Don't Worry... Re: Hard Fork 20, They Will Fix It One Way Or Another
I am not formatting this post because frankly it doesn't matter (plus I don't want to use any more resource credits than necessary). Anyways, my friends can't really use the platform and wouldn't spend any of their resources commenting even if they could (the genius that thought they would, should be fired @ned).
So... here goes:
Hard Fork 20 will get fixed one way or another. That's a fact. How do I know you ask?
No sane person would ever "pay" (or use resource credits) to make a comment on a social media site. So either all comments stop and we cease to be a social media site, or Steemit fixes it.
If common everyday people can't use the site to do anything, they will leave. So either the 80 to 90% of the people that can't do anything right now leave, or or Steemit fixes it.
Promising projects like Steem Monsters will go elsewhere so their users can "use" the system. So either these projects find other blockchains, or Steemit fixes it.
This is a binary situation. There is no middle ground. You can't have shades of truth on this one. If people have to pay anything meaningful to make a comment, buy a steemmonster card, or even vote a witness; then you can bet your ass they will not do so and will leave. So the question isn't "will Steemit will fix the problem?", the question is "how much damage will Steemit let be done before they fix the problem?".
Its simple and very easy to understand. So don't worry, even tech geniuses that talk to themselves instead of interacting with the people will figure it out. Sooner or later it will get fixed, one way or another!
So don't worry ;)
ps... @fulltimegeek is now a witness. Lets all go vote for him and get him in the top 20.
Well I think I am leaving if this doesn't clear up fast. I have my own website and other social media accounts that don't cause these headaches. I earn off them as much as I earn here and everyone can participate without the need for any credit, power, rank or crypto etc... So why bother if steemit is going to make it so difficult now?
That's what I'm trying to make the point about. Its exactly people like you that @ned should be listening to. You are here until you're gone. I only hope they fix it properly and in time to save the majority from leaving. I only care to the extent that I have friends here and I hate to see a community split up, but I realize that many people have needs and thresholds that only they can deal with. Let's hope they get to it soon! Thanks for the comment!
Well I have been planning on spending more time on here again (finally) but now with the new HF I am really unsure. I think a huge part of building a following involves commenting and engaging with others - meeting new people. And if there is a limit to this then newer accounts will find it harder than it already is to gain traction.
Seems like this will just make it harder for smaller accounts while larger more established accounts will just coast along
I agree that it is a reason to pause and think through your plans. I wish I could tell you that it will be fixed (and maybe it will), but that remains to be seen in the next few days and weeks. They say they hear the points and will make changes, so we'll see.
And I agree completely with your assessment regarding the small accts and the larger ones. You are spot on!
Especially since following someone and voting for witnesses also consumes resource credits. Just pointing that out.
Thanks - seems like I have to do a bit more reading and evaluating about the changes from HF20
I am going take this opportunity to say fuck everything.
Fuck mana
Fuck resource credits
Fuck people being so pissy lately
Fuck having to work for a living
I hope everyone leaves so I can take all the reward pool and talk to my various personalities via alts.
This whole situation is hilarious. I mean who actually came up with charging people to interact? I 100% understand why new took out a huge chunk of steem before this. If he would have put as much thought onto actually making a productive hard fork and addressing the old problems instead of just creating new ones as he did planning on robbing the piggy bank then we might actually have something useable. Unfortunately he pressed 2 for espanol. Which is wierd because I thought he had a thing for Asian chicks. What number do you press for that?
I don't even know what to say!That is the most direct comment I think I've ever received on this site! Tell us how you really think @doomsdaychassis! lol
That was just horrible. That man should be ashamed of himself.
Why would I pay to comment or post here? I can literally go to my Google+, Facebook, Twitter, Minds, Gab, Instagram or other numerous social medias and post what I post for free anyway, I'm not particularly controversial. =\ Plus I also have my own VPS running my own Oxwall installation where I post as well and literally earn more from that Oxwall installation than I do on Steemit.
Steemit is just yet another platform, nothing insanely special for me.
I agree with you completely... to think that we don't have alternatives is a little arrogant from where we sit right now!
I don’t claim to be a tech expert and I do have my concerns about the RC system, but we’re still quite soon after the fork and waiting for the new system to calculate & reach equilibrium. These costs aren’t fixed and are falling as seen here.
For the first time ever, Steemit plastered a news banner on the site, and “The Steem blockchain was upgraded on September 25th. You may experience trouble posting and transacting while the new bandwidth system stabilizes.” is wholly accurate right now.
The best thing we can do right now, as more senior accounts with greater flexibility to interact, is keep using the chain and feeding the new RC system more data.
At the moment, there’s little to fix. It’s a waiting game. We don’t need to plug a hole in the pool, we just need to wait for the garden hose to fill it.
I’ll consider the new system a failure if weeks from now it hasn’t substantially reduced the cost of small accounts to interact from HF19 levels. Users have needed about 15 SP (delegated freely from Steemit Inc.) to have a standard user experience without bandwidth errors. I expect the RC credit system when in balance, to greatly reduce this number, or else Steem cannot scale up. That’s my fear right now, but I’ll be watching the RC costs fall and cheering on the way down, or sweating & biting my nails if they climb!
I hope you are right and the RC costs fall. Its a big deal, as you so rightly point out!
Currently you need a 7 SP account to make 1 comment a day and that is all that account can do. Before hardfork it was in the 1.5-3 SP range and easily make 2 comments an hour. I hope that those with larger RC holdings make more comments in order to drive the price down.
The witnesses applied a patch to fix the negative RC amounts people had, they basically airdropped enough RCs into the accounts to bring them to 0.
When they airdropped the RC tokens to everyone via patch they should have given everyone a bump to bring them above 0 to double or 3x the amount they gave out so that we could interact and burn them on the way down while driving the price of transactions down.
I was one of those afflicted with a 4 Quadrillion RC deficit that first day! 😂
Most folks are panicking thinking of a simple market system where more activity can only drive prices up, but the RC system is obviously a different beast in its allocation of blockchain resources.
I’m trying to make an effort to be especially active right now to do some small part in reaching equilibrium sooner.
very very good points here @thanksforplaying! I'm with you on doing something as simple as that!
Well lets hope they hurry and fix it
Congrats to the geek
Signed your friend who has 5 comments left
hehe... you wasted your mana on me :) ... thank you @headchange :D
From what I heard RC can be delegated.
Sources are basing it off this: https://steemit.com/gathering/@ned/secret-steem-advantage
By the looks of it-Steem trying to copy EOS ram market which is not that great. https://captainaltcoin.com/ram-and-price-problems-for-eos-is-there-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel/
Ohh I'm definitely checking that out... I hope to hell they aren't following this path by design. Is there anyone up there with any common sense? Who the hell would pay to make a comment? (more than these few we are making to make a point)... I mean seriously, what kind of behavior are they trying to incentivize?
I think you’re a bit hung up on the idea of “paying to comment.” We’ve been doing it all along, but they just called it bandwidth, same difference.
Delegating RCs independent of SP makes sense for sites and apps built on Steem. dApps could carve out bandwidth for their sites/customers specifically so that users can sign up at no cost and start with a fully functional experience, without delegating out precious SP.
Unless a high SP holder is running an automated comment/vote/transaction bot of some sort, they’ll never come close to using all their RC. I’d gladly delegate some to other projects.
I understand your comment and we will see how it unfolds. The fact that they gave us enough so that we didn't notice we were using any meaningful bandwidth and thus didn't notice any cost maybe made that work. Where the argument will bear out (either way) is what happened to that bandwidth we were using before... If they took it away from the 80 to 90%ers and gave it to the 1%ers, and now expect those people to start paying to get it back, then I think they will find that isn't going to go according to plan. And the point about the large RC holders delegating their newly gained RCs to the masses isn't going to fly either. This place was already bad enough in the hoops people went through to get votes to make a living, there will be very few that will jump through those same hoops to be able to make a comment or buy a steemmonster card. It might seem like a great idea to the people at the top to "lord" over the resources of the platform, but the people at the bottom will have a different view if the things they can do will change. Trust me or not, its up to you... I'm just telling you what I see and hear from many of the people on the streets (so to speak)
I wouldn’t expect end users to jump through hoops to purchase delegated RCs, but I would expect businesses on the chain to do so. A business like Steem Monsters may choose to buy RCs to make it so that actions done in their markets & tournaments don’t deduct from the end user but from the platform instead. If Steem Monsters uses a lot of infrastructure writing details of card collections & tournaments into the blockchain, delegation will allow them to foot the bill for that, build it into their pack prices, and create a seamless experience for their end users.
It’s kind of like how certain cell phone carriers will partner with music or video streaming services that don’t count toward your monthly GB data allowance. They’re footing the bill to give a customer perk.
Either way the network costs need paid. The biggest question asked about Steem is, “Where does the money come from?” and it comes from us. Facebook is going to pick up the server tab for all your actions because it has a business model that is built into. I envision many applications and businesses picking up the RC tab for their users in much the same way; but of course users here can stockpile their own resources over time, be self sufficient, and are bound to no single application.
But all that is big business conjecture. I still believe all that bandwidth wasn’t shunted into the hands of the elite, the new RC system is simply feeling out available resources vs. transaction volume. I think a normal user experience with minimal SP will be reached in the coming days.
thank you for your time and for your explanations. I understand and appreciate your point of view!
Thanks for the conversation! It’s a little quiet on Steem right now for some reason! 😂
I enjoy thinking theoretically about the application of changes like this, SMTs, etc. Its a mind bending future to try to predict, but fun!
I think I have a more relaxed attitude just from being around a bit longer. I used to be able to look at every single post made, and there was no option to follow people! I’ve been through the hard fork that changed the rewards curve and inadvertently “drained the rewards pool.” People didn’t earn rewards for a month, so this hiccup in bandwidth and voting power seems less consequential.
People who just kept doing their thing during the “great reward drought” did best. They continued to build audiences, polished their skills, and reap the benefits to this day, outperforming peers who gave up out of frustration & later came back, or consciously stopped posting for a month because there was no immediate monetary reward. That’s a lesson I carry into this post HF20 environment for sure.
I get that last point for sure... I'm not even complaining for myself btw... I have enough RC to do what I need... But there are many many of my friends that don't, so those are the people I'm hoping they address and fix... It looks like they are putting a patch to at least up the amount by 10x... that should at least take some people off the do not do anything list! I'm happy to at least see some response!
Thank you for the nice conversation and yes had it not been for this slow time, I might never have carried on this pleasant conversation with you! Nice to meet you and again thank you for your interesting insights and perspective!
as long as it not going to fuck up like eos ram market was i like it :)
So all day I have tried to be upbeat. Telling people things will level out. That link makes this look planned. No matter what you have to admit it looks really bad.
If that turns out to be the case it is really game over.
lets give it a few weeks and see how it shakes out... frankly I don't think they are that stupid to follow through with it even if they planned it.
Well I am allowed to speak in public again so that is an improvement. Must say all that reading of what the important people has to say was very much an eye opener.
Can I have Black?
yeahhhh... that's great! Congrats that you now your free speech again!
And black it is... do you know the name of your summoner? or any of the monsters you want? You have 20 mana... (ps if you don't know then I will guide you) ;)
I am still reading the conversations, thinking about where the platform is headed, and figuring out where I may fit into that.
I will get my head back in the cards. Learning the Steem game this week though. 🎲
Don't say it I already see the advantage of Monster mashing.
Let me get back with you on cards. Maybe I will see what I think and you can advise if I am thinking right?
hahaha... deal... and yes you can get your head around the platform and also the Monsters... I think its only guys that are limited to one thing at a time! :D
ned is trying to make steem an eos compeiter as well hence why SMT and DPOS Oracle's. with this rc delegation it be complete. this in theory would make steem more valuable but at what cost?
good find there.. it does seem to point to that as the plan... I hope not, omgosh that would be a deathblow for the small frys
welp was going to explain to you why it migut be good but someone beat me to it :P
They have no choice but to fix it. If @ned just thinks this is going to go away over time like aired issues with previous hard forks, he is mistaken, because this time it is different. We've just essentially introduced a tax on everything in the Steem ecosystem and it doesn't just affect posting content, it affects every dApp building on Steem.
DLive copped a lot of flak for leaving, they got downvoted into oblivion and people were understandably mad (including me), but this hard fork is so bad that I now understand why DLive left.
I would not actually blame @steemmonsters if they decided it wasn't feasible to remain on the Steem blockchain, given they're called Steem Monsters (emphasis on Steem) something tells me that probably will not happen.
I actually backed the Steem Monsters Kickstarter which is ending in a few days and the timing for those guys probably couldn't be worse. I am very worried for them, but hopefully given they exceeded their $50k target, Steemit Inc gets their act together and realises there is a lot of good in the ecosystem, too much to stifle.
I am in the process of building a couple of dApps on Steem and these latest changes if they remain are seriously offputting. I understand resource credits are meant to compliment SMT's, but we're not getting SMT's for another six or so months.
This damn comment is going to cost me a fortune.
hahaha... yes you just ate up 1/2 your daily RCs on that comment :) ... very good analysis and I completely agree. I hope they realize what a bullshit position it puts @steemmonsters in (along with the other apps as you mentioned). Matt quit his job to work full-time on steemmonsters, so I hope to hell they have a solution to quickly support that project. I too support them and participated in their Kickstarter, and frankly if they go, then I'd follow because I think its a helluva a good idea.
I'm not getting into the technical aspects of the RCs (I love your tax analogy), because I am a simple guy. If people that are average and ordinary can use it and have fun (and maybe earn a little too), then I'm confident it will be accepted. But if they have to use their mana to do things that most would think are free, then they will simply cease to do those things. Its a simple concept and I hope to hell these guys learn it sooner rather than later!
Thanks for the comment and for using 1/2 of today's RCs :)
The fact of the matter is, no one really cares about steemit. I enjoy reading and talking to people here but there aren't whole lot of us. Also steem price is independent of steemit. Like most crypto, its governed by trading.
Hey @mightypanda! I think you meant to say no one at the top cares about steemit... I think many of the people that interact here everyday care and some of them actually make their living here too. But your point is taken, the people in charge don't view this anything more than a test or proof of concept. I will say that they better be careful what results they get now because they might prove something they didn't intend to!
And I don't think you are completely correct on the value of the steem price being only on the mechanics of the coin. If that were true, they sure do have a lot of infrastructure built up around it that will cease to exist (and thus not need steem). Its kinda like the US Dollar... It seems to have value until people don't need it for transactions any more. Maybe you're right and they think that way, I am willing to bet you they will pay a hefty price is they have that hubris in their minds though.
usability of a coin is a facade. This is true for most of the coin. Bitcoins are supposed to be used for payments, but no one uses them for payment. This is the early stage of DotCom boom. Most coin if not all will disappear.
All of steem infrastructure are necessary for the illusion of progress. It doesn't have to really work. See EOS. No products are built on it but its way more worth than steem.
I agree... its definitely a facade... in fact it all becomes apparent when there is no need/demand anymore... The fact is that it was always an arbitrary value, but propped up by the utility of the services built to use it... Take those away and the whole thing crumbles.
Maybe dLive and @jerrybanfield were right when they left, but that is just speculation so we have to give this thing some time. I do have a question I tried to vote @fulltimegeek as a witness but wasn't able to, is this an HF20 problem.
you should now be able to vote @fulltimegeek as a witness. If you tried it today, then its another issue because I did it with my account and I know of at least 10 others that voted him too... You have to "write him in" though... if you haven't done that before, just scroll to the bottom and type in his name!
and I don't know why those two left, but I do know this is one of the dumbest things I've seen in a long time. I do hope it gets fixed and I will give them time :)
Ok, yes I copy/pasted the name, this time I wrote it and it went through, so that is one more vote.
awesome! Good job and I'm sure @fulltimegeek will be a great top 20 witness when we get him there! :)
hahaha :) ... thanks for using your hardearned RCs to comment here Doc! I will be very happy when they straighten this thing out though (my discord has been buzzing all day) :D