Familial pride

2 months ago
60 in ethics

You should be more proud of your daughter if she's a hooker than if she's a "public" school teacher.

You should be more proud of the cousin who's a meth manufacturer than the one who's a cop.

As long as neither of them commit theft, aggression, or fraud.

The hooker and meth cooker don't automatically violate anyone's life, liberty, or property the way the kinderprison teacher and the cop do. There's nothing in those first two careers that necessitates it, while there is when you choose the life of tax junkie and archator.

Yeah, I know, it's a painful truth to face, but it's still the truth.

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66
  ·  2 months ago

I strongly disagree.

You should be proud of your daughter because she is your daughter!

What she does for a living is irrelevant.

If my daughter was a cop, I couldn't be more proud.
If my daughter was a prostitute, I couldn't be more proud.
If my daughter was a politician, I couldn't be more proud.
If my daughter was a cleaner, I couldn't be more proud.
If my daughter was a parent, I couldn't be more proud.
If my daughter was a lawyer, well there are some limits... :-)

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60
  ·  2 months ago

If your daughter were a mass murderer or a hired assassin who didn't care if her targets were bad people?
Being a cop is choosing a life of violating others- just like a mass murderer. You can love the person and not be proud that they choose to harm other people in exchange for money.

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66
  ·  2 months ago

I have a different view of what it means to be a cop.
I should also point out that I don't live in the US, which is probably why I have a different view on police.

I should also point out that I spent 4 years in the police as a non-sworn member. (so I worked in an office) so I have a good understanding of what they are like behind closed doors also.

We have some bad cops here, there is no denying that. Be we also have a lot of really good cops, who do really good things.

If my daughter harmed people, no matter what job she chose, then I would be disappointed in her.

You spoke of a meth cook not harming anyone, but their product does. It kills people. I have seen first hand the effects of that sort of things on people, families and communities.

My first week in the police force was marked by the murder of a child by her caregiver, because he was high on meth.

Even today, if you talk to any of the cops involved in that investigation, you will see the pain in their eyes.

I know nothing I say will ever change your mind, and your experience of the police is probably very different from mine, but you do need to understand that at least where i live, the police are not the monsters you imagine them to be.

And if where you live, they are the monsters you imagine them to be, then I feel very sorry for your society.

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60
  ·  2 months ago

Are the cops paid through "taxartion"? Then they are thieves.

Do they ever enforce even one "law" which violates the individual right of self ownership? (you know they do) Then they are thugs.

There can be no such thing as a "good cop", even though there are "nice" ones, and sometimes even bad guys do good things. And that doesn't change anywhere on the planet. Period.

It's not "my society", it is the universal ethical reality. Whether you accept it or not. #CopsAreScum

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66
  ·  2 months ago

Are the cops paid through "taxation"? Then they are thieves.

I am paid through taxation, so does that make me a thief also? I pay my taxes, i do contract work for government agencies, therefore the money I get is from taxation. So I'm stealing from myself?

I don't agree that taxation is theft. Taxation is the price you pay for being part of the country, like any club or organisation. It's your dues.

I can see where that money goes. Not all of it goes where i think it should go, but I am not the only one who is allowed to have an opinion on that. So some of it goes where other people think it should go.

The cops enforce laws that are passed by the government. The government is elected by the people to manage and enact laws to govern the country. It's a system called democracy.

It's not perfect. it's not even all that good. but it is much better than no system of government or laws (and law enforcement). Somalia is a good example of what the world looks like with no government.

The idea that we would all 'just get along' is so incredibly wrong. The strong would prey upon the weak, as they do now, but without laws and enforcement there would be no-one to protect the weak and no consequences for those preying upon the weak.

Perhaps your opinion is coloured by your experience of dealing with police, and that has not been a good experience for you. I know of others who felt the same way, until they began to interact with the police here and see what they were really like.

To say 'all cops are scum' is like saying 'all Americans are fat, ignorant, arrogant arseholes' (and I don't count you in that number). Sure, some of them are, but I know a good number of them who are not.

Perhaps you just need the opportunity to meet and interact with some good cops.

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60
  ·  last month

You may not be a thief, but you willingly and knowingly receive stolen property. What would you call it?

You don't have to agree that "taxation" is theft. Reality doesn't depend on your agreement. "Taxation" means property (money) is taken from people who would rather not give it up- and they are threatened with violence if they refuse to pay, and will be murdered if they refuse long enough. So, it is theft, even if you would willingly pay, IF you paid "taxes", which you don't. No government employee ever "pays taxes". That some people would rather keep their own property, and aren't allowed to, makes it theft. If it were voluntary, no "law" would be required- people could just send the money to government of their own free will. That a "law" is required shows that it isn't voluntary, which shows the nature of "taxation".

Club dues are voluntary; no matter where you live, you decide to join or not. You aren't automatically enrolled, and forced to pay, just because of where you were born and because you didn't decide to abandon your property, your friends, and your family to move somewhere else where a different gang steals from the residents.

Yes, some of the stolen money even goes toward things I would pay for voluntarily, if given the choice. I am not so arrogant that I believe my desire to have a park or a library somehow entitles me to rob others to pay for it. If someone doesn't want to pay for a library, I don't want them to be forced to do so even if it means I don't get to have a library, or that I would have to pay more. Anything else is completely unethical.

Democracy is just mob rule. It is evil when the opinions of 99.99% of the population is allowed to violate the rights of the rest. You may like it, and I wouldn't prevent you and those who agree to play the game from doing so- but leave those who would rather not play out of it. And don't demand that they leave the area.

Somalia is not an example of "no government"- as statists keep wishing it were. It is an example of externally imposed governments (a long line of them) having destroyed the society (yes, government and society are opposites). You might want to read The Law of the Somalis to get that straight.

No one I know of is claiming that without government (more accurately, The State) everyone would just get along. Anarchy is no guarantee that some won't violate and molest others; government is a guarantee that they will. Would you seriously allow someone to "prey upon the weak" if there were no "laws" forbidding it and telling you it's someone else's job to protect them? Statism is amoral and unethical if that's the case.

I haven't really had any bad personal experiences with cops. I don't have to have been murdered to recognize that murder is wrong. I have interacted with several cops over the years, and some were nice. But, as pointed out above, none can be good- it is an impossibility due to what their "job" entails.

To say "All cops are scum" is not at all like saying anything about "all Americans", but is exactly like saying "All rapists are scum" and for the exact same reason- because it is about behavior, not the person. If you believe there can be "good cops" you would have to argue that rapists can also be good people. Are there "good rapists"? If so, then I don't know what your idea of "good" entails. Same with cops.

I'll let you have the last word, if you care to respond.

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66
  ·  last month

Nesting limit reached on your last comment.

Thank you for allowing me the 'last word'. (although it doesn't have to be).

I have to say, your world is a sad and unpleasant place, and I'm glad I don't live in it.

In my country what ultimately happens when you don't pay your taxes? (and this is really scary) I thought similar stuff to you - that the government will stomp on you with big boots. but as I found out when my wife was working for the Inland Revenue Department, their position is - 'we can't actually force you to pay taxes'. So if you don't pay, they just shrug their shoulders and move on.

In terms of compliance, their goal is to get the big companies to pay their share, and if the smaller fish are not paying their taxes, then find out why.

I was astonished when I found out that I don't actually have to pay taxes.
And yet i still pay taxes, because I understand and accept the reasons for them.

So my 'last word' would be that I disagree with your arguments. Not because I am stupid or naive, but because my life experience, situation and outlook is different.

I'm assuming you live in the US, and from what I have seen and heard of life there, I can fully understand why you think and feel the way you do. It is not a country I would willingly chose to live in.

But the experience of a US citizen is not the experience of everyone else, and I would encourage you to travel beyond your borders and see how the rest of the world lives with your own eyes, before branding us as 'all the same'.

The word after the last word, is yours :-)

68
  ·  2 months ago

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39
  ·  last month

Damn straight! At least then she wouldn't be a dirty commie!!! Instead, a young entrepreneur.