The Communion of the Saints

Biblical Apostolate
Archdiocese of Palo
Apologetics Series

Topic X

The Communion
The Communion of the Saints
Bro. FERNAN B. PRESILLAS

I. INTRODUCTION
In the ninth article of the Apostle’s Creed it says: “…the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints….” Let’s focus on this fundamental teaching – the Communion of Saints. This is one of the basic Christian teachings being opposed by our separated brethren who according to them are against the sole “mediatorship” of Christ; that Christ is the only mediator between man and God. Hence, to pray for the Saints is a form of idolatry. All of this and the rest of the common objection and necessary information will be treated on this topic for us to be equipped with full Christian knowledge about the doctrine of the communion of Saints.

II. DERIVATIVES
A. Communion, from Latin “COMMUNIO”; of “COMMUNIS”
- Latin root word “com” meaning “with”; and “munus” meaning “duties”
- Spanish “COMUNIÒN”
B. Saint, from Latin “SANCTUS”/Spanish “SANTO”

III. DEFINITION
A. COMMUNION - a communing; sharing of one’s thoughts and emotions.
- an intimate spiritual relationship.
- a sharing; possession in common.

B. SAINT - a holy person.
- people whom God has made holy.
- can be either a Christian who is alive on earth or one who is already in heaven.
- those whose holiness of life and heroic virtue have been confirmed and recognized by the Church’s official processes of beatification and canonization.
C. COMMUNION OF SAINTS - is the spiritual union and intercourse between all the members of the Church. The unity under and in Christ of the faithful on earth, the Souls in Purgatory and the blessed in heaven; this union exists between all Catholics on earth, the Saints and Angels in heaven and the Souls in Purgatory.

IV. THE THREE DIVISIONS OF THE CHURCH
The Church is like a large family and as in a family, there is mutual love and affection between parents and children, and all things are possessed by them in common. So in the Church there is mutual love between all the members; and the good works, the masses, prayers and merits form a common possession.

Phil 3:20-21 “…but our citizenship is in heaven from which also we eagerly await a savior, our Lord Jesus Christ, who will refashion the body of our lowliness, conforming it to the body of His glory by exerting the power by which He is able also to subject all things to himself.”

The Church is the mystical body of Christ and St. Paul, to show us the close union among Christians; he compares them to one body of which Christ is the head:

1 Cor 12:12 “…for as the body is one and hath many members, and all members of the body, many as they are, form one body, so also is it with Christ.”
St. Paul goes on to say that the eye, the hand, and the foot are all united in one body and need the help of one with the other.
1 Cor 12:26 “…and if one member suffers anything, all the members suffer with it; or if one member glory, all the members rejoice with it.”

There are three divisions of the Church:
A. Church Militant – The members of the Church of Christ living on earth at any given moment; they engaged in the warfare of earthly life.
Eph 6:10-18 “…for the rest, brethren, be strengthened in the Lord and in the might of His power. Put on the armor of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities and the powers against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness on high. Therefore, take up the armor of God that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and stand in all things perfect. Stand, therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of justice, and having your feet shod with the readiness of the gospel of peace, in all things taking up the shield of faith, with which you may be able to quench all the fiery darts of the most wicked one, and take unto you the helmet of salvation and the sword of the spirit, that is, the word of God. With all prayer and supplication pray at all times in the spirit, and therein be vigilant in all perseverance and supplication for all the saints.”
1. Against the world – 1Tim. 4:7; 2 Cor. 7:10-11; Gal. 3:22
2. Against the flesh – Rom 8:5-6, 7:14-25

1. Against the devil – James 4:6-10; 1Peter 5:8-10

Church Militant is also called a Pilgrim Church because we Christians are only pilgrims on this earth, journeying towards our fatherland, heaven (cf. Hebrews 13:14, 1Peter 2:11).

B. Church Suffering – The souls who at any given moment are detained in purgatory till they are purified and fit for their “place of refreshment, light and peace in heaven.” (cf. 1Pet 3:18-19, 4:5-6; 1Cor 3:13-15; Jude 1:22-23; 2 Mac 12:41-45; Mt 5:26). It is an article of faith that the souls in purgatory can be helped by our prayers (Council of Trent; cf. 1Tim 3:15). The practice of praying for the dead, of which there are traces in the OT ( see 2 Mac 12:46), is established in the oldest Christian tradition. It was familiar to Tertullian and St. Augustine, and is clearly exposed in the inscriptions of the catacombs and in the most ancient liturgies. It is a universal custom among Catholics, who are in the habit of saying special prayers (many of them enriched with indulgences) for the departed (Acts 9:36-41).

C. Church Triumphant – The souls in heaven. The Church Triumphant together with the Church Militant and Suffering form the one Communion of Saints.

Heb 12:22-23 “…but you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to the company of many thousands of angels, and to the Church of the firstborn who are enrolled in the heavens, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the just made perfect.”

OBJECTION 1
The Bible clearly says: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, Himself man Christ Jesus” (cf. 1Tim. 2:5).
In line with this text then, is it not a form of idolatry to pray and to ask favor to the Saints? Is it not contrary to the teaching of St. Paul that Christ is the only mediator between God and man?

Answer:
Biblically, to ask favor to the Saints both in the OT and NT is not prohibited nor a sin against God or a form of idolatry. The practice to communicate with the holy people of God to pray for us for our own good is biblically founded and is not against the sole “mediatorship” of Christ, being the savior of the world. Christ is the only mediator between man and God; and nobody else could do it but Christ alone:
1Tim 2:6 “…Who gave Himself to redeem all mankind. That was the proof at the right time that God wants everyone to be saved.”

A. The work of mediation--to help us pray that our prayers will reach heaven--has been a practice approved by God even before the time of Christ:
Job 42: 7-9 “After the Lord had finished speaking to Job, He said to Eliphaz, I am angry with you and your two friends, because you did not speak the truth about me, the way my servant Job did. Now take seven bulls and seven rams to Job and offer them as a sacrifice for yourselves. Job will pray for you, and I will answer his prayer and not disgrace you the way you deserve…Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar did what the Lord had told them to do, and God answered Job’s prayer.”

Jer 42:2-4 “Please do what we ask you! Pray to the Lord our God for us. Pray for all of us who have survived. Once there were many of us; but now only a few of us are left, as you can see. Pray that the Lord our God will show us the way we should go and what we should do. I answered, ‘Very well, then, I will pray to the Lord our God, just as you have asked, and whatever He says, I will tell you.’”

2 Mac 12:43-45 “He also took up a collection from all his men, totaling about four pounds of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. Judas did this noble thing because he believed in the resurrection of the dead. If he had not believed that the dead would be raised, it would have been foolish and useless to pray for them. In his firm and devout conviction that all of God’s faithful people would receive a wonderful reward, Judas made provision for a sin-offering to set free from their sin those who had died.”

B. Even the angels of God are praying for God’s people sent by God to help those who are to receive salvation:

Heb 1:14 “What are angels then? They are spirits who serve God and are sent by Him to help those who are to receive salvation.”

Zec 3:7 “The Lord Almighty had said: If you obey my laws and perform the duties I have assigned you, then you will continue to be in charge of my temple and its courts, and I will hear your prayers, just as I hear the prayers of the Angels who are in my presence.”
Tob 12:12, 15 “Tobit, when you and Sarah prayed to the Lord, I was the one who brought your prayers into His glorified presence. I did the same thing each time you buried the dead… I am Raphael, one of the seven Angels who stand in the glorious presence of the Lord, ready to serve Him.”

C. The work of mediation through prayers has not ceased in the NT. The Holy Spirit, the Church, and the Saints as helpers of the work of salvation initiated by Christ are doing their part for the perfection of the chosen people of God:

Jn 14:16 “I will ask the Father, and He will give you another helper, who will stay with you forever.”

Rom 8:26-27 “In the same way the Spirit also comes to help us, weak as we are. For we do not know how we ought to pray; the Spirit himself pleads with God for us in groans that words cannot express. And God, who sees into our hearts, knows what the thought of the Spirit is; because the Spirit pleads with God on behalf of His people and in accordance with His will.”

Acts 8:24 “Simon said to Peter and John, “Please pray to the Lord for me…” (Heb 13:17-19)

James 5:16 “Pray for one another, so that you will be healed. The prayer of a good person has a powerful effect.”

James 5:17-18 “Elijah was the same kind of person as we are. He prayed earnestly that there would be no rain, and no rain fell on the land for three and half years. Once again he prayed, and the sky poured out its rain and the earth produced its crops.”

D. St. Paul is teaching us to pray for the benefit of other people:

2Cor. 13:7 “We pray to God that you will do no wrong…”

1Tim. 2:1 “First of all, then, I urge that petitions, prayers, requests and thanksgiving be offered to God for all people…”
Heb 13:17-19 “Obey your leaders and follow their orders. They watch over your souls without resting, since they must give to God an account of their service. If you obey them, they will do their work gladly; if not, they will do it with sadness, and that would be of no help to you. Keep on praying for us. We are sure we have a clear conscience, because we want to do the right thing at all times. And I beg you even more earnestly to pray that God will send me back to you soon.”

OBJECTION 2
A. God is so powerful than the Saints. Christ is the way, the truth, and life (cf. Jn 14:6). And salvation is to be found through Jesus Christ alone and there is no other name in heaven and earth that could save us except the name of Christ (cf. Acts 4:10-12). Is it not proper to pray directly to God?

Answer:
We Catholics are not prohibited to pray directly to God. But the question is do we have enough merit in the eyes of God so that our prayers will surely be heard? This is what the Bible says:

Prov 28:9 “If you do not obey the law, God will find your prayers too hateful to hear.”

James 2:10 “Whoever breaks one commandment is guilty of breaking them all.”

Rom 3:23 “Everyone has sinned and is far away from God’s saving presence.”

Ecc 7:20 “There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins” (NIV ).

B. Three kinds of Righteousness:

1. Self-righteousness – righteousness without merits (Lk 16:15).

Rom 10:2-3 “For I bear them record that they have zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they were ignorant of God’s righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God” (KJV ).

1. Righteousness inspired by the devil:
   2Cor 11:14-15 “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transferred into an angel of light, therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works” (KJV).

2. God’s righteousness:
   Mt 6:33 “But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you” (KJV).

Rev 1:5-6 “And from Jesus Christ… who is also the ruler of the kings of the word. He loves us, and by His sacrificial death He has freed us from our sins and made us a kingdom of priests to serve His God and Father” (GNB ).

C. Prayer of saintly people is effective and righteous in the sight of God.

Prov 15:8 “The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord: but the prayer of the upright is His delight” (KJV).

Prov 15:29 “The Lord is far from the wicked: but He heareth the prayer of the righteous” (KJV).

James 5:16 “The prayer of a good person has a powerful effect” (GNB).

D. It is God’s will and delight that holy people must mediate and bring our prayers into His glorious presence.

Job 42:8-9 “Now, take seven bulls and seven rams to Job and offer them as a sacrifice for yourselves. Job will pray for you, and I will answer his prayer and not disgrace you the way you deserve. You did not speak the truth about me as he did. Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar did what the Lord had told them to do, and He answered Job’s prayer.”

OBJECTION 3
It’s true that holy people or saints can help us through their intercession and prayers to God for our merits, that is, if they are still with us on earth. But after death they can no longer pray for us because the dead can no longer praise God; the dead know nothing:

Ps 115:17 “The Lord is not praise by the dead, by any who go down to the land of silence.”

Ecc 9:5-6 “Yes, the living know they are going to die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward; they are completely forgotten.”

Answer:
The truth written in Psalm 115:17 and Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 definitely explained what will happen to our body after death. It will return to dust (cf. Gen 3:19; Ecc 12:7) and our body will know nothing after death.

Ps 30:9 “What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? Shall it declare thy truth?”

But after death the soul or spirit of man will not suffer corruption like the body.  Consciousness of the soul will remain intact even after its separation from the body, wherever they will be, be it in heaven or hell.

Mt 10:28 “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul…”

Ecc 12:7 “then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”

Lk 16:22-24 “The poor man died and was carried by the angels to sit beside Abraham at the feast in heaven. The rich man died and was buried, and in Hades, where he was in great pain, he looked up and saw Abraham, far, away; with Lazarus at his side, so ha called out Father Abraham! Take pity on me…”

Tob 4:3 “When God shall take my soul, thou shalt bury my body…” (DV ).

If the prayers of the Saints could help us a lot when they are still in their bodies on earth, have they lost their power to pray for us now that they are with God in heaven?  This will not happen. Angel’s are pure spirits, a creature without a body but could help to offer our prayers to God.  In like manner, the Saints in heaven could do it too:

Tob 12:12,15 “Tobit, when you and Sarah prayed to the Lord, I was the one who brought your prayers into His glorious presence, I did the same thing each time you buried the dead… I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand in the glorious presence of the Lord.”

Phil 1:23 “I am pulled in two directions. I want very much to leave this life and be with Christ, which is a far better thing…”

1Cor 5:3-4 “And even though I am far away from you in body, still I am there with in spirit; and as though I were there with you, I have in the name of our Lord Jesus already passed judgment on the man who has done this terrible thing. As you meet together, and I meet with you in my spirit, by the power of our Lord Jesus present with us.”

Rev 6:9 “I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held…”

Rev 5:8 “Having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints” (KJV).

Rev 8:3-4 “And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the Saints, ascended up before God out the angel’s hand” (KJV).

Eph 6:18 “…praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereto with all perseverance and supplication for all Saints.”

V. THE COMMUNION OF SAINTS’ ACTIVE PARTICIPATION
A. It is shared by the angels and by those non-Catholics in good faith who belong to Church invisibly.
B. Prayer is of all the things of the Spirit the one in which this communion or fellowship is most active: The living pray to God and the blessed on behalf of the suffering and to God in honor of the blessed.
C. The blessed intercede with God for the suffering and the living.
D. The holy souls pray to God and the blessed for others.
E. By virtue of His merits, Christ intercedes continually for the living and the dead.
F. Strictly speaking, isolated prayer, or any other activity, does not exist for the Christian, in so far as he can do or suffer nothing without reference to other Christians.
G. Within the Church Militant, the Communion of Saints (redeemed ones) is exemplified in a special way by their participation in a common faith, reception of common sacraments, and acknowledgment of a common supranational authority, and that interdependence whereby every deed of each member affects for good or ill of the whole body.

Heb 12:22-24 “Instead, you have come to mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, with its thousands of angels. You have come to the joyful gathering of God’s firstborn sons, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, who is the judge of all mankind, and to the spirits of good people made perfect. You have come to Jesus who arranged the New Covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that promises much better things than does the blood of Abel.”

2 Mac. 12:43-45 “He also took a collection from all his men totaling about four pounds of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin-offering in his firm and devout conviction that all of God’s faithful people would receive a wonderful reward, Judas made provision for a sin-offering to set free from their sin those who had died.”

Sir 7:33 “Be generous to every living soul, and be gracious to the memory of the dead” (GNB).

Sir 44:1-2 “So let us now give praise to godly men, our ancestors of generations past, men whom the Lord honored with great glory” (GNB).

Rev. 5:8 “…having every one of them, harps and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints (KJV).

Rev.8:3-4 “And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne and the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand” (KJV).

1Peter 4:5-6 “But they will have to give an account of themselves to God, who is ready to judge the living and the dead; that is why the good news was preached also to the dead, to those who had been judged; it was preached to them so that in their spiritual existence they may live as God lives.”

1Cor. 12:12 “Christ is like a single body, which has many parts; it is still one body, even though it is made up of different parts.”

1Cor. 12:26 “If one part of the body suffers, all the other parts suffer with it; if one part is praised, all the other parts share its happiness.

Therefore between whom does this Communion of Saints exist?  This union exists between all Catholics on earth, the saints and angels in heaven, and the souls in purgatory (cf. Heb 12:22-24; 1Peter 3:18-19; Acts 8:24; Rev 5:8).  The Church is like a large family and as a family there is mutual love and affection between parents and children, and all things are possessed by them in common; so in the Church, there is mutual love among all the members; the good works, the masses, prayers, and merits form a common possession (cf. 1Cor. 12:14-27).

VI. IS IT TRUE THAT ONLY THE SOULS IN HEAVEN ARE CALLED SAINTS?
A. No, the Christians living on earth are also Saints because they are members of Christ’s body, which is holy; and because they are made holy by baptism (see Eph 5:26-27) and other sacraments, and by sanctifying grace:
Col 1:2 “To the Saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colossae, grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and Lord Jesus Christ.”

1Cor 14:33 “…for God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all Churches of the Saints” (KJV).

Here and elsewhere he called his brothers and sisters in Christ, saints based of the letters of St. Paul.

B. Christians in the state of mortal sin cannot strictly be called holy, but they are all called, and expected to be, saints. Naturally, Christians who are dead in sin do not share fully in the graces and privileges conferred by the communion of saints; but still they profit by them to a considerable degree. Hence a non-practicing Christian has many advantages over one who is not a Christian at all (cf. 1Pet 1:15-16, 2:9; Mt 5:48).
In conclusion, we belong to a glorious army of which Christ is the leader. Let us resolve to do battle valiantly in company with the triumphant, suffering, and militant members, and we shall one day share Christ’s glory (cf. 1Cor. 12:12-26; Eph 5:23-27, 6:10-18; Heb 12:21-27).

OBJECTION 1
Is it not written in the Bible that St. Paul says, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (see 1Tim 2:5). If this is so, why do Catholics pray to the saints when in fact they are not gods? Is this not a form of idolatry?

Answer:
A. Being the redeemer of the world by offering, Christ is the only mediator between God and men, by offering His precious blood once and for all.

1Tim 2:5-6 “For there is one God, and there is one who brings God and mankind together, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself to redeem all mankind. That was the proof at the right time that God wants everyone to be saved.”

Eph 2:18 “It is through Christ that all of us, Jews and Gentiles, are able to come in the one spirit into the presence of the Father (cf. 1Pet 1:18-19).

B. As a helper, the work of mediation is not a task exclusive to Christ alone. In the name of Christ, God the Father sent a helper, the Holy Spirit to stay with us and to pray for us to become sons of God:

Jn 14:26 “The Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and make you remember all that I have told you.”

Rom 8:26-27 “In the same way the Spirit also comes to help us, weak as we are. For we do not know how we ought to pray; the Spirit himself pleads with God for us in groans that words cannot express. And God, who sees into our hearts, knows what the thought of the Spirit is; because the Spirit pleads with God on behalf of His people and in accordance with His will.”

Gal 4:6-7 “To show that you are His sons, God sent the Spirit of His son into our Hearts, the Spirit who cries out, ‘Father, my Father.’”

C. It is also the task of all the Saints to pray for us, as member of the mystical body (cf. 1Cor. 12:26). It is not a form of idolatry because Catholics never consider the Saints as gods, but as the ones closer to God, having favor with all the people to pray for them. Biblically, it has been a practice in the Old and New Testament to pray for somebody in need of their help to pray for them to God.

Jer 42:2-4 “And said to me, please do what we ask you! Pray to the Lord our God for us. Pray for all of us who have survived. Pray that the Lord our God will show us the way we should go and what we should do.” I answered, “Very well, then. I will pray to the Lord our God, just as you have asked, and whatever He says, I will tell you.”

Acts 8:24 “Simon said to Peter and John, ‘Please pray to the Lord for me, so that none of these things you spoke of will happen to me.’”

OBJECTION 2
Is it not more practical and more effective to pray directly to God rather than to surrender our hope to the Saints? God is so powerful and merciful. Surely, He will listen to all our prayers even without the help and mediation of the saints, isn’t it?

Answer:
A. There is no doctrine in the Catholic Church prohibiting their members to pray directly to God. We can do as we wanted to do to communicate directly to God, but the question is, are we meritorious enough like the saints so that our prayers will be answered according to His divine will? Not all who prayed directly to God merits His positive answer, as revealed in the Bible:

Prov 28:9 “If you do not obey the law, God will find your prayers too hateful to hear.”
Isa 59:1-2 “Don’t think that the Lord is too weak to save you or too dead to hear your call for help! It is because of your sins that He doesn’t hear you. It is your sins that separate you from God when you try to worship Him.”

Rom 3:23 “Everyone has sinned and is far away from God’s saving presence.”

James 2:10 “Whoever breaks one commandment is guilty of breaking them all.”

James 2:14, 26 “My brothers, what good is it for someone to say that he has faith if his actions do not prove it? Can that faith save him? So then, as the body without the spirit is dead, also faith without actions is dead.”

Ecc 7:20 “For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good and sinneth not.”

B. Not all righteous are sinless (cf. Ecc 7:20), whose prayers are delightful to God’s will (Lk 16:15).

Three Kinds of Righteousness:

1. Self-righteousness – righteousness without merits in the eyes of God:
   Lk 16:15 “Jesus said, ‘You are the ones who make yourselves look right in other people’s sight, but God knows your hearts. For the things that are considered of great value by man are worth nothing in God’s sight.’”

2. Righteousness inspired by the devil:
   2 Cor. 11:14-15 “Well, no wonder! Even Satan can disguise himself to look like an angel of light! So it is no great thing if his servants disguise themselves to look like servants of righteousness. In the end, they will get exactly what their actions deserve!

3. God’s righteousness – righteousness according to the will of God.
   Rom 10:3-4 “For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God” (KJV).

Mt 6:33 “But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you” (KJV).

Rev 5:10 “You have made them a kingdom of priests to serve our God, and they shall rule on earth.”

We have proven that there are righteous people but not according to the knowledge of God and it is difficult for them to be saved.  If we are one of them, how could our personal prayer merit positive response when in fact it is an abomination in His judgment without the help of the saints.

1Pet 4:18 “It is difficult for good people to be saved; what, then, will become of godless sinners?

C. But the prayer of God’s righteous people is His delight:
Prov 15:8, 29 “The Lord is pleased when good men pray, but hates the sacrifices that wicked men bring Him… When good people pray, the Lord listens, but He ignores those who are evil.”

James 5:16 “The prayer of a good person has a powerful effect.”

D. It is of God’s will and direction that we need the help of saintly people to mediate and pray for us to God:
Job 42:8-9 “Now take seven bulls and seven rams to Job and offer them as a sacrifice for yourselves, Job will pray for you, and I will answer his prayer and not disgrace you the way you deserve… Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar did what the Lord had told them to do, and the Lord answered Job’s prayer.”

OBJECTION 3
Saintly people can mediate and pray for us when they were still living on earth. But after death they can no longer do anything because dead persons perished with their bodies on the ground:

Ps 115:17 “The Lord is not praised by the dead, by any who go down to the land of silence.”

Ecc 9:5-6 “Yes, the living knows they are going to die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward; they are completely forgotten. Their loves, their hates, their passions, all died with them. They will never again take part in anything that happens in this world.”

Answer:
A. Physical death is not a cease of life but separation of body and soul.
Mt 10:28 “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul…”

Ecc 12:7 “Our bodies will return to the dust of the earth, and the breath (spirit) of life will go back to God, who gave it to us.”

B. Only the body dies and suffers corruption physically but not the soul; but not the soul.
Sir 10:11 “When a person dies, all he then possesses is worms, flies, and maggots.”

C. The soul will remain in existence even in the absence of the body. It’s the body that knows not anything but not the soul.
Ps 30:9 “What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? Shall it declare thy truth?” (KJV).

D. The soul will not suffer corruption like the body after death. Consciousness, knowledge and understanding will not perish in the soul apart from the body.
Lk 16:22-24 “The poor man died and was carried by the angels to sit beside Abraham at the feast in heaven. The rich man died and was buried, and in Hades, where he was in great pain, he looked up and saw Abraham, far away, with Lazarus at his side. So he called out, Father Abraham! Take pity on me…”

Rev 20:4 “Then I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given the power to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been executed because they had proclaimed the truth that Jesus revealed and the Word of God.”

Rev 6:9-10 “Then the lamb broke open the fifth seal. I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been killed because they had proclaimed God’s word and had been faithful in their witnessing. They shouted in a loud voice, ‘Almighty Lord, holy and true! How long will it be until you judge the people on earth and punish them for killing us?’”

E. Through the power of Jesus Christ, the souls or spirits of the Saints can do favor and pray for us even in the absence of their bodies. In heaven they become partakers of the divine nature of God.
2Pet 1:4 “Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises! That by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature…”

1Jn 3:2 “But it is not yet clear what we shall become. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him as He really is.”

1Cor 5:3-4 “And even though I am far away from you in body, still I am there with you in spirit; and as though I were there with you, I have in the name of our Lord Jesus already passed judgment on the man who has done this terrible thing. As you meet together, and I meet with you in my Spirit, by the power of our Lord Jesus present with us.”
Rev 5:8 “Having every one of them, harps and golden vials, full or odors, which are the prayers of the saints” (KJV).

Rev 8:3-4 “And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints…”

F. It is the will of God that we must do minister with the saints so that in the after life they will receive us into everlasting habitation.
Mt 10:41 “And whoever welcomes a good man because he is good, will share in his reward.”

Lk 16:9 “And Jesus went to say, ‘And so I tell you: make friends for yourselves with worldly wealth, so that when it gives out, you will be welcomed in the eternal home.’”

Eph 6:18 “…praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all Saints”

Heb 6:10 “For God is not unrighteousness to forget your work and labor of love, which ye have showed toward His name, in that ye have ministered to the Saints, and do minister.”

Col 1:4 “Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the Saints.”

OBJECTION 4
A. To pray to the saints and angels is a kind of worship prohibited in the Bible:
Acts 10:25-26 “Peter was about to go in, Cornelius met him, fell at his feet, and bowed down before him. But Peter made him rise. ‘Stand up,’ he said, ‘I myself am only a man.”
Rev 22: 8-9 “I, John, have heard and seen all these things. And when I finished hearing and seeing them, I fell down at the feet of the things, and I was about to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do it!” I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brothers the prophets and of all those who obey the words in this book, worship God!”

Answer:
The kind of worship prohibited in the Bible to be given to the Saints, any person or angel is Latria, a form of worship which is exclusive to God alone. By the way, what’s the meaning of worship?
A. Worship – from Hebrew “Shahah” = bow down, prostrate; Greek “Proskyneo” = to prostrate, do obeisance
Obeisance: deep respect, a bow or curtsey, a salutation made by bending the knees, reverence, homage.
Worship: the honor, reverence, and homage paid to superior being or powers, whether men, angels or God.

From “worthship” which denotes the worthiness of the individual receiving special honor due to his worth.

1. For God, Isa 60:14 “The sons of those who oppressed you will come and bow low to show their respect.”
2. For Angels, Gen 19:1 “When the two angels came to Sodom that evening, Lot was sitting at the city gate. As soon as he saw them, he got up and went to meet them. He bowed down before them and said, ‘Sirs, I am here to serve you.’”
3. For Man (Holy), Dan 2:46-47 “Then King Nebuchadnezzar bowed to the ground and gave orders for sacrifices and offerings to be made to Daniel. The King said, ‘Your God is the greatest of all Gods, the Lord over kings, and the one who reveal mysteries. I know this because you have been able to explain this mystery.’”

B. Another Hebrew word of worship is “abad” – to serve
THREE KINDS OF WORSHIP

1. Latria or Adoration – worship exclusive to God alone.
   Mt 4:10 “For it is written, thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and Him only shall thou serve.”

2. Hyperdulia – Highest veneration and respect paid to Mary by angels and all people, all generations as the Mother of God.
   Lk 1:28 “And the angel came in unto her, and said, ‘Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women.’”
   Lk 1:41-42 “And it come to pass, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe in her womb leapt. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and cried out with a loud voice, saying, ‘Blessed are thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.’”
   Lk 1:48 “For behold, henceforth, all generations shall call be blessed.”

3. Dulia – veneration and respect given to all the Angels and Saints.
   Gen 18:2-3 “He looked up and saw three men standing there. As soon as he saw them, he ran out to meet them. Bowing down with his face touching the ground…”
   Acts 16:29-31 “The jailer called for a light, rushed in, and fell trembling at the feet of Paul and Silas. Then, he led them out and asked, ‘Sirs, what must I do to be saved?’ They answered, ‘Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved - you and your family.’”
   Tob 12:15-16 “I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand in the glorious presence of the Lord, ready to serve Him. Tobit and Tobias were terrified and fell to the ground, trembling with fear. But Raphael said to them. ‘Don’t be afraid; everything is all right.’”

   So it’s crystal clear that we do not adore the Saints but we venerate them. It’s not a form of idolatry to ask for their help to pray for us to God because it is biblically founded.