RE: Tired of this “Red pill, Blue pill” Analogy
Interesting post and I see your point. There is quite a wide spectrum when it comes to being woke. You pointed out a few talking about the russians, illuminati and others.
Imo, those are by products of being woke, once you've gone down a rabbit hole and seen things, it opens up every other rabbit hole to go down and from there it can be hard to discern truth from tinfoil.
There is nothing wrong with having your beliefs and sharing them with others. You are free to believe that you are right and others are wrong.
But how willing are you to let others believe what they believe?
How can we ever seek to create a peaceful world when we expect others to believe the same things we believe and dismiss them as entirely ignorant when they don’t.
For me, taking the red pill simply means that I see things now in plain english, where prior I saw everything in code. Taxation is theft, war is murder, unlawful arrest is kidnapping, and so on. The reason I copied this paragraph from you is this...everyone is allowed to believe what they want to, I am ok with that.
But it seems not everyone else is ok with just leaving me the hell alone. How can we have a peaceful world when I advocate for peace, yet the people who want to vote for peace completely disregard my wishes to be left alone to my own devices?
I believe in not violating other peoples individual rights. There are others out there who believe just the right amount of force and violence can make the world a better place, but I'm the ignorant one when I tell them that voting is violence.
Have your own beliefs and opinions. It's when those beliefs and opinions directly go against my own (forcefully) that I have a problem with.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you on any of those points but it could easily be turned around too. What if I think you are abusing the rights of animals by killing and eating them, or confining them? Couldn’t I say that you are violating the rights of others and that you are not awake? I’m just playing devils advocate here, I eat meat, but I appreciate vegetarianism and the idea that animals are not very different from us.
What if you raise your children in a way which I find to be abusive? I could easily say you are abusive human rights. But you may just see it as child rearing. So what is apparent and given for one person may not be for another.
The most relevant example I can think of is, what if you legally own the rights to a large plot of land and I have no land to my name. In your mind that land is yours and if I take food off of it and build a little house on it I might be committing a crime. In my mind the land belongs to everyone and since you have way more than you need and I have nothing, I am right to take a little piece just to take care of myself. I am also happy to leave you alone, as long as you aren’t keeping all the resources to yourself.
So I actually agree with you. I just don’t think it’s so objective. Also you don’t usually get far with straight out retaliation, I still don’t regret not flipping my desk over every single day at school when I was forcefully kept in school.
These are simply disagreements between two parties. To which they could be handled in court (if necessary). Those three examples are you stating that you don't like something that I am doing. None of which effect you personally or negatively.
You lose nothing if I decide to be a carnivore, even though you may disagree with it.
You lose nothing if I raise my kids in a way you don't approve of. If it gets to the point where most people would claim it to be abuse, take me to court. Still, you are not effected negatively either way.
Taking land that I own is stealing, and therefore you would be a thief, regardless of your less than ideal circumstances.
Clearly you can see the difference between disagreements that don't effect you, and opining for government to force your neighbor at gunpoint to do something you approve of that they might not want to do, no?
That's the point I am trying to make when saying woke. Disagreements are one thing, forcing people to behave the way you want them to, when it doesn't effect you, is wrong.
lol, same here! How much time could have been saved...
But your concept of ownership and theft has affects me in a negative way and could easily be considered oppressive by those who are hungry. Your faith in court and faith in the concept of ownership have made me powerless and very much affect me. Raising your kids to believe in these concepts is also oppressive to me when the concepts themselves are oppressive. I’m just making a point here.
It’s really all perspective.
Playing devils advocate or do you stand behind these ideas?
To me, those are kind of analogous to "your life is oppressing me so I get to kill you." Are we not all beholden to the golden rule? Unless sociopaths?
Reminds me of this meme:
source
That’s a cute way to pick fun at anyone who doesn’t have a job.
There is one huge detail about this meme that is missing, no one is telling him he needs to pay for that rock to sit on or that land to hunt on. If he has the means to feed himself and it’s nature he’s up against, yes he’s being lazy. If it’s other humans coming between him and his food it’s a very different situation because they claim resources for themselves and call it civilized. It’s sociopath to throw fresh food into the garbage every day when there are people starving because they couldn’t pay for it. Or to not allow homeless people to build their own houses on what we deem “public property”.
It’s very easy to sound civilized when we have lives that are working out or own our own land or means of production, and believe that everyone could do the same “if they just work hard enough”, but it doesn’t always work like that for everyone.
And I don’t condone killing anyone.
I don’t really condone stealing either but I place it below keeping food from someone who is starving on my “list of bad bad”
I guess if you want to take it that way. I think it is highlighting the all too often claimed 'I'm oppressed victim mentality'.
Considering it's a made up meme, I can't argue that. But place him in the boundaries of the USA, or any other government, and you're damn right someone would be insisting he pay to sit on that rock or hunt those lands. Need I mention permits for hunting, permits for building/homesteading, property taxes, etc? I would love to go start my own homestead in the wilderness but currently that is not an option.
Main reason for this is that government says these grocery stores can't just give out old food. I wish they could and think they should.
Again, government laws prohibiting anyone from homesteading land without approval. We agree on this and most topics actually.
Without playing devils advocate, in your own personal opinion, if I want to live my life in peace in the wilderness, in what way(s) would I be oppressive to anyone/yourself?
Disagreements aside about eating meat or anything like that, I'm talking about how you personally would be effected negatively.
You can live that way sure!
....the problem is that most people want more than they need, way more than they need, like obscene amounts more than they need, and they aren’t taking responsibility for each other....our western “freedom” is a lot more like egoism than freedom. That’s not going to go away overnight.
I’m not against all luxuries but I think prioritizing the well-being of ALL should come before certain luxuries for a select few and I don’t see how free market capitalism without regulation does that (not sure if that’s your stance, I just know it’s a popular one around here and it SEEMS to maybe be where you are coming from). Big business and big govt are both big problems but they would balance each other out if they were kept seperate from each other as they were meant to be. I don’t see how a free market would stop certain people from being insanely selfish on its own, I don’t see how we are ready for THAT level of freedom, though we are certainly ready for way more freedom than we have now.
The next positive steps forward will come out of community and experimentation, from the bottom up, not the top down. 20 hour work weeks would really get the ball rolling (30 would be a small but meaningful step forward) but it’s already happening thanks to the internet, it’s just slower and a lot of the opportunity is being sucked up by “whales” while we are busy trying to “get by”. I don’t see how greater levels of competition between individuals could achieve any better than what we’ve got now except for those who already have way more than everyone else. I would love to see someone break up all these massive sprawling companies and create some competition on that level, but who has the means to do that besides the state? They aren’t doing it, but decrease their power and then the corporations are free to act like states.
I usually don’t enjoy debates unless it’s just about sharing perspectives without any kind of push to change each other’s ideas....if we could do that, maybe we should keep this going on discord. It does seem we agree on a lot. I am still trying to find a middle ground between my own views and that of the many capitalists and libertarians on the platform, I believe there is one to be found and it’ll be force to be reckoned with when it is found.
Thanks. Just got back from a spur of the moment trip to Lake Michigan and I'm wiped, but I'll get back to you on discord for sure :)