eSteem - private messages, stickers [upcoming]

in esteem •  last year

In this post, let's discuss private messages and potential market around this for eSteem users. Private messages been requested from early days and still one of the major feature that everyone wants to have. I will try to highlight why it was postponed until now and what solution we have in mind to bring private messages to the public with future releases. I believe private messaging is killer feature and it strengthen the social interaction.

Blockchain support

Early days we had messaging as a separate plugin on Steem blockchain but after thorough discussions private messaging feature on blockchain level discontinued. Private messages are short lived messages usually doesn't need to be stored on blockchain permanently (a), even encrypting private/vital messages that has long term value doesn't mean encryption won't be broken in future (b).

Above two factors are the reason why private messaging feature wasn't implemented by Steem apps with blockchain level support.

If we were to have sharding/pruning feature on Steem, it would help us to store temporary data and prune them with time-based (block) schedule and/or have enforced fee to keep data for longer period. Maybe one day we will have proper structure to have pruning feature.

Off-chain solution

Solution is to have off-chain support and store messages separately for now. Trustless solution in our mind would be as follows: Encrypt messages with available encryption Steem offers (with memo keys) and have 7 days TTL (time-to-live) feature implemented on external database. Messages are encrypted with your private keys and no one can decrypt it unless they know your private key. And encryption done two ways so that only sender and receiver can read messages. After 7 days message is erased from servers.

Group messaging

This is another challenge which I haven't personally tried out if it would be possible to encrypt message across multiple users.

Stickers and other market possibilities

First and obvious market is to have stickers/emoticons market top of messaging, Viber and number of other messaging apps seem to flourish because emotional interactions are valued by everyone and it brings color to the conversation. It really engage users and help to build relation, friendship.

There are few other markets that can be built on top of messaging but more on that later :)

Do you think it is reasonable to store encrypted private messages only for 7 days?

Do you have any suggestions to improve the model?

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Nice.

Hello! I have been on steemit for about two months and two things that are absolutely crucial for steemit to develop further for me are:

  1. Private messaging - this needs to be built right here on the platform to be used when needed - just like on FB. Only messaging itself does not work these days - people need video calling, they want to interact in a more human way. And again, needs to be available right here to be used, not on a different platform. I also do not think that 7 day storing is any good. How many times do we need to go back and check old messages? From time to time we do since some messages might containt information that we have to go back to.
  2. Availability to buy steem right on the plaftform using Credit Card. While some people might by crypto friendly able to buy steem at exchanges, majority is not. And the growing number of new users will not be crypto friendly and will not go through the hassle of buying steem at exchanges. If we want the price of steem to go up, we need to make it available to people. Right now it is not available which is a problem. Oh well, just some of my thoughts. Have a great night everyone. Tomas.
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I think that @good-karma is a dev for esteem (the app) which uses the steem blockchain, but not of steemit.com ( the website) which uses the same said blockchain. Messages posted with one will show up in the other. There are many that use the steem blockchain. See steemtools.com. The question is, how much volume can I expect if I setup credit card buys for steem on my site steemfiles.com? Accepting credit cards can be costly.

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The 2nd one I want as well. It will have one more advantage, and that would be the stability. Yes, as we have seen in the past that Poloniex had stopped the transactions of Steem, and other issues with the exchanges, people get frustrated with all this. Also exchanges can manipulate the Steem price by offering at different prices or stopping the transaction at the crucial times. This gives them power.
On the other hand if Steemit provides the service for buying Steem directly using debit or credit card, that would be awesome for everyone.

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yes i tried to create a service to let people buy steem directly from me with cash but i dont have the resources to do it, i had to turn down a guy who asked me to let him bank transfer or deposit to my a bank account (which i dont have) and send him steem, i just walked him through how to huy some bitcoin tho instead locally, people need to learn to buy bitcoin locally and credit card would require processing, weneed a simple blocktrades feature or some third party steem with credit card thing ALSO charge back fraud u cant sell crypto for credit card because people use fake credit card IDs and identoty theft and u are forced to give back the money but people get tp keep the crypto! so u cant use credit cards without big infrastructure to deal with potential fraud, uits why crypto is superior, but maybe a local thing where u can put money on a special card at 7/11 like u buy an amazon gift card or prepaid visa card at a loical store and buy the steem with that!

I have a question. Now our team in Ukraine has created a website http://www.steemit.in.ua/ for support, to help Ukrainians and not only to popularize Steemit in Ukraine. The site is still young, we are working and preparing useful content for the site. I want to put a link on the site on your profile and tell you about your application. You do not mind?

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Thank you😉

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apologize first. I am just a layman. . I do not know this good-karma who in this steem.imimakasi. Sorry if the question is a bit stupid.

good job

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I don't see it.

How does this integrate with Steem's accounts and how do you foresee other steem app inter-operating with this?

I already have about 10 private messaging app and the biggest problem with them is segmentation, I like Signal Messenger because it's easy to set anyone up (no login:password to remember) and it also integrate as my SMS app.

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Why you upvoted your own comment?
You want to negative vote others and doing self voting your own contents.

Double standards

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Encryption and decryption of the messages are done with Steem account (memo key) and messages are stored off-chain on eSteem backend for the reason I have briefly talked in post. Since all messages are encrypted (nobody knows content of the message) we can provide API and sample scripts for any other apps to use if they choose to integrate it. Unfortunately, it is not replacement to any other messaging apps that has their own users(base). But for now why postpone feature if we can implement it with what we have/can. Later if we will have pruning functionality, storing messages on Steem blockchain would make more sense and can easily be adopted by eSteem and other apps.

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Are you going to encrypt the fact of sending a message? In other words, if Alice sends a message to Bob a third-party will not be able to decrypt the content of the message, but the fact that Alice is writing something to Bob will be publicly available to everyone, is that correct?

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If we make API public yes, otherwise it stays on eSteem servers for 7 days before erased. Note that it is off-chain and if it was on-chain that would be traceable unless we have stealth transactions.

cool

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This is wonderful news because not everyone likes the messages in the open. Privacy is very important for most people.

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I love stickers, specially gifs on private messages lol

Happy steeming fellas!

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agreed

If we were to have sharding/pruning feature on Steem

Are scaling solutions like that been worked on for steem? Or with Dan gone is the back end of steem considered done?

Just downloaded esteem the other day, like it so far, will give more feedback when I've used it for longer

Nice post @good-karma, Steemit is getting better and better. More and more features are being added. New feature stickers I think are quite helpful expression of the stemians, especially for chating and messaging. A good breakthrough. Hopefully steemit to be the best future.

I think that's good and more interesting. @ Good-karma.
When the message has reached a period of 7 days, then automatically the message will be deleted by itself.
Nothing better than #steemit and #esteem to date.
We for example facebook, messages that years lived there and if we delete it then the recipient still retains the message.
So it was fabulous and very professional.
Thank you sir.

Great that you are working on this. I wouldn't mind if the messaging app is separate as long as it shows up in the main interface of Steemit. This may be a crazy idea but what about having a messaging app with its own blockchain?

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This already exists. It's called bitmessage. You know, I think that bitcoin, steem and bitmessage use the same encryption standards. They could use that. Why write another back end?

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I must check out bitmessage. Im still quite new to crytostuff

Nice post @good-karma, Good post, I @umartantawi want to be steemit like you, guide and support me in posting a useful thing, continued success.help me.

Thank you @good-karma very informative. Also l would like to know why are you not upvoting my posts , is there any l miss. Thank you

I think 7 days is more than reasonable....just having a feature for a quick private chat would be helpful.

And stickers would be fun, but that's not anything I need desperately!

Thank you for all the work you do!

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Hello Melinda

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Good Morning! Hope your day is grand!

Yes private messages are important, started using app as of today, working great so far bit slow I suppose because of my old device, lol
btw, comment fetching bit slow when a lot of comments in post

There will undoubtedly be many changes and improvements to Steemit. There are still many changes forthcoming. It is the only way that the masses will come onboard. There has to be some asthetic incentives for those that aren't very aware of crypto currency to take the plunge.

That's awesome about direct messaging! In snap the direct messaging disappears after 24 hours and I'm fine with that! 👍👍You're doing a great job, thanks!😎

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Where are you from

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hai @clover71
fOllow back my @randa91 Thanks :)

Hi there, I would actually mix both solutions for best results. We need the chain to inevitably protect blockchain users from attacks and at the same time provide good value for distributed delegated proof.

So, my suggestion would be to use an off-chain solution as a service, but control the distributed use of it via blockchain solution. Something like the blockchain storage solutions like Storj for example. But in this case, we have the advantage of the bitShares based blockchain features.

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Thank you for your input! I think Steem has better structure for storing messages rather than Storj but like I mentioned in post, there are pros and cons.

Thank you for posting @good-karma.

Always appreciate you keeping Steemians informed as to the goings on at eSteem.

Appreciated the banner update as well.

A query for you....is there a reason @bleujay's banner is coloured pink at eSteem. It is the correct representation at Steemit...but not at eSteem.

Is there anything bleujay can do to correct it?

All the best to you. Cheers.

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You mean cover image? eSteem adds a bit of dark overlay to the cover image so that text and other information will be more readable.

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Thank you for your reply @good-karma.

Yes....the cover image....has turned a bright garish pink when the original is stone coloured even a taupe/golden but not pink.....

perhaps bleujay needs to select another image.....will also try logging out and back in again.

Appreciate your assistance.

All the best to you. Cheers.

edit....have tried three more images and all still take on the bright pink colour rather than the colour of the original. Is it possible to opt out of the cover image on eSteem only....still having trouble with the eSteem cover image. What else can one try ?

....sent a message via chat....

I believe it will weaken the concept of steem, where everything is out in the open. It is my opinion that the hidden groups on facebook, creating members only places, is one of the reasons it has become a sour and jealous place.

I do really like your app and believe you must have tought this through well.

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Why do you think it will weaken concept of Steem?! Private messages are being used already through different channels (discord, steemit.chat, etc.) It is not encouraging creating members only group or hidden groups that is what upcoming Steem community feature is for.

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I think the pm feature will make things easier :)

I think a PM feature would be great if there was a Add/Accept Friend feature incorporated. Otherwise it would become a Spam magnet like our Wallets have become.

I would like too see messages more then 7 days... Sometimes we don't see a message accidentally ...

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I was thinking Two Weeks.

Hi @good-karma I'm not sure if I would even advocate private messages at all at Steemit (app or main site), let alone storing them for 7 days.

Why? -

  • I already get enough messages by people paying 0.001 SBD and sometimes even 0.001 Steem itself to send a memo with their message. Often times with offers to sell some service to me.

  • if Steemians could send private messages for free I'd probably get thousands of them a day.

Or would the private messages not really be "free" for the sender?

If I have no idea what I'm talking about please feel free (anybody) to tell me to be quite.

On eSteem, I cannot format my pictures. They come out sideways. Anyone have any tips for this? Thanks.

I believe it would be nice to PM ... you could always take it away if for some reason the community decides they do not like it. :)

Excellent news my friend...! I hope this platform support in the near future all options that you comment... It'll been revolutionary..! Amazing..! Thank you for your post

I am on eSteem on mobile, thank you so much @good-karma. eSteem is faster than on mobile browser! Now become more exciting with stickers and emoji please.

If you are replacing Facebook, it is necessary... I do believe it will detract from the comments however. You will also get those annoying folks asking you for re-steems, or follows, or upvotes... when you ignore them on the comments, they will plague you on the messaging (so maybe a block feature is needed also).

Maybe also an archive feature for messages, all messages will disappear in 7 days unless you archive it. This will keep that message alone in storage or for a year.

Just some thoughts... as I travel and email is cumbersome... facebook PMs help without giving away your telephone (text) number.

Finally you can talk to someone withou taggin him/her.

storing messages for 7 days is ethical imo

It will be nice if messaging will be started on steemit.

Steem.chat is full of hassels, don't like that.

Hope steem messages will going to help

I think the message service is necessary for the development of steemit. It seems to be meaningful for anyone(especially esteem) to try private messages first. It is a good idea to store the message for only 7 days.
The world is for those who challenge themselves. Thanks @good-karma

ohh That's Great... By Having this function Steemit will directly compete with Facebook. This was the function that steemit was missing.
But I Waiting for esteem Windows mobile phone application from @good-karma.

Private messaging sounds nice > own App? Stickers nice to have. But why Off-chain solution?

Well, I think 7 days it's enough! I can't see why we need to store messages for more than that.

Or the conversation can be deleted after 48 hours if those who had that conversation are not talking again in this time :D

Oh, my sweet potato... Is it really possible to make private messages here?
That's insanely cool!!

This post has received a 100.00 % upvote from @minnowhelper thanks to: @eutectico. For more information, click here!

nice post, information thanks
DEEPAK KUMAR.gif

Looking forward to this 😎🙌🏼💯

Can't wait to beta test it! :)

I can't wait for private messages.
I've always wanted that rather than contacting someone on steemit.chat or discord where all the members are not on.
Thank you @good-karma for your great work

Great post. From me vote.

Is there an especially good way to get involved in eSteems development? I would like to contribute some UI designs if anyone is interested?

Why not use the same as the Telegram private chat mode? I honestly do not know well how it works in the backend but as far as I know it is private, encrypted and the chat is stored in your phone directly so you can delete it when you want.
Thanks a lot for give some updates about this topic.

I love this new

I think storing messages would be a great ide , if everything we post stays on here , then so should our messages @good-karma

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woww It's a very good development
I will wait for it @good-karma

Wow that are wonderful news ! So exited !

I think it's a good feature and also the encryption, I think it can be improved by asking you to delete them, and this is not only for privacy, may be you want to say something to anyone and think it has not any value for the comunity.

I think this makes sense. What's are the encryption and data retention policies of steem.chat and discord? I don't yet use them much, so haven't investigated.

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Not sure either, steemit.chat doesn't have limits I think, discord I don't use often

Great idea with the 7 days off-chain & encrypted solution for privat messages! Keep up the good work :)

Yeah private messaging would make the app a lot more appealing! Although I don't know about 7 day expiry period. I think something like a month or even 3 months would be better. Like I go back to week old messages a all the time.
And stickers, while I'm not too fond of them, I'm don't really mind them.

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Thanks for your input!

this is the shit that shows me steemit will become invrdible!@ so many developers, talking about shitive never heard of like "pruning" but iget it! temporary data would be the pm's /dm's and the DMs ghaveto be stored soemwhere and wow yeah thissi so interesting! blokchain social media is extra eork but well woryh the extra effort!

But why save only 7 days? Why can not messages be archived forever?

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Because it will be saved off-chain and there is no need to save short messages permanently.

Wow !
Really we are waitimg these feature .
Thanks for the information @good-karma !!
Hope you will add these feature soon .
👍👍👌👌

Great article :) good read

Personally I think 3 days is long enough

This is a good news for esteem users, like the constant innovation, keep it up

Good Idea good-karma we need more options for leave alone other networks as facebook or twitter and we can integrate more people near from us sharing different apps

You are the best 👍👍👍👍 thanks

Cool, that is a feature, I was missing on steemit...

I am looking forward to this feature.

private msg is a must.. and also stickers will be a great addition too.
great work @good-karma
hope we will get these features soon..
Cheers!

Thank you for your post .I think private messages is a good idea as long as jou can block people that wil beg you to follow them!! Hipe you guys have good night

That's good idea, but i don't know, it just something miss i guess!

I love having a private way to exchange with people, giving me advice that would be embarrassing for example if everyone knew I made a dumb comments, etc, or how to fix a problem would be fantastic. I think a short window would be fine as well. Keep up the fantastic work, my friend

wonderfull and great idea we will wait for this @good karma sir

FOLLOWED, UPPED and RESTEEMED

Upvote this Comment for More Resteems

7 days follows the same 7 day payout scheme on Steemit so i would stick to that. Definitely at first. You can always change this later.

Good developments mate. Messaging will be a key feature for me to use the eSteem app besides having it for the push notifications.

I really love this idea. There are so many posts I come across where I wish I could pm the author just to chat or with private questions.

The only real thing I'd like to add, and I'm mostly saying this as a female who's dealt with online harassment, is to make sure there's a way to block people or make it so they can't contact you. Something like that.

I love stickers, specially gifs on private messages lol

Happy steeming fellas!

I do believe that you will work hard to provide us your best creation in developing eSteem aplication. It is very easy to use. It's simple. And the expertise of Steemiters will answer yiur question on the kast part of the post. Thanks

Regard from Aceh.

Whatever changes come, I am sure they will be great. I trust the platform enough to not have to worry about the future.

I think it's a good store for seven days .. but still accept if there is any better. Thanks for the science @good-karma

Private messages are the least of my concern on esteem. I have been using esteem now for over a week because I am on a holiday... Pictures fail to upload or load up turned sideways... The app crashes 3 out of 10 times... I think the app needs a thorough upgrade in my opinion...

Upvoted your article rather interesting.Will follow you and upvote you as well just need a little help from you kindly upvote my article dedicated to my friend who has cancer @rogerblu thanks a million @good-karma

I think it makes sense to keep private messages encrypted for only 7 days but after 7 private messages go to other apps like digital library, thanks

steemit friends thanks,
इस नए दिन की खुँशियों मे खो जाओ

I would like to see messaging implemented. Great idea.

A good blockchain discussion,

I think private messages would be a HUGE plus in the eyes of most people using this site. Im looking forward to when this feature is up and running

Good point dear.. Steemit new feature stickers I think is quite helpful expression of the stemians, but 7 days may increase little for better.. Who know.. Let's wait the developments :-)
Hope you like any of my posts :-)

@good-karma, I think the esteem development plan for storing the encrypted private messages for 7 days makes it possible to do so. So as not to burden the database esteem. However, with the existing esteem filtures already very good. When users want to send private or community messages, they can take advantage of the steemit chat or discord feature.

That's a good feature. I can talk and chat directly with my friends all over the world. It's like the Messenger of facebook. great. I look forward to experiencing it soon. @good-karma

This is amazing .
@eman123

stickers would be much appreciated and private msg are also needed for few occasions
like if there is a limit to private message in a week
that would have been better :)

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That's a great idea, It would be great to PM!!
Awesome @good-karma!

I am interested in your post, by reading this paper my science is more bertamabah, I hope I can continue to follow you. Thank you for sharing with us!

Hello @good-karma :-). Do you maybe know, what this blue square sign means?
Screenshot_20170817-173001.jpg

Thank you very much!

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Hi @fathin-shihab, it means post has been promoted. There is another flame like sign on front of title means post is 100% powered up. ;)

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Thank you. I thought i was flagged. :-)

@good-karma
I am l0ving the Off-chain solution idea very much! As I started reading your post, I thought to myself maybe the reason why we don't have private messaging here@steemit, is due to the devs wanting this new tech(blockchain) to be used how it should be, private-less! Everything seen on the bl0ckchain which is kind 0f a twist because we want privacy but@the same time, every transaction can be viewed by all? lol

So yeah, like$ this Off-chain solution(7 day hold on messages)

Followd/Resteemd

EDIT:
AND IF WE REALLY WANT, WE CAN SIMPLY MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH SOMEONE WE ARE WANTING TO DM(PM) WITH, TO MEET UP@A CERTAIN TIME ON OVER @THE CHAT(STEEM) SECTION.
cLICK 0n the MENU to the right next to your avatar - https://steemit.chat/home

We need something! Cuz even me and my b0i @markush have to PM each other "0ff-Chain" via email when we just want to keep certain things private.

PRIVATE MESSAGING SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED ON THE NEXT FORK ALONG WITH RESTEEM ORGANIZATION(RESTEEM TAB) TO KEEP RESTEEMS SEPARATE FROM PERSONAL POSTINGS ;)

Hallo all......
Do not forget to vote my blog : https://steemit.com/tours/@randa91/tangkuban-parahu-mountain
https://steemit.com/coffee/@randa91/arabica-coffee-and-robusta-coffee
Do not forget also to follow me @ randa91 thanks
Greetings all :)

That is Great @good-karma. I want to add you something in there. any steem member who follows him and also get back following should be enable to access the private chatting . unless it will become the spamming, group chat window should be like the same wise as members have to choice whether they are in or out, I mean if someone added and he does not like the group , so he should have a option to leave. and Yes. encrypted private massages should store only for some days otherwise they will big headache. thanks @good-karma my dear friend. I hope you can remember me in the esteem language translations project earlier. (Sri Lanka) thanks .