I ran across this Russian chart (wish I could remember who to give credit) which I added a bit to for an upcoming Hollywood presentation. Note that Graphene chains are off the charts compared to the industry leaders. EOS will blow even Graphene away. So there's no contest, really.
Tezos is the real threat. EOS likely will sacrifice security for performance but that could give it an edge over Ethereum which currently has neither. Tezos could end up having both and it launches at the same time as EOS. The only weakness of Tezos that I see is that it requires too much esoteric knowledge to develop for it but this can change over time and Ethereum is just as difficult to develop for.
I've heard about it and looked in a little, though either don't have enough of a technical knowledge foundation to fully see the implications, or they just hadn't really publicized too many details...
is there anything in particular you've read on it and would recommended to get a better grasp of the project and how it may affect the game?
Functional programming languages like OCaml are better for producing secure smart contractions. @dantheman favors Wren last I checked so if he is going with that then he favors performance over security. The design of EOS seems geared for performance. That said you can get security with performance but it is very hard to write bug free code. We really have to give him credit for producing Graphene which relatively speaking is more bug free than most code produced. But the problems come when people write smart contracts without being experts at writing secure code and this is where OCaml and Tezos will shine because security comes first.
may need to dig in to further my technical knowledge. I did read the Whitepaper, though don't know enough of the technical distinctions to see all the advantages - or rather, the implications as to in what ways these improves upon blockchain tech may be most beneficial for upcoming applications.
as such, that's one advantage I do see Ethereum having in the space, as their marketing is pretty good and alot of the dApps coming out are straightforward on the front-end usability, without having to know the technical back-end particulars. not sure if Tezos is focused strictly on the tech right now, or what their gameplan is for implementation and strategic development of simplified applications on the front-end. same for Tauchain. though suppose the tech gotta come first - and if it's that good, may inevitably catch the interest of those who can expand it out and grow the vision for it's integration into commerce and society...
EOS will have the network effect though. It has a big community from Steemit to Bitshares and more. So the ecosystem is the second biggest next to Ethereum itself in my opinion. Tezos will not have a community and will have to create one from the ground up which can take months or years. It will not in my opinion be for 2 years before we see what Tezos could be but I expect it to be big like Ethereum.
Thank you so much for this post. Perhaps you can help me understand something. I am becoming more and more savvy about the underlying blockchain tech, but I am finding a disparity between the functionality of the tech and the value of the coins of the company. In this case, ETH. How is ETH valuable? It won't really serve any purpose, and there are better, more evolved, more elegant cryptos coming, like Tezos and BosCoin. Ideas? Suggestions?
Ethereum was never built for the purpose of ETH being a cryptocurrency - rather, it was built as platform upon which to build decentralized apps. Ether is essential to run processes on the blockchain - whether a transaction, dApp, or smart contract. thus, it's valuable because it's an essential resource for use of the blockchain, which the market has determined as valuable because of its functionality...
The world of blockchain and multitudinous applications to which it can be applied is just beginning. It will be a fun ride to see it occur. The internet and now this. Hope to profit by this new phenomenon.
@rok-sivate I'm a developer and make some apps and dapps. I don't see the gas price as an issue since this is not connected to the Ether price ... it is calculated depending on how much data needs to be proccsed. I had an issue before with high gas prices ... but this has more to do with the development of the dapp then the price of Ether.
First, at the time of this comment, the transaction cost of sending someone ETH is 0.00042 ether (3.75 USD cents). As you know, Ethereum transaction cost (regardless if sending Ether or DAPP usage) is derived not based on ETH price but on gas. So, if ETH price doubled today, the cost of sending Ether to my friend or a merchant would remain right around 3.75 USD cents. Same goes for DAPP operation costs.
Vitalik replied on Matus Lestan's reddit post (which you linked in your article). He explained that the fee is high because this function of the DAPP (profile creation) is coded "highly suboptimal". It shouldn't cost 3.7m gas to create a profile. That’s the issue — the DAPP in question isn’t optimized.
You also linked the gas price chart in your article -- https://etherscan.io/chart/.... Notice on that chart the Ethereum network transaction cost (gas price) is trending down, and remains low. I should emphasize this: The cost of sending ether / running DAPPs is not increasing; it’s actually going down. This is due to (1) more miners joining pool and (2) free market gas prices which is not controlled by miners; it’s determined by free market between Ethereum users / DAPP developers max gas price and gas minimum gas price is set by miners. It’s not controlled by any one party. It’s complex, but it’s smart and scalable, and for the every day Ethereum DAPP user (e.g. Coinbase user trying to send a friend some Ether), it can be abstracted / behind the scenes.
Again, it’s important to understand how gas price (i.e. the cost of operating or using a DAPP) is decoupled from ETH price. I don't foresee Ethereum scaling issues in the foreseeable future. The main challenge will be for DAPP developers learning how to use the Ethereum IDE / libraries and best practices to better develop efficient DAPPS / get their costs of operation economical.
Though if I were to take a guess, I'd say it's simply market forces at work - no asset value rises indefinitely that fast. ETH has had a HUGE price increase over the last month - it's almost surprising it hasn't had a deeper retracement - though perhaps the corrective wave is just flatter. Inevitably, with all the developments taking place in the Ethereumsphere, price shall continue for another upward wave sooner or later...
I ran across this Russian chart (wish I could remember who to give credit) which I added a bit to for an upcoming Hollywood presentation. Note that Graphene chains are off the charts compared to the industry leaders. EOS will blow even Graphene away. So there's no contest, really.
Look forward to Dan's new Project!
Excellent post! I like your work My friend
thank ya :-)
I'm giving away 1 ETH, check my blog for details
https://steemit.com/ethereum/@captainbluff/giving-away-1-ethereum-if-you-can-guess-the-price-on-may-29th-11-50-pm-et
That is exciting!
Tezos is the real threat. EOS likely will sacrifice security for performance but that could give it an edge over Ethereum which currently has neither. Tezos could end up having both and it launches at the same time as EOS. The only weakness of Tezos that I see is that it requires too much esoteric knowledge to develop for it but this can change over time and Ethereum is just as difficult to develop for.
https://www.tezos.com/
Hi Dana!
I agree...and I'm also looking at BosCoin who partnered with Humaniq...
A lot of interesting times ahead!
I've heard about it and looked in a little, though either don't have enough of a technical knowledge foundation to fully see the implications, or they just hadn't really publicized too many details...
is there anything in particular you've read on it and would recommended to get a better grasp of the project and how it may affect the game?
Functional programming languages like OCaml are better for producing secure smart contractions. @dantheman favors Wren last I checked so if he is going with that then he favors performance over security. The design of EOS seems geared for performance. That said you can get security with performance but it is very hard to write bug free code. We really have to give him credit for producing Graphene which relatively speaking is more bug free than most code produced. But the problems come when people write smart contracts without being experts at writing secure code and this is where OCaml and Tezos will shine because security comes first.
Read the Tezos position paper, whitepaper, and other resources. These guys know what they are talking about and other than Tauchain Tezos is really the main project I was looking at.
https://tezos.com/static/papers/white_paper.pdf
https://tezos.com/static/papers/language.pdf
Their smart contract language is based on OCaml not Javascript like with Solidity.
thanks, Dana.
may need to dig in to further my technical knowledge. I did read the Whitepaper, though don't know enough of the technical distinctions to see all the advantages - or rather, the implications as to in what ways these improves upon blockchain tech may be most beneficial for upcoming applications.
as such, that's one advantage I do see Ethereum having in the space, as their marketing is pretty good and alot of the dApps coming out are straightforward on the front-end usability, without having to know the technical back-end particulars. not sure if Tezos is focused strictly on the tech right now, or what their gameplan is for implementation and strategic development of simplified applications on the front-end. same for Tauchain. though suppose the tech gotta come first - and if it's that good, may inevitably catch the interest of those who can expand it out and grow the vision for it's integration into commerce and society...
EOS will have the network effect though. It has a big community from Steemit to Bitshares and more. So the ecosystem is the second biggest next to Ethereum itself in my opinion. Tezos will not have a community and will have to create one from the ground up which can take months or years. It will not in my opinion be for 2 years before we see what Tezos could be but I expect it to be big like Ethereum.
Love your in-depth comments, dana!
I am learning so much it is simply unbelievable. :)
Great information Sir, please keep up the good Work.
Thank you so much for this post. Perhaps you can help me understand something. I am becoming more and more savvy about the underlying blockchain tech, but I am finding a disparity between the functionality of the tech and the value of the coins of the company. In this case, ETH. How is ETH valuable? It won't really serve any purpose, and there are better, more evolved, more elegant cryptos coming, like Tezos and BosCoin. Ideas? Suggestions?
Ethereum was never built for the purpose of ETH being a cryptocurrency - rather, it was built as platform upon which to build decentralized apps. Ether is essential to run processes on the blockchain - whether a transaction, dApp, or smart contract. thus, it's valuable because it's an essential resource for use of the blockchain, which the market has determined as valuable because of its functionality...
The world of blockchain and multitudinous applications to which it can be applied is just beginning. It will be a fun ride to see it occur. The internet and now this. Hope to profit by this new phenomenon.
@rok-sivate I'm a developer and make some apps and dapps. I don't see the gas price as an issue since this is not connected to the Ether price ... it is calculated depending on how much data needs to be proccsed. I had an issue before with high gas prices ... but this has more to do with the development of the dapp then the price of Ether.
I would sugest some deeper research and you will find the Ether price is not conected to the gas price ... pleas correct this in your articel.
Thank you.
Thanks for your input / the clarification... 👌
@rok-sivante to go more in depth
First, at the time of this comment, the transaction cost of sending someone ETH is 0.00042 ether (3.75 USD cents). As you know, Ethereum transaction cost (regardless if sending Ether or DAPP usage) is derived not based on ETH price but on gas. So, if ETH price doubled today, the cost of sending Ether to my friend or a merchant would remain right around 3.75 USD cents. Same goes for DAPP operation costs.
Vitalik replied on Matus Lestan's reddit post (which you linked in your article). He explained that the fee is high because this function of the DAPP (profile creation) is coded "highly suboptimal". It shouldn't cost 3.7m gas to create a profile. That’s the issue — the DAPP in question isn’t optimized.
You also linked the gas price chart in your article -- https://etherscan.io/chart/.... Notice on that chart the Ethereum network transaction cost (gas price) is trending down, and remains low. I should emphasize this: The cost of sending ether / running DAPPs is not increasing; it’s actually going down. This is due to (1) more miners joining pool and (2) free market gas prices which is not controlled by miners; it’s determined by free market between Ethereum users / DAPP developers max gas price and gas minimum gas price is set by miners. It’s not controlled by any one party. It’s complex, but it’s smart and scalable, and for the every day Ethereum DAPP user (e.g. Coinbase user trying to send a friend some Ether), it can be abstracted / behind the scenes.
Again, it’s important to understand how gas price (i.e. the cost of operating or using a DAPP) is decoupled from ETH price. I don't foresee Ethereum scaling issues in the foreseeable future. The main challenge will be for DAPP developers learning how to use the Ethereum IDE / libraries and best practices to better develop efficient DAPPS / get their costs of operation economical.
Source: http://www.coindesk.com/ethereums-double-edged-sword-will-rising-price-hurt-users/
excellent thorough insight.
crazy to think the guys at Coindesk allowed that article to be published!
and great to see you had duplicated this comment there - I was about to do the same.
True I posted the source as well.
It seems ETH price is beeing under supresion some how?
I don't know enough to comment on that.
Though if I were to take a guess, I'd say it's simply market forces at work - no asset value rises indefinitely that fast. ETH has had a HUGE price increase over the last month - it's almost surprising it hasn't had a deeper retracement - though perhaps the corrective wave is just flatter. Inevitably, with all the developments taking place in the Ethereumsphere, price shall continue for another upward wave sooner or later...
Sounds good cheers to that
Very good post! Thank you.