Staking Risk in up/down voting?

in #steem5 years ago (edited)

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Idle thoughts really... I was thinking about the problem that some of the new changes in HF21 were supposed to be addressing. Well, mostly... I'm a bit indifferent as to the new reward splits and new reward curve for authors. It is just too hard to see how a couple of changes in a complex non-linear system will play out. Of course, there is the immediate effects which are easy enough to see... but it would be quite brave to predict with any certainty what the eventual equilibrium will be...

However, I do still have a bit of an issue with the idea that upvoting and downvoting are essentially risk free. By this I mean that it costs RC (which is regenerating and not really a real economic "cost"... but there is no real economic risk for a voter to cast a up/down vote. This means that you can just cast your vote left right and centre with no real concern other than maximising relatively pitiful (for most of us...) curation rewards. Even then, there is no cost... just trying to stay ahead of inflation... but the worst you can do is 0.

This seems to lead to a complete carelessness to what happens to your vote... bots, vote-selling, auto votes are essentially all results of this. There is no cost... only potential benefit. Now, what sort of system has only upsides and no risk and consequences for actions?

Now... just throwing out an idea out. What if the act of casting a vote (up or down) meant that you were actually ALSO staking some SP (small and proportional to your potential share of the curation reward) which would be added to the "curation pool". Thus, if you upvoted and the post was generally upvoted by the community then you would just recover the staked portion and also normal curation portion. However, if you upvoted and the post was downvoted to zero... you would not recover the staked portion and not gain any curation rewards either.

Now, this could also help fund downvoting... If a post was generally downvoted by the community, then the stake that was forfeited by the upvoters could be redistributed to the downvoters, whilst the downvoters would recover their stake.

Of course, like any system... this could be gamed and exploited. However, it is a little thought... It could have the benefit of slowly whittling account that are involved in flag wars, due to the incomplete recovery of SP. Yes, it can be exploited by accounts downvoting to try and capture the staking rewards... however, if this was countered by the community at large, then those exploiters would end up LOSING SP.

Anyway, as I said... thought bubble...

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That is an interesting idea with a cost for voting it may slow down some that game the system but sadly people often put more effort into gaming nay system, that they do it using it properly

Agreed... people will game the system, but if there is a potential economic cost to playing the game, then it might make people think twice... at the moment, you just can't lose!

Yes thats a very good point ;)

Thank you for this information, good thinking, and I am even more curious to know what brings us this new HF21, we must be careful not to fall behind!

I don't know... just by being here is more than enough I guess... I don't really want (for myself) to feel like this is a race!

There will never be one solution that fits all because there are bad actors everywhere and people will always be people, regardless if it's a blockchain platform or not.

This idea of investing steem/stake with a vote would be good to give people more reason to think about what they're voting on and not run things on auto pilot but what about brand new accounts with little to no stake or those who have had SP delegated and maybe are only propped up by delegations?

We'll just have to see how the next round of experiments goes 🙂

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Small accounts wouldn't have a problem. The staked amount would be small and in proportion to the Vests that you allocated to the claim on the curation.

Agreed with the potential of bad actors...which is why I find the current no loss guarantee on voting to be a bit broken. If there is no consequence for actions, why bother trying to do good?

Ah OK so you're thinking it would skim off a percentage of your stake based on how much your vote is worth... Something like that.

I get what you're saying but I don't believe the majority of people using this platform are bad. But the technology is advanced enough to be able to create a multi layered system where this "vote trend stake payment" should be tried.

Heard of inmusik? They are looking at (or at least were mentioning it in their whitepaper) about a system similar to what you're describing where whales can't dictate play and payouts are based on the trending votes of the community so a couple of big upvotes doesn't necessarily mean you'll get on the featured front page. It does sound vastly complex though and they may have canned that idea for now

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I really like to see what the future brings do I will stick around

Agreed... a new equilibrium is needed... will this do it?

I really like to
See what the future brings do
I will stick around

                 - brittandjosie


I'm a bot. I detect haiku.

Everything about HF21 - including your post - is way over my head.
I'll just have to stand on the sidelines and see how things will work out...

I don't know... I think you are more on top of it than most people! At least listening and reading is more than most!

I try to, but I get more confused with everything I read.
Just read something about the 1 minute voting window...
It's definitely going to ask for some radical changes in behavior...

Only if you are trying to maximise... I never bothered, I voted when I read, too lazy to play the game!

Plain and simple. i like it 👍 😉

You have some good ideas there @bengy. Hopefully, someone is listening.

Well... ideas, I'm not so sure of myself to think that they are ultimately good ones... as for your other comment... Haha... this is STEEM! No one is listening!

| Haha... this is STEEM! No one is listening!

Man, you got that part right!

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