Ivan on Tech debates Peter Schiff - Bitcoin vs Gold, US Dollar Crash

in #bitcoin2 years ago (edited)

I'm excited to tell you guys that we've hadthe one and only Peter Schiff here on the show! Peter has been critical about the traditional financial system for many years, he foresaw the financial crash of 2008. HE HATES BITCOIN though. Peter is all about gold and doesn't see the value in Bitcoin. We've talked about his past, financial system, gold, bitcoin, dollar crash etc. Was interesting, deep, knowledgable, and extremely fun! JOIN US!

PETER'S WEBSITE http://www.schiffgold.com/

Thanks for watching guys 💝
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Ivan on Tech by Ivan Liljeqvist

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Thanks for your great work Ivan. You helped me a lot if it comes to learning about crypto from the technical side. I also like the new perspectives, interviews like that bring in.

Peter Schiff is another interesting guest, bringing in arguments and thoughts, I haven't considered before. To my surprise, he also had some reasonable knowledge about the crypto space but at the same time, he seems to lack the view of a bigger picture. The fact, that he seemed to be more interested to stand in for gold, than giving both sides a fair share of attention and interest, did not serve his credibility. Although I have to agree on some points, some arguments are almost hilarious, and how he insisted on pushing his agenda of getting back to the gold standard almost gave it a nostalgic touch.

One of the worst arguments/examples was the comparison of Bitcoin to a modem and the fact that modems were rendered obsolete due to technical progress. Since Bitcoin is a protocol, it should not only be compared to a protocol but also has the property of a protocol to sustain/grow with technical progress over decades, like TCP / IP did.

Although I spoke critical of Peter Schiff, he deserves respect and appreciation for sharing his point of view and taking time for this interview. Also and again, a huge thanks to @ivanli for bringing up not only interesting content in the technical domain but also controversial debates/interviews like this.

Good comment. It's good to engage with controversial viewpoints to arrive at what is more accurately The Truth.

Thanks Ivan, I have to say I am very impressed! You did a great job! 😆 😉 👍

cool brader

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Great interview, @ivanli!
As much as I like Peter Schiff's economic insights, I think he still hasn't understood crypto or Bitcoin.
He seems to think that bitcoin is just about its codebase, which can be improved upon by other projects. But Bitcoin is also the adopter community, developer community (which has some of the brightest minds in the world), merchant adoption, exchanges, etc., etc...

Bitcoin is now a living entity that will continue to evolve and refuse to die!

True, I think the biggest obstacle for many is that crypto does not represent something tangible unlike metal. Not sure that it's rational to prioritize tangible assets over intangible - but still this bias persists.

The history of money begins with governments creating it out of thin air... gold backed money comes much later as does privately issued money. This guy needs to read a book...

The history of money begins with people bartering. I think someone else needs to read a book...

No it doesn't... where did you read that? Money starts with fiat money about 5,000 years ago in the middle east ... it was credit that kept track of debts between citizens in. There's no evidence of bartering in our history (despite what economist speculate in their textbooks)... there were complex systems of gifting goods between friends and family but no bartering (which is distasteful in most cultures). We went from fiat credit to coins around 250 BC when formal armies started to be formed.

Read a better book :p

Yes and history has proven that every time there is a crisis that barter system makes you reconsider what the value of some goods are.. for instance a roll of toiletpaper and tampons are worth much more when SHTF. Everything seems common and taken for granted until the music stops. Haven't drank the kool aid but nothing wrong with some extra water, rice, beans, ... in your personal stock.

Common now.. educate yourself a bit more on this matter. Up for grabs if internet visits you much 😊

'It was more than 5,000 years ago that primitive commodity money was used in Mesopotamia, and it's been over 3,000 years since metal coins began circulating. For more than 99.2% of human civilization, money actually meant something… right up until 1971 when Richard Nixon ended any remaining link between the dollar and gold.' *business insider

Mesopotamia used credit that was fiat in nature... not commodity money. They recorded debts on tally sticks (which could be traded much like bonds currently are). The debt wasn't backed by a commodity. Debt began to be backed by a commodity when coinage began circulating. Due to people confusing the coin which was meant to reflect a magnitude of debt with the wealth it represented. Both the original form of credit and the coinage that followed was fiat in nature. Free market money comes much later

Oh Peter, always see the dips coming but never know what to do to make a profit off of it... then miss the 7 years of expansion every time :s

In this day and age it's easy to say there's a crash commin'. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see this fiat money system is an end game. But still, markets can be irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

I just get confused when they say a crash is coming after a crash just came... after the crash comes the recovery but Peter always forgets about the 7 years of prosperity.

Ivan great job. Keep up the great work. People will continue to criticize cryptos, bitcoin. Buy you were right that’s how people criticized internet and email also in the beginning.

wow Peter Schiff is a level. Hope to see you in Anarchapulco 2019! Or maybe soon on Anarchast with @jeff.berwick from @dollarvigilante

Are the dates for Anarchapulco 2019 out, yet? I can't find them anywhere.

Great conversation @ivanli

I appreciate your recent shows between Schiff and Heart. A lot of good diverse viewpoints! I like that you don't limit your guests to Bitcoin Maximalist and Crypto Perma Bulls!

I think we as a community should focus on why something that is intangible can have more value than something tangible. It may be easier for younger people who are more fluent in digital spaces. However it's clear that older folks around Schiff's generation (baby boomers in USA) still have deep skepticism of intangible assets.

Agreed. My rebuttal to the objection that bitcoin is intangible and unbacked is this: The bitcoin network is tangible because it is comprised of scarce resources like hardware, energy and human capital. This is what we need to convince people of. No, you cannot eat a bitcoin, and it won't keep you warm in the winter, but what you're buying is the freedom to transact in a trustless manner. The biggest hurdle for the mainstream is the education gap and the paradigm shift required to take the leap of faith by taking personal responsibility. We're so used to having our hands held by the financial system. However I see a place for both fiat and crypto to coexist.

True good points @steadytoken. The freedom to transact in a trustless environment should have a dynamic pricing mechanism.

Ivan, Great podcast with Peter, thanks for posting on Steemit

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More debate = more exposure= more fun = more active market = more profit :)

Great interview. Nice job, man. Peter is an interesting guy. I think his call in 2008 was impressive. Before I became a cryptocurrency investor, I listened to his podcasts. I still respect him, but I don't know why he is so absolutely sure Bitcoin will not survive. I'm in it for the long run because I believe in the good it will do for society and because I think it is a good investment, but it does unnerve me when intelligent investors say it will go to zero. I do think it is a good idea for long term investors to take back some profit and leave the rest in. I have taken back some of my initial investment to protect myself. However, the rest I'm leaving in for the long run. I plan to use it someday. It is true, I can't use Bitcoin now (transaction fees and speed). I know that will be fixed though.

At the same time, Peter often says maybe some other cryptocurrency will take over Bitcoin. As far as I am concerned, fine. That is capitalism. I love Bitcoin and would love to see it become an everyday currency (not just a store of value), but if Litecoin or Dash win the game, that means cryptocurrencies will be a success. It almost seems like he is debating against his point. I mean, he says Bitcoin will fail and I assume he means cryptocurrencies will fail, but then he admits another coin might surpass Bitcoin... in other words, he is saying cryptocurrencies will be a success.

Also, Ivan, I like how you pointed out that cryptocurrencies are just currencies. There are many uses of blockchain technology.

Mike Maloney would be interesting if you can get him, his views are similar to Peter's but he's much more open to cryptos.

this is amazing man .. wow really lik our videos

Ivan you're absolutely killing it with the crypto content mate, quickly becoming one of my favourite cryptocurrency content providers.

Keep up the good work! :)

awesome to hear, thank you!

how we can join ....

the live is over, it's a recorded video now only

Peter Schiff is a broken record of a grand misunderstanding of macroeconomics.

Hello Ivan,
You are doing very good job in educating people with different aspects of Crypto by interviewing people having different opinions and diverse perspectives. I think it is very important to listen and interact with opposing views and broaden the understanding of these new technology. I am a believer in Bitcoin, but I like hearing the opposing arguments.

Keep up the good work and I expect very great future for you .

I'm not a lawyer, but I think if somebody got sentenced to 10 years for holding a fraction of a Bitcoin, this would not be considered "verhältnismäßig" by the German Bundesverfassungsgericht (the punishment would not fit the crime).

Also, there is not one global government (unless you watch too much Alex Jones) and if many countries banned crypto it could become an competitive advantage for some countries not to ban it.

Also, if I buy Bitcoin, I am ethically on the right side because BTC miners still have intact lungs (unless they smoke pan everyday...)

(Just some thoughts, I did not get to see the entire debate.)

There seems to be a clear division between people who love gold and people who are embracing cryptocurrencies. I see tremendous value in both. The future generations, I believe, will lead the charge on crypto and other new technologies ... just think of the world they grow up in versus how we grew up. I mean as a teenager I thought a freakin' pager was crazy awesome technology ... LOL. Tech is moving very fast and will continue to get faster. I just hope that the next generations keep an open mind to gold and silver. This worry is what keeps me up at night ... plus my neighbor's damn dog :):):) Cheers !!!

The problem with gold is it's not being used as a currency. Crypto is but on a small scale replacing in the dollar is what will end a lot of economic slavery.

Excellent interview! Both sides were well debated. Personally I'm going to invest in both crypto and gold because if one thing is for sure the world fiat system is going to fail... and soon!

This is an excellent debate. One of my favourite Crypto Zealots and one of my favourite Gold Bulls going head to head.

Really intelligent discussion and I really appreciate that both individuals kept is respectful and amicable. Well done Ivan and Peter. Resteemed.

a good post, I really like what you share. good luck brother. Steady...!!!

He interrupted you every time you where trying to make a point. To me he was just trying to push his agenda for the adoption of gold as a standard. You could have used a lot of his arguments against his position for instance:

  • Gold has intrinsic value because it has utility. For someone who claims to follow austrian economics this argument falls on it's face (for the record I think that austrian economics gets some things wrong but that is a argument for another day).

  • The government can ban cryptos...the government can and has confiscated gold in the past.

I guess one of the biggest advantages gold and Bitcoin have is that they are limited and therefor a big contrast to the never ending cycle of bubbles fiat currencies are making over and over again. Right now imo the new bubble will push precious metals to the moon. Some crypto's will share that same fate. The fiat money system is an end game that's for sure. The distributed ledger system is here 2 stay and will/must take over. Too bad some gold bugs and btc maximalists don't fit in the same Elevator. Maybe once they will exit peaceful at the same floor.

Ivan, you should also debate Jordan Belfort “The Wolf of Wall Street”. I wrote somewhat of a rebuttal to his most recent video from his Facebook page. Honestly, I didn’t have the patience to go point by point through his fallacy lade, caffeine fueled rant.

You can check it it here. https://steemit.com/wolfofwallstreet/@ctom/jordan-belfort-the-wolf-of-wall-street-rebuttal

If you like it, an upvote would be much appreciated.

Someone needs to tell Peter Shill that gold can be confiscated.

Really appreciated your work and knowledge that you are sharing with all of us. I too am a C# programmer and too started working on projects concerning blockchain technology. My first post if you guys like and follow than it would be highly appreciated:
https://steemit.com/blockchain/@encorepvtltd/blockchain-technology-concerning-the-future

Fantastic discussion!

Peter Schiff made a lot of extremely solid arguments. But I like the way Ivan handled himself - very CCC (Cool Calm & Composed). Bravo Ivan, as this makes for an intelligent debate, rather than a heated "my-side-only-is-right" debate which is not conducive to critical thinking and keeping an open mind.

In other words, the debate was much more constructive and civil than the one between Peter & Max Keiser!

bitcoins-versus-gold-peter-schiff-max-keiser-debate.jpg

But at the end of the day, it is all about the PERCEIVED VALUE of the currency.

Gold_Coin-Maple.jpg

Gold since 2011 has been stagnant and perceived as "not that great" in value due to its price suppression by the banksters.

Bitcoin_Coin.jpg

Bitcoin has recently (if you take away the recent tumble) in the last year has gained a high perception of value more in large part due to the masses seeing it as a speculative - get rich quick - investment rather than as a currency asset in and of itself.

It will be interesting to see the behavior of Bitcoin (and other Cryptos) during the next big market crash/meltdown. We have a good idea what gold will do due to historical trends. But how Bitcoin will fare in such a scenario has yet to be seen.

QUICK POLL: If you had to choose between the 1 oz Canadian Gold Maple above or 1 Bitcoin the day before the next huge market crash, which would you rather have?

We need gold for our computer parts so we can keep mining bitcoin! LOL

Why dont we just make a crypto that is 1:1 backed by gold?! Have all the pluses of gold throught the ages without the minuses of it being heavy and hard to transfer by having a digital equivalent. Paper money used to be an IOU for gold. We need blockchain based currency that is with you in your pocket and able to send to anyone in the world by a click.

The video is a little bit bitcoin vs gold and i just dont see why we cant take the best of both and make the next leap in the evolution of money!