The Flat Earth, The Bible and a translation error that spawned a conspiracy that just won’t die
I’m thinking that Steemit has heard enough about my battle with dodgy knees, and even dodgier code, so I thought I’d give you something a little different today for the Challenge 30.
This was kicked off by me (unfortunately) reading and commenting on this post.
If you have spent some time on YouTube recently you would have noticed the increase in content about the Flat Earth.
If you get into discussion with the Flat Earthers the argument for a flat earth always seems to originate from the Bible.
According to these well read and enlightened people, because the ‘four corners of the earth’ are mentioned in the bible, this means that we can’t be living on a sphere, and the globe earth model was created to drive people away from God.
So the earth is really a flat disk with a dome overhead.
Makes perfect sense right?
There are many problems with the Flat Earth model, but I want to focus on just the bible references today.
The Earth has four corners
There are a few references in the Bible that mention four corners. Here are some of them:
Isaiah 11:12
And He will lift up a standard for the nations And assemble the banished ones of Israel, And will gather the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth.
Original Koine Greek translated from Hebrew: Isaiah 11:12
καὶ ἀρεῖ σημεῖον εἰς τὰ ἔθνη καὶ συνάξει τοὺς ἀπολομένους Ισραηλ καὶ τοὺς διεσπαρμένους τοῦ Ιουδα συνάξει ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων πτερύγων τῆς γῆς
Revelation 7:1
After this I saw four angels standing at thefour corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.
Revelation 20:8
and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
So let’s look at this.
The book of Isaiah actually comes from the Old Testament, so it was originally written in Hebrew. The Hebrew references translate to extremities - so the four extremities of the earth, which makes sense.
In Isaiah 11:12 the ‘four corners’ was actually translated into Greek as the four wings.
In this context think of a wing as in the wing of a building. So it means area – the four areas of the Earth, which would be North, South, East and West.
In the Revelations (which was originally written in Greek) the word used is actually ‘corners’, or perhaps more correctly, angles.
If you take the view of there being four angles, this also makes sense. Think of a cross with four 90 degree angles. These are the four angles of the earth – North, South, East and West.
In Revelations 7:1 it says:
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.
If you change the text just slightly it makes much more sense.
After this I saw four angels standing at thefour points of the compass, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.
But let’s say, for arguments sake, that I am wrong. Four corners means four corners
This still doesn’t work on a flat earth. The Flat Earth model is a disk with a dome overhead.
You still don’t get corners on a disk.
So the argument that because the bible uses the phrase four corners means the earth is flat, just doesn’t hold up.
In Rebuttal
So as I said in my comments on the post that got me into this in the first place, if you are going to use geography to support your argument, at least get the geography right.
In the video the chap points to flight paths and says they are going from Johannesburg, South Africa to Sydney, Australia. Except the flight paths indicated went to Brisbane instead. Not just a different city, it was a different STATE!
It’s the same with bible references. If you are going to use them, use them correctly. Find the original text, find out why this phrasing was used, find out what it meant at the time it was written.
Do your research and exercise due diligence.
It took less than 30 minutes for my wife to find and read the original Greek text of the bible. It took another 20 minutes of discussion about how the words were used and are used, and the meanings behind them to clarify what the phrase meant.
It turns out, my hypothesis was correct – the Flat Earth argument, using Bible references, comes from mis-translation and mis-understanding the meaning of the phrase four corners of the earth.
There are other scientific arguments made by Flat Earthers, but that’s fun for another day.
If you are a Flat Earther, please don’t feel that I am attacking you. That is not my intent.
I am attacking your argument based on bible references, as I find the argument to be flawed. If you have a better argument, by all means make it and let’s have an informed debate about it.
But please do your research first and don’t give me facts that I can dispute without leaving the comfort of my chair, or telling me that everything is fake and a conspiracy without telling me how it is fake and why it is fake, who faked it, when, where – you know, all the details that matter.
Here is a link to some references that you may find interesting.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c017.html
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I was once told by a flat earther that they have members all around the globe. Can't argue with that logic
Ok, that made me choke on my breakfast!
I love it!
It would be such a boring world if we all believed in the same things :)
Very true ;-)
You are right.
But believe ends where knowledge starts and there is not much we know for surer then that the earth is a globe.
btw: Do flat Earthers use a navigation system in their car?
I haven't a clue
I'm a big fan of the artist David Dees and often put his pictures on my web pages. But unfortunately he has become a flat earth believer...
http://ddees.com/
Have to say it's the biggest bunch of crap I've ever heard, and people think I'm an out there conspiracy theorist.
Dees openly says he's a FE'r? I thought he was just making art on the subject. Link?
Yes he appears to be a hook line and sinker believer!
Here is a website you will love:
https://christianflatearthministry.org/2016/04/19/david-dees-learns-about-the-flat-earth/
Mixed in between all the flat earth crap is a lot of true stuff
I suspect this is a CIA/NWO fake site, as part of their goal to discredit "conspiracy theorists" (the real purpose of the flat earth con)
Such a fine post and discussion, Trevor! Thank you!
I am frequently saddened by the "overly literal" mindset of arguments over the content of the bible, and I'm not just talking about fundamentalist interpretations!
One of the most egregious examples (I.M.H.O.) of such an argument comes, surprisingly, from the atheist perspective when commenting on the description of Solomon's "Sea of Brass" found in the old testament.
People on all sides of the arguments really need to make allowances for the common usage of natural language. We don't all speak "math" or "science," we speak English (what a mess!) and Russian and so forth.
Having said all that, I imagine the four corners of the earth as points of a tetrahedron encompassing the planet... :D
I'd also observe that the number four in scripture, if it implies anything, implies a universal perspective. ;) 😄😇😄

ohhhhhhhhhhhh i love that you took on this debate! I saw a video that didn't convince me - but definitely made me think twice. (because sometimes we just believe what we're told... and I had to say - wait... WHY do I believe that the earth is round? which I think is really important!)
But I would LOVE IT... if you would take on other portions of their points and counter them! (and you too @creatr!) LOL
If you do - i promise... i'll give you $0.003 - which is the full power of my upvote. hahahahaha
This is not directed at you or your post ...
The thing I really enjoy about these discussions on the FET is watching how taboo the subject becomes in the hands of the "open-minded". ;)
I've rarely seen a topic receive more push back and hateful comments than FET these days. It's amazing to watch unfold on a daily basis around the internet.
People who have no idea what they are talking about, on both sides of the "debate" (I'm giving way too much credit to some with that one), are all of a sudden experts on all subjects once the FET is mentioned. ;)
And then the parrots start singing on both sides and it just becomes a giant clusterf@ck of semi-coherent opinions disguised as "proof" on both sides. Those who are so sure about their position sure do get hot under the collar simply because someone else doesn't agree with their position.
Which means ... I love it!
I hope the FET lives on and people continue discussing it from both sides until the day they bury my (proven) round ass into the ground.
;)
Thanks for that.
I love the debate also. And debate is all about taking an opposing view and coming up with arguments and supporting those arguments with facts.
I just wish some of their facts were in fact real, it would make the debate a bit more challenging ;-)
no
You know what really scares me ... the thought that society is becoming full of people who believe one opinion/theory is absolutely correct (and guess what, it's always their opinion that is the correct one); so much so that they are willing to shut down or ignore the opinions of others and shut out any evidence that is contrary to their own belief system.
Here in today's age we have a lot of scientist who say we're living in a virtual reality. Are they as crazy as anyone believing the FET? Should we shut them down when they say these "crazy" opinions/theories?
I mean, we have lots of proof we are not living in a virtual reality, so they must be insane, right? Let's stop listening to them altogether and downvote/flag and call them names and ostracize them from society for not believing (the ever changing views of) science! ;)
Personally I love how fucked up different we all are. It would completely suck if we all believed the same thing. ;)
everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
no one is entitled to their own facts.
Exactly, and that's my point in my reply above. The "facts" are being disputed and that's a good thing, that's "science".
Adhering to some ideology that "science is settled", means that we're entering into something that's not science, it's "pseudo-science" or "scientism". It's nothing more than a belief system, like religion. ;)
Most FE'rs appear to be simply saying, "let's test it!".
They're not saying, "I know the Earth is flat", they're saying, "I want to test if the Earth is flat or round; because I discovered I've been lied to about so many things and that I was indoctrinated instead of educated".
It's the backlash from it that I find amazing. You have people wanting to test science and then another group opposes them trying to do science test, "because science is settled"???
I find that logic to more closely resemble a religious belief, than based upon any form of "science". ;)
There is no proof that we don't live in an (perfect) illusion. There can't be.
This is also one of the things the old Greek Philosophers found out. Are you a butterfly dreaming to be a human? (Or a human dreaming to be a butterfly dreaming to be a human?) Not proofable.
That the earth is not flat (and gravity exists) WAS 100% proven by people sailing around the globe 500 years before. You should think the news has spread until now.