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RE: Jesus is Not God - Truth in the Scriptures
You are quite correct. The Triune God which was officially adopted in 325 AD at the council of Nicea is of pagan origin. It made the Messiah God and the Pope the mediator between God and men... Yeshua/Jesus calls his father the only true God . (John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.) The Angel Gabriel told Mary "That which is conceived in you is of the Holy Spirit". How can the Holy Spirit be a third person in some triune Godhead and still be the Father??
1 Cor 15:28 tells us that after the Messiah destroys death and subjects all enemies, he himself will be subject to God so that God may be all in all.
Thank you, The truth is clear throughout the Scriptures. Even in corruption God preserves the truth for those who seek. May God bless you.
You know the council of Nicea was called to specifically address the heresy of Arianism, right? Do you think all those bishops (under the authority of the bishop of Rome) actually got together and came up with a creed that didn't reflect the beliefs of the Church? I mean, read some of the writings of the early fathers, their writing does not conflict with what later became the Nicean Creed.
This was already the belief of the early church. There was nothing new foisted on the early Christians. In fact, it was a miracle that the Church even MADE it through Arianism. It was a heresy which almost destroyed the Church.
And now you guys want to revisit it!
Might as well just become Muslim. At least they have a solid political structure, and you wouldn't have to work so hard.
“You know the council of Nicea was called to specifically address the heresy of Arianism, right?”
No Actually, I believe the Council was called to make official the majority view held be the western churches at the time. What you call heresy, I call the truth of Christology. Arius was not the author of the doctrine for which he was credited, he only intensified its discussion in the Church. Arius was accused of “thinking too Jewish” which is ironic, since all the authors of scripture were Jewish.
Do you think theological thinking was somehow unchanged in 300+ years? 1 John tells us the spirit of antichrist was already at work and in the world in his day; the 1st century AD.
I fully understand how Athanasius might come to the conclusions he did. If you have a Platonic world view were an “immortal soul” is fundamental, then you must harmonize the Son of God with that understanding, which necessitates a preexistent immortal son coexisting with the Father. Unfortunately, the immortal soul doctrine is not correct nor scriptural. (Did you ever wonder why nothing was ever written concerning Lazarus’s four days in the grave? You would think he might have an interesting testimony after spending four days in some glorious heaven, not to mention his surprise at being yanked back into his difficult mortal existence)
If you want to make the argument that Arius was a heretic because he was in the minority, you might want to re-think that.
Matthew 7:14 - But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
In regards to your comment, “Might as well just become Muslim.” I find it inflammatory and not consistent with the faith I’m sure you feel quite well versed in. I also find it ironic due to the fact that the only significant sect of Christendom who ever slaughtered their ideological adversaries are the ones whom with you align yourself doctrinally. Estimates of people killed by the Papacy throughout the middle ages ranges between 50 and 150 million. That sounds an awful lot like Jihad does it not?
Matt 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles?
Finally, The Papacy made Christ into God, and the Pope into the mediator between God and men. They established a Church structured similar to the Gentile nations (pyramid structure) in direct disobedience to Christ. The list goes on and on.
1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.
Matthew 23:8–12
8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Yes, I am aware of the many Saints that were persecuted under the new Roman Catholic system. It would seem that you too would enjoy silencing out those who oppose you. You keep bringing up Muslims, but perhaps you have more in common with them than I.
True, they believe that God is one, but is that a reason to reject the idea? If you reject everything the Muslims believe you will end up rewriting the entire old Testament. As I said before, The Muslims have nothing to do with this. I'm sure there are Muslims here who would be happy to debate you if you so wish to go down that path. Maybe you should have said "Might as well just become a Jew", that would have been much closer.
I speak in love and wish no persecution on anyone. I just want to learn and share ideas with others. I want to glorify God. I pray and God leads me; This is where I have been lead.
If you only have insults and attacks, then depart from me.
I don't know what you are referring to. Do you call Arius a saint and blame the "new roman catholic system" for fighting and winning against his heresy?
I keep asking you, not in an insulting way, "What is your Bible tradition??" What translation do you use and why, and who has come before you in your thinking? Who is the apostle of your tradition?
You cannot simply say that you are returning to the roots of Christianity and then read the Bible in English and start telling 2000 years of unbroken, apostolic tradition that they are dead wrong.
I want to know who taught you. Are you self-taught, using only the Bible in English?
Islam
To the question of Islam: the best lies are 95% Truth. As are the most successful heresies.
I can reject everything Islam preaches, based on the source of that teaching. I don't have to parse through it to find the few pearls of truth. I can reject it outright yet at the same time acknowledge that there might be some truth in there, because fortunately, any truth that may be found in Islam is already found in Christianity.
I stand by my statement that your beliefs are closer to Islam than to Judaism or to Christianity.
There are plenty more parallels, but I just don't know how to approach you. You very forcefully come out with guns ablaze, railing against Trinitarian Christianity (ie CHRISTIANITY), and yet you use the Bible, passed down to you by the Roman Catholic Church. It is a paradox.
On the divinity of Christ
How do you feel about the 7 "I AM" statements in John's Gospel.
Surely you know that a Jew would never - ever - have spoken about himself using such provocative language, unless that person was claiming to be God. That is treading far too close to the unmentionable name of YHWH.
And what about when Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I AM." THIS is the kind of language which caused the jewish authorities to rend their garments.