The crux of Leftist thinking has nothing to do with Marx..

in #blog6 years ago

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The discussion between the benefits and drawbacks of economic/political systems is ongoing and forever circling around in on themselves.
Usually discussions end with the predictable kind of entrenchment and one ideology firing shots at the other, both unwilling to move from their position.
I understand this, I really do.

But we need to move on from this, to change anything.
It is frustrating, time consuming, and rarely productive.

And so, in reflection of the views and discussions that I have had recently, I was trying to somewhat 'think outside the box' as a way to express what I 'know' to be a truthful picture, re economic systems.

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....put down yer shovels down, there is no need for ideological entrenchment in this post...

And so I came up with this.....(well, I'm sure I'm not the first...I'm not that arrogant!)

@freenbornangel gave a very good (imo) and very positive definition of what 'communistic ethos' is.

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This is one that most left leaning, and well intentioned people could probably identify with.

I really do believe in the innate good of peoples, and that it far outweighs the negative aspects of humanity.

...It is in this vein that I wish to destroy utterly, the basic misconceptions about communism and socialism.

I see the supporters of leftist, communist doctrine as..
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I wish to show a bigger picture, as I feel that this fundamental flaw I'm talking about (but yet to talked about) is the problem.
Misunderstanding this basic law of nature, ( never even thinking about it perhaps?), limits the broader view, and blinds people to the bigger picture...

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So this got me thinking. The conflict, the disconnect, has nothing to do with political systems, or economic systems.
Nada.
Arguments in support of whatever ideology emerge from the understandings of that ideology.
Leave aside these intellectual jousting of specific ideas, we need to backtrack...

A loooooooong way...

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Pushing string...communism.

Pulling string... Capitalism.

Pushing string is an impossible task, no matter the good intentions.
The pusher wants to move the string. His intentions may be noble.
It's still impossible.

Pushing the string involves much more force and coercion. ('persuading' it to move in the right direction)
Pushing the string causes twists and turns and an due to this, an inefficient use of energy.

Taking capitalism as pulling the string, it all becomes very much simpler, without as much force, and far more energy efficient.

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.... only works as a political and economic model, if it is a true statement.

But how do we decide if it is true or not?

Historical knowledge is the only measure we can use with any degree of certainty to try and gauge if this statement is true or not.
Looking back at what has been is by far the most accurate way to glean any truths from human behavioral traits or patterns.
It is not hypothetical. It is real people, living out their real lives, doing real actions, in real places.

If this is the tool we are using, then it can be seen that this definition does not work, or has never worked in history, from the small tribe to the nation state.

Why not?

Because it comes from a perspective that believes altruism is real and contributes towards a successful social model.

As does communism.

IS ALTRUISM REAL... OR NOT?

That's it. The crux of the matter.
All of it.
The whole leftist mess, and why it's politics and economics are built on air.
Is it real - or is it selfishness in disguise?

We are all individual biological units with the desire to replicate our genes.
This is fact supported by approximately every living life form on the entire planet.
It has a such a weight of evidence in it's favor to support this, as to qualify it as being called a 'fact'.
(A fairly leftist perspective, actually.)

The individual is the lowest common denominator. This is also fact.

Altruism v self interest.

As an individual biological unit, there are not many that would give up their life selflessly for another human being.
Those choosing to do so – from 'altruistic motivations' – are making a choice of a 'which gives me less pain'.
To live without another person in your life for example, may mean sacrificing your own life for them to live.

This is real, and may appear to be altruistic- but it is self interest in so much as choosing an action which causes them the least amount of pain.
These are the extreme exceptions to the rule of course.

In normal life, and normal circumstances, you make sure 'you are alright', first. A selfish action.

History tells us that naked self interest always takes the higher priority over altruism.
The default setting of the human biological unit is selfishness.
It makes total evolutionary sense, and is pure logic.

How do we know this to be true though, with just human society..?
Simple.

Altruistic acts concerning life and death become the things of legend, of myth. The story of the hero.
There is a reason for that.
Because these acts are so uncommon. They make the news, that's why.

If it were commonplace, it would garner no special attention or status. None.
So if they are uncommon acts, then naked self interest are common acts..
It's 'normal'.

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This fundamental change of perspective is HUGE. ( I even put it in capital letters- just to show how huge we are talking).

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This belief in altruism illustrates the fundamental flaw in socialist and communist mind set.
Consciously thinking it exists or not doesn't matter.
The fact it it a belief system (like religion) and not a fact of life, does matter.

A fundamental misunderstanding of human nature and dynamics.
Is this due to an individuals personal perspective,and experiences? ..Most probably.
The facts still don't change.

I grew up on farm, and when I was very young, one of our dogs bit me. ( I was probably the very good reason it bit me it all fairness, knowing me. I don't remember).
I could have grown up believing all dogs bite, from that one experience.
The fact was, it was one dog that bit me one time.
I knew this, and it never altered my love of dogs.
Logic decided my future actions regarding dogs - not a belief in all dogs biting...

Allowing your belief system to take a controlling position over logic is flawed. Altruism as a logic, is flawed. Communism as a system that is built on a belief in altruism.

I see no historical evidence to prove this theory wrong - from the hunter gathers joining together to make it more profitable for themselves, to women working in villages, together.
It is all about efficiency of the individual to maximize their own rewards.

If entire leftist ideologies are built on these misconceptions of the human being, it's no wonder they don't work.
And it's no wonder why political and economic discussions just go around and round.

A belief in altruism is the crux of the matter, not Marx.
That's the question that needs to be addressed.

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The answers are easy..... asking the right questions is hard part...

We all see the same string, stop trying push the bloody thing!

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Little tip - Center your images / Titles :D

I like them left-aligned.

no problem, was just letting you know :)

Curated for #informationwar (by @openparadigm)
Relevance: Asks The Question "Is Belief In Altruism As Building Block Of Society Make Any Sense Whatsoever" And Answers With A Resounding "Nope"
Our Purpose

Lol @openparadigm, your 'relevance tags'are always very long and sometimes funny

I try to play with words ;] -@openparadigm

Good stuff, bro! Let me just say this one thing:

"The crux of leftist thinking has nothing to do with thinking."

Have a great one!

One of the defining parameters that sets the left apart from the right is how they see things from a 'social' perspective.

Social authority, social altruism, social 'good', how much of life should be within or relating to a social societal construct.

There is almost a constant, non-genuine acknowledgement of individual sovereignty.

Good stuff.

Definitely. The basic perspective needs to change before any political ideology comes into it.
Without that change, there is no change.

It actually makes the discussion much easier - discuss altruism before politics..

thank you!

I'm not persuaded by your string, or your argument.
And I don't agree with your interpretation of history.

I do agree with the consideration that you posit as the crux: "Is altruism real."

You also make a good point with "the individual is the lowest common denominator". We see in others what lies at the core of our self.
If you're sure that "it is all about efficiency of the individual to maximize their own rewards", that is the reflection of your moral essence.

Many altruistic people exist, and they do marvelously in groups of the like-minded.

Until their content, thriving group is infiltrated by capitalists.

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(image pixabay)

If you're sure that "it is all about efficiency of the individual to maximize their own rewards", that is the reflection of your moral essence.

Maximizing their own rewards can be emotional, not just material.
To frame it as something negative is reflective of your own moral essence.
...see how this works?

Many altruistic people exist, and they do marvelously in groups of the like-minded.

So this confirms my argument precisely - IF altruism was so widespread, you couldn't describe it as something exceptional.
The fact it is exceptional, proves my point.
Self interest is the norm, altruism is exception.

Looking at society, we have to look the majority of group behaviors, not the exceptions.

Until their content, thriving group is infiltrated by capitalists.

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Maximizing their own rewards can be emotional, not just material.
To frame it as something negative is reflective of your own moral essence.

There is considerable emotion connected with capitalistic gain. Why else would they amass more than they could spend in several lifetimes, and still crave more.
The capitalist harvests profit from the work of others. That is not their own reward, at least not for producing anything constructive, because the capitalist never does. The workers do.
That is by definition a negative for everyone except the minuscule profit taking minority at the top.

IF altruism was so widespread, you couldn't describe it as something exceptional.

Altruism is exceptional in a capitalist society, which we are. However, (please forgive the metaphor) in a cesspool everything smells like shit. That doesn't mean the whole world does, or even that it's the preferable condition.

...see how this works?

BTW, I'm not a Marxist; I just see capitalism for what it is.

BTW, I'm not a Marxist; I just see capitalism for what it is.

It's strange in capitalistic societies how nutrition goes up, education goes up, life expectancy goes up, income goes up...

no other economic system has this correlation...

ergo, what's the best system to adopt?
Because some get richer than others doesn't change the fact that everyone's lives improve.
(crony capitalism, is not capitalism)

Central banks prevent capitalism (and is just the back door to communism , ...through the crony capitalist system that we are in right now.)

so you do not consider the US, or the West for that matter, to be truly capitalist.

What then is your concept of capitalism, and where does it exist, other than in theory?

so you do not consider the US, or the West for that matter, to be truly capitalist.

Before central banking, capitalism wasn't theory - it was the method of economics.

Capitalism is...

....can I borrow 'X', and I'll give it you back at a later date. I'll give you X plus an agreed bit extra. as a thank you.

It's really simple and is not theory.... you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours is capitalism.

And socialism is, I need a dozen eggs. In return, I've got a gallon of milk to give you.
No money involved. Therefore no debt, no usury.,

RE Because some get richer than others doesn't change the fact that everyone's lives improve

That's not accurate. Presently the average US citizen is not doing well, especially if you compare it to the 60s.
Meanwhile the top fraction of 1% have almost all of the wealth; the most extreme gap in history.

RE your economics brush up, here's something that may interest you. A video, and an essay (neither by me). I had some other stuff but I'm not finding it right now. If these two pieces do interest you and you'd like more, let me know and I'll have another look.

Who really owns the USA

I know my history, from 1776 to the Jekyll island, and fed res.,thanks.

You are talking about crony capitalism.

That's not accurate. Presently the average US citizen is not doing well, especially if you compare it to the 60s.
Meanwhile the top fraction of 1% have almost all of the wealth; the most extreme gap in history.

The debt based banking system (lets say 1913 for arguments sake) will always end up where we are now. 1% -99%.
It's a mathematical certainty.

And socialism is, I need a dozen eggs. In return, I've got a gallon of milk to give you.

That is not socialism. What about the hungry neighbor?- that's socialism- when they split everything 3 ways...irrelevant of input of production.

socialism necessities central administration to redistribute resources ...so everyone is 'equal'.
😂
Tax is theft.

No money involved. Therefore no debt, no usury.,

You don't need money for debt.
Usury (not compound interest), is a healthy market mechanism to work out the value of money and goods.

I need a dozen eggs. In return, I've got a gallon of milk to give you.
No money involved. Therefore no debt, no usury

That's actually capitalism. You give something that is your's for something that is his. He gives something that is from him for something that is yours.

There has to be no money involved or usury or so.

Giving someone something, without asking something in return.....is capitalism too.
You give something that is from you to someone.

Socialism is taking something that is not yours from someone, to "give" it to someone else.

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