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RE: My problem with Communism
Communes where everyone is on board with the rules is a voluntary system. They are anarcho-syndicalists and that may work for some people with similar goals, backgrounds, and a shared ethos. But, it's beyond a scaling issue. That's not what everyone wants from life. And therefore different systems have to be allowed to flourish.
Building communist governments is an oxymoron. Anarchy can, however, take many forms with different rule sets, as long as the members are free to come and go based on freedom of association and honoring of agreements/contracts.
Yeah I've debated with Anarcho-Communists before telling them people could voluntarily build an ancom society inside of Anarcho-Capitalism but the reverse is NOT true. So Ancap could contain Ancom as long as it is voluntary, but Ancom cannot contain Ancap.
Exactly. But, most of my Progressive friends aren't even that sophisticated in their thinking. They are far too gone down the road of needing to control outcomes because of their personal fear of things not working they way they think in fair.
They simply cannot face the idea that what they want isn't what everyone else wants, or worse, should want.
I've noticed something. You are rarely going to witness someone change their mind WHILE you are having the discussion. That is very rare. However, you are planting seeds that they can think about over time. They are doing the same in you. It is very possible you DID convince them. It just takes time for that seed to sprout and grow.
So that is how I look at it. That makes me think it is worth the effort even if I don't see an immediate reaction.
I've seen someone who disagreed with me like you described that I debated with and nothing seemed to come of it. A year later I see him debating with some other people and he is where I was with him. So I did influence him, even though I didn't witness the transformation, I simply saw it later.
I can tell you that I've had that happen on dozens of occasions. Moreover, those watching the debate are usually swayed on the matter at hand more than the person you are arguing with.
And I never bring it up or say, "I told you so." I just note it, incorporate their new position with glee and move on.
The people I was referring to in my last comment I've been arguing these ideas for nearly two decades now and all that happens is either a 'I don't want to talk about this stuff' after they say stupid shit in my home or wait to pick the fight later with a new, more refined version of the old argument, which I skewer just as easily as before.
We're talking committed, Derrida/Foucault reading dyed-in-the-wool marxists here. They're not coming round until after the system crashes, if ever.
Yeah some people are intractable. They are locked into their paradigm and the only thing that causes a paradigm shift when someone is that LOCKED into how right they are is typically trauma, or some other shocking situation.
That is what I live for, those initially unappreciative bastards that won't ever open their mouth but are so sure of themselves when the type in "anarcho oxymoron" to seek like minded oxymorons.
Beautiful.
Thank you for saying so.
My pleasure. What a beautiful world it would have been.