Should Comments Have Their Own Reward Pool?
Possibly the most popular part of the Hardfork proposal is being rethought. Despite the positive response to the proposal there are many who see potential issues. With every dramatic change there are always people (including me) who constructively criticise the potential impacts of the changes. Personally I see this as one of the greatest ways to encourage user engagement. There is a huge demographic of social media users currently getting "left out". Many people do not consider themselves writers yet they write valuable critique and feedback and are the consumers content creators need to make their creations worthwhile.
Here are some of the arguments currently driving the debate:
Voting bandwidth
One of the questions brought forward was would each separate reward pool also have a separate voting bandwidth.
Curators are very conscious of their voting power when they vote and this is the main reason comments are neglected by voters. There is an opportunity cost since the chances of more votes being placed after your own is much less likely.
How much for comments
There was also some rejection of the seemingly high proposal of 38% of the post reward pool to go to comments. Initially I also saw this as a drastically high number, but when I considered just how many valuable comments there are in comparison to posts - at a time when engagement through comments is actually quite low - to me this number seemed fair. However, I do think the developers have a habit of diving into the deep end without considering their friends who are just learning to swim.
Not to sound too critical of them, but this approach was also taken when proposing to lower the voting bandwidth. A jump from 40 to 5 terrified everyone. If it were possible to take a smaller step first, to ease people in and let them test the waters first, then from there we can choose to move forward or backward or settle on the sweet spot if we've found it.
In saying that, during a Steemit Community Discussion last week hosted by @krnel I did learn something which could be the reason for taking large steps instead of small. What we discussed were the risks involved when hard forking a blockchain. The more hard forks required to achieve something, the greater the risk of error along the way. An error could lead to something like a break in the community, such as what we see with ether and ether classic.
Auto Voting for Curation Rewards
Another argument that was made against the separate reward pool was that this would only create a new window for auto curators to vote without judging the quality of the comments. However, this argument is assuming that comments will continue to give curation rewards, which I am not sure is the intention.
If comments did not give a curation reward to the voters then this would simplify the system. There would be no need for voters to think about what time they should vote at. Voting would be much more natural and authentic, since the vote shows greater appreciation since it is at a cost to the curator. Note: this is not a cost to minnows who do not have enough SP to gain curation rewards anyway.
There is another cost to this proposal that many may have not considered. This comment was made by @pfunk on the github thread.
There does need to be more incentives to stay Powered up. In my opinion, curation isn't enough. Even non-monetary incentives would do wonders. One way that games keeps gamers addicted is the feeling people get from a level up. Each time you level up and receive something meaningful (like a gimmicky new weapon or even digital clothing) this makes the gamer want to continue to the next level. Curation is good, but the target SP level for making meaningful curation rewards is too high. I'm not arguing that it should be lower, but the addition of lower targets would encourage our competitive nature.
Click here for some examples and feel free to add your own ideas here in the comments.
Conclusion
I'm interested in any thoughts on the above but here I would like to draft my own conclusions.
In my opinion there is no need to incentivise curators to vote for comments. The new pool for commenters (if curation rewards were disabled) would encourage more constructive comments. There is already an opportunity cost to voting for comments and yet people do. Therefore I think that opportunity cost should remain, since the reward pool for those who do receive votes would still be more than they get now.
I would also add that since this opportunity cost is much more to those with more SP (the whales) you could speculate that if the whales chose not to vote for comments, then those votes of those with lower SP would have a greater impact on distributing the comment reward pool. I think people underestimate the joy a low SP curator feels in seeing their vote give somebody $0.01 with their vote.
For this reason I would even increase the opportunity cost by removing curation rewards for comments. That way when a large SP holder does vote for a comment, it is because they appreciate the comment enough to take the opportunity cost. The minnows and dolphins who do vote on comments would feel more powerful thus keeping them more engaged.
Where do you think we might find a soft spot for comment rewards? Perhaps 20% would be a fair compromise.
I have always loved the comments section of an article on any website. somehwere along the way the comments section on Steemit took a big hit and it saddens me.
I appreciate the complexities and potential consequences that a separate voting power for comments presents, but I also feel that discourse drives engagement, and quality content drives discourse.
With rewards mixed into the equation, it's almost as if discourse got left behind (rewards wise), and that's missed opportunity for sincere networking around mutual interests, also affecting that pipeline of quality content -> discourse -> engagement + networking -> mutual enrichment (new friend, new knowledge, a little SP, tangential public enrichment, etc)
I have no idea for any solution, but I love reading comments. Comments sometimes give better insight than the content. I'm always reading the comments on News and Media sites.
I don't really have a strong preference, but it is important to be aware that there are deep ethical issues associated with harvesting votes on comments without rewarding the voter. This is basically what all other platforms are already doing. One of the things that makes steemit different is its attempt to reward all parties who add value. Eliminating curation awards on comments seems like a step backwards. I recommend this video, where AI expert Jaron Lanier discusses the same phenomenon on other platforms. Here is a brief excerpt that captures the argument.
Curation rewards are a double-edged sword and it is not clear if they do more harm than good.
Comments will be distributing rewards on a flatter scale and there are plenty of organic reasons to vote even if there were no rewards.
No idea whether it's technically feasible, but I have wondered if it would help to let authors of top-level posts set their own curation reward percentage? New authors could set a high curation reward to attract a following, established authors might want to set it lower. It would be sort-of like setting a price for your article. It's possible that there is no single "right" percentage that fits everyone in all cases.
That gets trickier in the comments, though. I haven't thought about what that might look like.
Jaron Lanier's writing is very relevant to this. He makes a strong argument for why such informal benefits of contributing data such as votes are not enough. I would definitely recommend watching an interview with him when you get the chance.
I think comments should have their own pool. It's a great thing to see a blog with great content but sometimes it's even more engaging to frequently visit a blog because of people's comments, hasn't that ever happen to you?
I have a blog I go to a few times a day and sometimes there's more fun in the comments that in the post itself. Also, look at 9gag, most of the comments there are pricelessss
How much? I don't know. 38% sounds a bit much but we need to put this to the test before deciding a final number.
It happens to me all the time. I think we are under estimating the value of commenters currently because of the curation incentives. We are also under estimating the potential for this drawing in many new social media contributors who are more likely to contribute comments than to write an actual blog post. If this was done right we could see the price of steem go up again due to a sudden influx of new users who would come to get paid for their comments.
With no curation rewards for comments, why would anyone upvote comments? It makes no economic sense. People would just be wasting their upvote on something without getting anything in return.
And 38% of the reward pool would go unused.
I don't feel it would be wasted votes at all. Think of the dynamic of communities, which I believe will be much stronger in the future as group or sub forum style tools become available.
Content creators have plenty of incentive to vote up good comments on their material as do the other members of the community. Voting on comments is allocating power to people you respect in your community (especially those who may not blog themselves) who probably follow you and upvote your content. A vote on a good comment is akin to a customer acquisition cost. If the person is retained as an active follower, you recoup that cost slowly with each new (more powerful) vote they cast for you.
Communities that have the most engagement (voting & comments) within a tag or group will see all participants grow their Steem Power at a greater than average rate because the reciprocal voting creates a feedback loop/virtuous cycle, whatever you want to call it.
Make no mistake, I'm not advocating collusion or vote trading. We're all going to settle into our main tribes with ancillary participation elsewhere. The groups that make use of comments and engagement, be it politics, gaming, art, or any topic, will successfully carve out a percentage of the rewards distribution that passive communities will not. Comment voting in its present form does this already, but the effect would be enhanced with these proposals.
Personally, I don't think the vote would be wasted, either. I upvote comments all the time, not expecting a reward.
I'm just talking about what I've observed about the big whales. I know for a fact that a number of them don't even like the content on the platform and vote for monetary gain, period.
Not saying it's a bad thing, I just feel that's the way it is.
I assume they would upvote as a sign of assent or appreciation for the comment and this would be a reward in itself. The commentator would be rewarded(from the 38% reward pool) for their efforts in contributing to the discussion. Upvoting also pushes comments higher in the thread to gain better visibility, so it might be the aim of upvoters to make a particular point more prominent to readers following.
Oftentimes, people will rally behind a commentator that has expressed their viewpoint. Rather making a 'me too' post, they can just upvote?
Minnows don't get curation rewards. This would mean if mainly minnows did the voting their vote would give a higher reward than $0.00. That would give minnows a very good feeling as currently they mostly feel pretty powerless.
Minnows don't, but the reason people are here doing anything are the whale votes. And they whales vote when their is a monetary incentive.
And I doubt they will go comment hunting when there's no money to be made. The end result is that we will be earning 38% less for our posts.
I would be OK with that because more rewards for commenters has the potential to bring many more users since there are more commenters than writers in the world. Bringing more users would increase demand for steem and the price would go up.
Yes, I'm more than willing to give it a shot. There are a lot of people on Facebook who rarely, if ever, make their own posts, but comment on other people's posts frequently. And maybe when outsiders run into Steemit posts, they have a comment in mind they would like to make, and if comments are being rewarded in a significant way, they get interested in joining Steemit.
So, I'm not trying to be opposed to change for the sake of.
I'm just skeptical.
But like I said before, more engagement is good. Currently, Steemit attracts content creators, and that is the reason for the lack of comments, since people are mostly occupied with their own content, waiting for the upvotes to come. Most of the people on the internet are content consumers, so there's a huge group of people that Steemit is not drawing to the platform right now.
I guess curation rewards for comments could skew the conversations when comments from certain users would get autovoted every time.
In that sense, I agree with the changes.
I will take a wait and see approach. But I'm reserved.
That is true. But I'm not convinced that the comments would earn much. And less rewards for posts will drive existing members away.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong, since what keeps me hooked on Facebook are the conversations, and right now Steemit is not that social of a social media, but I see potential problems.
According to the developers they would make 38 times what they are making now... That might be a bit much but not if we suddenly get a lot more users...
true, since right now the commenters are basically the writers too
Curation rewards in comment is gonna be ugly. It's evident to me that we should remove curation rewards from comments. I think 38% is way too much though, maybe 10% or something and also consider increasing curation reward percentage on the other 90% pool. Curation rewards are the main reason why people buy SP now, you should increase this not decrease it. If authors gets 10% less reward they will keep posting, if curators get 10% less curation rewards they will buy less SP.
Comments won't give curation rewards under the new system.
I would like if they increased curation for the underdogs - yet to be discovered authors. This would encourage competition between new users and those who are already popular.
Thanks for posting this. Your post has encouraged some really amazing comments.
I'll just add this update to the Github conversation. Feel free to add this to your post if you wish @beanz

This post has been ranked within the top 25 most undervalued posts in the second half of Jan 13. We estimate that this post is undervalued by $12.18 as compared to a scenario in which every voter had an equal say.
See the full rankings and details in The Daily Tribune: Jan 13 - Part II. You can also read about some of our methodology, data analysis and technical details in our initial post.
If you are the author and would prefer not to receive these comments, simply reply "Stop" to this comment.
Also if tipping was integrated we could create a weekly tipping competition. We could use say 5% of the reward pool to rewards say the 500 best tippers of the week. It would make use of the reward pool a lot more effective for rewarding comments.