this home.

The decision was FINALLY made on April 14, 2015 to have the mother and baby live together with this retired couple. Unfortunately, the Judge allowed Social Services to stay involved and check in on the situation, BUT the Judge did NOT grant the original request that MCFD made to seize custody of the child.

The lawyer was pleasantly surprised, because in his experience things did not usually go this well.

I remember to this day the look of surprise on the Social Workers face when the Judge did not grant her request. She was in shock that MCFD had lost!

The Social Worker almost always got what she wanted. She thought that this was an easy target, a helpless teenager with no support system; but she didn't count on a community coming together to help.

So Mother and Baby were finally reunited on April 14th, 2015.

Pamela left my house that day and moved 3 hours away to her new home with her baby.

This case is considered a WIN! This is better than most parents get when they go up against the corrupt system.

Yet, how can it be a true win after it took almost 4 months for the Judge to finally decide that MCFD should not have taken the baby in the first place?

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Addendum:
I lost track of a lot of what happened after Pamela moved out of my home. She decided that she didn't want to live in that couple's home anymore, and that she did not want to stay in a relationship with Joe. She moved out, and MCFD saw it as an opportunity to pounce again. Joe's family was no longer there to help her and I was not involved. This time Pamela lost custody of her baby. The baby was placed in Foster Care and then placed back with the grandmother again. As of April 2018, Pamela still does not have custody of her own child.

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(Names have been changed to protect those involved.)

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Follow @familyprotection on Steemit.
Governments around the world,
are using "Child Protection Agencies"
to take children away from loving families
and place them in foster care or group homes
or place them for adoption.
THESE FAMILIES NEED PROTECTING.

Share your own story and use the tag #familyprotection

TOGETHER LET'S STOP LEGAL KIDNAPPING

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Thank-you @canadian-coconut for submitting this post with the #familyprotection tag. It has been UPVOTED by @familyprotection and RESTEEMED TO OUR Community Supporters.

"Child Protection Agencies" are taking children away from their loving families.
THESE FAMILIES NEED PROTECTING.

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This is the main reason all governments should be shut down, locked up, and never opened again. This case appears to be a kidnap; plain and simple. That is a capital offense and the socialist workers should be tried, and if found guilty, given the death penalty. There is too much of this nonsense going on and it is getting worse. Most people have little recourse and it is difficult to get an attorney to fight for his client. And when an attorney does do a good job, his own children can be in jeopardy as one attorney lost two of his own children. Shut the government down; all of it, because it is too destructive.

This post will be featured on Jane's CHAOS Show this Friday in our @familyprotection series.

Thank you Linda for continuing to bring the unjustices to light.

Let's Stop the Legalized Unlawful Kidnapping of Children!

Ughhhh, four months to decide the baby shouldn't have been taken! How sad that this is considered a win- if the social worker had faced repercussions for her unlawful, abominable, and in my opinion evil action- that might have been some consolation.

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exactly. They were never reprimanded for their terrible behaviour. They never face punishment or at least being fired for destroying families like this.

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Here in the Philippines, unlawful decisions and orders had been rampant. Especially for those abused children, there must be a courageous and brace person to speak up and defend for them. We will not let the fear of every children speak more. Thank you @canadian-coconut for your heart towards protecting every families. Hoping to be part of this matter..

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hopefully there is no trafficking of children again. and for those who do so to stop doing it again

after reading this post, i'm quite angry to the legal kidnappers, i didn't know that without any investigation they can take our own child and get separated from us. what a shame to the government taking children without any further investigation, is that how democracy works? grrrrrrrrrr

I think all government employee's should be held accountable for their actions.
Charges should be laid for failure to uphold the parents human rights.
Keep up the great work familyprotection group!
Bless you all...

Pamela was very lucky that you were there, that you were able to help her defend her right to be a mother. Unfortunately, such cases are not uncommon in many States. Most often, those who cannot protect themselves, do not know the intricacies of legal procedures, do not have the means to consult a specialist suffer from such arbitrariness. Therefore, corrupt officials manifest themselves in all their rudeness, cruelty and lawlessness. I am happy to know that this time they failed to do their job. As a mother, I want to thank you for helping mom and baby reunite. Reading this story I can't hold back tears. I can't imagine the horror of someone breaking into your house and taking away your dearest child. This is the height of blasphemy and cruelty.

It's a scary story @canadian-coconut, but then again, Canada had the “Duplessis orphans” affair…

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Shocking and sadly not surprising.
There can be only one reason this is not owned by the Canadian gov: Some people responsible are still alive, perhaps even in power positions, and these things are still going on in similar fashion.

How can the Canadian people allow their rulers to continue to sweep this dirt under the rug?

So close, yet so far. I was really hoping this would have a happier ending. I wonder if her mother ever relented and at least let her see her child.

I was so glad to read that Pamela got united with her baby, but then the very next thing I read is that again she got separated which is very sad. Pamela is a very brave girl being a teenager herself and fighting this out must have not been easy for her at all. For all those kind souls who supported her came as angels in her life. I wish and pray for her that she gets united back with her baby soon.
As for the MCFD is concerned thank god they could not win this time. I wish more and more people stand up against this evil and come out so strong that they can never have an opportunity to get away with their dirty tricks :(

What a heartbreaking scenario. Social care systems accross North America and Europe have a lot to answer for. The whole system is corrupt. Their training is paper based, which is something that really needs to change given that they need to spend more time understanding each individual family. Not to mention all the other levels of wrong doings. I truly feel for the mother and child.

Thank god it worked out in the end. This story is so sad to read, and it Really highlights how CPS are totally uninterested in truth or any semblance of human compassion. I watched a deposition where it was revealed that as many as 50% of CPS agents commit perjury to ensure their case goes through.

This needs to stop ASAP, no one should ever have to go through what Pamela and child has had to endure..

Together we are strong
Thank you @canadian-coconut and @markwhittam for what you do for others..

It never seems to fail to stun me. They are so deceitful and full of scheming and lying. They will always look for a time to pounce. A family ruined , and for what? Much love to the mother what a hardship to deal with.

Once again we see how the rights of children and their parents are violated, the fact of not having a lawyer in a universal way, the nation is in the responsibility of awarding one, as it is going to defend itself of what they accuse, if it does not have a professional by your side. The most surprising thing is that after 4 months she could finally be with her daughter, four months of agony, worry, anxiety and death for her daughter, but she got what many can not. Thank you for supporting @psicmarynes and me, continuously to bring food to those children who do not have the same luck as Pamela's daughter and must live on the street, fleeing the system. Thank you

THis needs to end. Parents are the guardians of their children not the state. It's getting sorted now. Huge steps are being taken. I know at lot more than most and it is totally evil. More than you know.

I had never heard of this outrageous nonsense. I don't get it. What is their goal for taking children from their parents? There must be a gain for them.

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The more children they take, the more money they make from government funding.

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That's what I assumed.

It seems incredible to me how these people are not condemned for all the harm they cause when separating children from their families, and that even when it is shown that they do not have to take the children, no investigation is opened or they are dismissed to leave of causing so much damage. This system is full of hate and corruption. Finally Pamela managed to be her baby, but after 4 long months, separated for no reason, then this is where we can see that these people do not watch over the safety and welfare of children. Thanks @canadian-coco for the support you have given me and @marynes5 to bring food to the children who live in the streets, to those who do not have resources and who are also victims of the system and therefore have to leave to the street to find what to eat. Once again thank you very much for the help you also give to those who need it most.

This is so sad and tears at my heart. Why does this evil have to continue without a normal checks and balances to take it down. Thank God we have @familyprotection. But folks go through way to much and it is harassment and criminal. It amazes me the double standards out there. You look at woman wrong and it is sexual harassment yet the more evil CPS stull is not addressed. Hmmm May be I should get a job with the CPS and be a spy. LoL I certainly would make more money than my work as a piano player. lOL Thanks @canadian-coconut for exposing evil and spreading the truth.

Wow. I can't believe that she was without her baby for 4 months and the judge said they shouldn't have taken it to begin with. If it had gone in the right order, maybe she never would have lost custody. That is so sad for her and knowing that she is currently without her child. I can't imagine having my 5 month old nursing baby taken from me - how painful for both the mommy and baby! Being accused of having a dirty room and not changing the diapers enough - I'm pretty sure every parent would be guilty of that!! So crazy. I am glad you were able to offer help and resources.

Oh @canadian-coconut, it must be heart wrenching to rehash these events into a blog post. The corruption is thick and pure evil. Will Ivy ever be responsible for the harm she's done. So much harm done. A tragic violent life. Which i bet leaves mom, dad, and baby scarred for life. How can one live well in this state. Unbearable such non-sense and harm done. It is tireless work to bring this to light. Bless you sweet woman. For what you stand for. I pray for a much better way. Damn! All the spam comments here are unreal. So annoying.

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thank-you ... and yeah, way too much spam!

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You're welcome And, WOW 🌸🌸🌸 Thanks so much for your blessings @canadian-coconut. Didn't see that coming. It really means a lot. Have a wonderful sunny Sunday 💚💙

Another sad child protection story.... When in some cases it's actually we parents who need to protect our children from child protection /MCFD and we can't! ☹️

So amazing to read success stories! This post was upvoted and resteemed by #thethreehugs.
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What a sad, sad story. CPS has way too much power and immunity with no transparency - no accountability for the damage they are causing children/families. And the family court system is very corrupt as well.

So happy that this mother had you to help her and support getting her baby back. These parents truly have no voice and definitely these children have no voice. It's only by community support and people like you that intervene that they are have a chance against this injustice.

These stories are sooooo prevalent now - people need to be aware that this is happening and far too many don't until they find themselves in the same situation.

So sorry that this happened again to this mom. I do hope that she gets herself together and comes back fighting for her baby.

Wow! I really stress in this story of yours... Wait?! My question is, why the MCFD wants to take the baby if the baby's parents can take care of it? I think it's unlawful? If my understanding of the story is right.

If so, it's offensive to the parents! Because they are the parents of the child! And the child is still innocent and needs parenting. It is not fair to take the child away from his or her parents. My chest seems to be tight in this story and it's hard to breathe!

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I know. The general public is told that they are there to protect children. But I have seen with my own eyes more than once that it is not the case. The Social Workers that I keep hearing stories of in my town are evil people.

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I get it now! The mother is still minor am I right? Still young... But even that she's a minor, she's still the parent! They have their rights to the baby! Besides, in my opinion, PAMELA's parents can help her with the baby even the father of the baby.

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My head is spinning! What kind of brain they have! What are they thinking? What kind of humanity they are doing and the future of the child is affected. This is insane! I can not believe that's how they think of other people!

Thank you so much for sharing. It still amazes me that they call just before the holidays, and they still have their 'safety plan'.
My heart breaks that she has now become the target of CPS. In my own experience, I know that i will be flagged for the rest of my life. At the age of 16, I can only imagine the fear. To constantly be under the watchful eye of this evil system.
It's such a blatant misuse of the system, people using CPS as a threat/weapon..."you dont do this...i will call CPS". Ripping apart families.
I am so glad that you were there to be the hand up. to be the support of creating a healthy momma, and a healthy family.
Thank you for sharing, and for the update. My heart goes out to you all.

That's weird! It shows clear flaws in check and balance system. Social workers are not usually helpful. I am saying this of my personal experience. I have also seen that social works discriminate on the basis of language or color, when they are not monitored.

Anyway, nice to meet you
@canadian-coconut
I am glad to find @familyprotection I will share my thoughts and some recent researches about family and child protection, child abuse, consequences of abuse on human brain (a topic I am highly interested in), and other health-related topics.

It is very sad. yes indeed the corrupt system could destroy everything we love. But at least you have worked hard that far. How it can happen in modern world. that big question will hard to find an answer @canadian-coconut. Thank you for sharing this. i could be a good lessons for all of us in the future

best regard

It was interesting reading about Pamela. Thank you for an interesting content.

Thanks for sharing this family protection post .
I appreciate your life.keep it up my friend.

Such terrible acts bringing tears to my eyes.

MFCD were just watching for Pamela to make a wrong move and which she did by moving out of Joe's house. The government has since be bias and wanted custody so they can easily give the baby.

The protection of the family is paramount, how can we be calm if any members of the family are threatened

I is great to know you are championing the victims of our Canadian system!

Are its good rule I think its not a good

wow very excellent familyprotection information

Great post friend the work you do for children and protection for families is very good and complete continues like this, all the success in the world.

wow,really very great post..dear.i am first time comment your post.because this time i found your adress and doing comment your blog.family protection very important thing for every children.a good family parents take care doing her children and all time protect their children... every children very innocent and pure.so,every family member should be very careful her child for family protection.your thought very best dear...you sharing good tropic thing in your blog.a good family protection may a children great future success in her life..thanks to sharing for your good post dear.. friend @canadian-coconut... best of luck for your great work and take care yourself..very well done..

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wow nice... thank you.

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welcome..my friend.. @apkdl

wow very excellent familyprotection information

This problem is common nowadays and the government is not taking necessary steps to put things in the right place.

To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvote this reply.

wow,really very great post..dear.i am first time comment your post.because this time i found your adress and doing comment your blog.family protection very important thing for every children.a good family parents take care doing her children and all time protect their children... every children very innocent and pure.so,every family member should be very careful her child for family protection.your thought very best dear...you sharing good tropic thing in your blog.a good family protection may a children great future success in her life..thanks to sharing for your good post dear.. friend @canadian-coconut... best of luck for your great work and take care yourself..very well done..Great post friend the work you do for children and protection for families is very good and complete continues like this, all the success in the world.

Great post dear @canadian-coconut
I really love happy life...and DQmNRSvX5A2vdBndsiyuyCY2JWzFfqFqBRVVZTnG9s4zRwK_1680x8400.jpg

wow really good story in this story i like the character of pamela i was so sad when i read that parmela had no lawyer.And the officer character is also good after all i read the full story and i upvoted and resteemed this post....i like some lines of this story which are.....
The lawyer was pleasantly surprised, because in his experience things did not usually go this well.
I remember to this day the look of surprise on the Social Workers face when the Judge did not grant her request. She was in shock that MCFD had lost!
thanks....for sharing with us thats great post....Thank you

The protection of the family is paramount, how can we be calm if any members of the family are threatenedGreat post friend the work you do for children and protection for families is very good and complete continues like this, all the success in the world

Good job. But I didn't understand anything..............lol

thank you for information his friends, pity mother his certainly very art not meet the baby her, I pray semuga mother and baby his can together again

Thats a worst case scenario. Very bad. Thank you @canadian-coconut for the truth here on the blockchain what nobody have the power to delete this truth after writing it online. I hope some more people will be strong. resteem

Hmmm, it's easy to slip into anti-institutional mode and hate social services and/or grandmother on account that somebody claims she's a vindictice bitch. But it is superficial, the update to the story provides a clue that those claiming young mother cannot provide a stable home to her baby might have been on to something. I understand relationships breaking up, but she had an arrangement that allowed her to be with her baby and she opted out. Sorry, she lost me on that one.

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Sure, she had her flaws and was likely to be immature given her age. But none of that changes the fact that they initially took her baby without any investigation. And they weren't going to even let her have a say in court. Even the worst mass murderer gets to defend himself and have his say in court.
MCFD gave her less rights than the worst of criminals would get. Just because some teenage moms have in the past shown themselves not to be good mothers, does NOT give them the right to assume that she is guilty without even the most basic of an investigation. Why did they have to constantly break the laws and guidelines just to get her baby? (Read part I if you missed some of the things they did.

It never seems to fail to stun me. They are so deceitful and full of scheming and lying.

your post is very nice,and wonderful photo graphy, i like your post,

I was waiting for thats type of story thanks for sharing with us @canadian-coconut i really enjoyed it before few days i read the story about kidnapping of child and surviving of child ..and its also have @familyprotection tag and on that post no body can vote the post link is....https://steemit.com/familyprotection/@abdt/haunting-story-from-child-who-survived-kidnapping
can you spen some time to read it i hope you like it....

@canadian-coconut..... This is great effort from you that stablish a sign"TOGETHER LET'S STOP LEGAL KIDNAPPING ". Yet another shocking and disturbing abuse of power. I find it difficult to comprehend why a mother would visit this level of scrutiny and abuse of parental rights upon their own daughter. Together if we work I think it will be reduced.spcial thanks to you such an important role.

Wow great social awarness writing.i read your post ,very good story mam>

A psychologist named Penelope Leach who is his books, sold, the terms shown to children in the second year, four years is impossible for the mother. He added that if you sing a child's song from the mother one night, then the child will experience a disturbance that can last a long time.

Psychologists also mention that the mother's children will make the child grow late. Still Controversy Who's the Most Worthy Parenting After divorce, mom and dad will live apart.

Children singing automatically will spend time at home with one of them. Penelope stresses the importance of building a bond of love. The reason that the mother has a major role in parenting while the father only gets the role of "reserve" to become a parent and is still controversial. In a new book, Family Breakdown, Penelope explains how children will receive something bad from their parents' divorce cases. He added that so far only applies to see what is fair for parents.

Not the best for children. Parental replacements for a week are considered the most appropriate for parents, but this is fair for children. Binding of Children with the Equal Father The Importance of Maternity Bonding Some psychological cases reveal that the mother's children will hamper their growth, the fathers can not accept it. Representatives from New Fathers 4 Justice say that a night's rest with father may be as important as possible.

The bond between father and son is as important as the bond between mother and father. Children who are toddlers may not be able to speak or express clearly what they want. She may also not be able to answer if asked more with mom or dad. Role and divert mother and father to toddler's rich child is just as important.

The story is very beautiful and very wonderful
You are a good person

Las burocracias en todos los países del mundo crecen en forma desproporcionada e invaden las libertades y los derechos de sus ciudadanos, con poca o ninguna sensibilidad a las necesidades del conglomerado social , del que, gracias a nuestros impuestos, son pagados sus salarios.
El caso que nos comentas es triste pues como tu lo mencionas, los lazos familiares de un menor de meses de nacido se rompen y el daño psicológico que en el futuro pueda sufrir el menor a consecuencia de esta separación son indeterminables.
Felicidades por el apoyo que brindaste a unos padres en problemas y por tu post,
Un saludo desde México.
Te sigo.

parmela this story is really very sad. . When the judge encounters social workers without approving her request, it is really sad to feel sorry for me ..Family protection is a very important thing for every child. . Thank you so much dear @canadian-coconut for sharing such a beautiful story with us. .

Wonderful story.i appreciate your life.thanks for sharing family protection..
Resteemit

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Beautiful story but touching, thanks for sharing @canadian-coconut

Great post friend the work you do for children and protection for families is very good and complete continues like this, all the success in the world.Wonderful story.i appreciate your life.thanks for sharing family protection.

a very moving story, I am very angry to read this story, I can not imagine a baby separated from his mother, where we (the Indonesian) even the government is trying all the way so that children can be with kelurganya.ben truly beyond the humanity fair, hopefully no more who fared like pamela

@brutledge thought you may find this interesting ♡ much love

Great post sir
it's informative and helpful
thanks for sharing

That's a really sad story for us. They will never fill their terrible of life. The children need their freedom. They need their family. Thank you for informing and sharing us. I know , this post really touch everyone heart. Love you mam

.very good post, I really like to read your post, because you are really good heart and spirited helper and heart angel, thanks my best friend thanks to my reading your post my heart moved to help others

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.hi my friend is very posting you, because you are very noble heart, like to help fellow, thanks for you have taught very good thing for us all

Great informative post
thanks for you valuable post sir