Yeah a real shame Zoltan, and no matter how hard you try, you cannot convince how very wrong some of their arguments are! We had a situation where one lobby group demanded a certain action that would result in the deaths of 1-2 New Zealanders every year. We got the Cabinet Minister responsible for that decision to sign off, to protect the public servants from prosecution by the courts. What happens behind the public face of governance, that I don't talk much to people about!