Peter Schiff vs Erik Voorhees
Great Bitcoin debate between these two:
Erik is so calm and classy. And Schiff is classy in his own right but such a loud mouth 😆
Peter is effective at doing his usual charade, where he conflates value with being a physical object and basically just asserts that Bitcoin is a bubble, and ducks and weaves around the foundation of the points. Erik is brilliant and does a great job refuting him.
Little comment about something Peter said in his closing (beginning around 1hr22min):
The quote is roughly: just because I didn't buy Bitcoin at $3, or $50, or $1000 doesn't mean I'm going to succumb to the greed and buy it now
First of all, it's kind of just telling on himself, and a projection, to imagine that greed and the opportunity to make a lot of money would be the only reason to buy Bitcoin.
Some people are like that, sure. Some people are like that in stocks and gold or any asset class. But probably more than any other asset class, people in Bitcoin are motivated by an appreciation for the technology and what it offers to the world.
Peter and Erik both agree that the fiat system will fall at some point.
So....
If you know it's going to be something that replaces fiat, there comes a point where you have to consider holding at least some Bitcoin to be actually a hedge or a safety play. How sure do you have to be that it won't be Bitcoin to justify not having any?
(For the average Joe who doesn't believe the fiat system will fall, that's one thing. For someone who recognizes that it will, putting 0 chance on Bitcoin being the replacement is such a strong statement.)
So this idea that the only reason to own it would be to have Lambos and quick riches is just totally wrong.
If you consider that there's at least a chance, it actually is very conservative and humble to own some small amount of BTC. You're hedging your bets in terms of what the replacement will be.
What's greedy is to ignore this possibility and believe 100% that it won't happen and gold will be the replacement.
At first, hearing Peter’s comments about greed and not buying bitcoin I thought he was losing my respect. However, I also had the thought that I may be doing the same thing with a project like Ripple that I don’t like but is still likely to appreciate considerably. I suppose we all have the ability to put ourselves in a corner - that still doesn’t mean I plan on buying Ripple, lol.
Interesting. I've thought about buying Ripple so many times, lol.
It doesn't bother me to speculate on something I don't ultimately support. BUT, ultimately supporting it should generally guide your decisions to be better ones.
So that's mostly why I've stayed away, I just feel more prone to error when it's things I don't have a fundamental belief in.
So I guess I can see why Peter would avoid Bitcoin. But not why he can suggest buying it would necessarily be greedy.
Rather than "I'm not going to succumb to the greed" I'd rather he say "I still don't consider any real chance that Bitcoin is big long term or replaces fiat".
That'd be a cleaner way to describe his stance, without the suggestion that greed and quick riches would be the only reason to buy it.
Great comment, got me thinking.
But @full-measure do you think that this system is feasible? All we want to do with Bitcoins is to use them as exchange. Can this happen at this price. Even if this happens we don't want to price of Bitcoin to be 6000$ or 8000$ tomorrow if price is 7000$ today.
Lot of speculation leading to lot of volatility which is big problem to use them as exchange.
Actually I don't the people in your discussion. I should know about them I guess.
Oh, and as far as volatility goes, that's basically just a function of its infancy.
Over time, price discovery will occur. Peter would have you believe that volatility is something inherent to Bitcoin. But really it's inherent to "new thing that very few people have wrapped their minds around yet, and has potential to be huge"
I fail to see any reason why markets can't, eventually, discover what the price of Bitcoin should be.
It's kind of a chicken/egg thing, where as it gets more known and more commonly used, it'll get less volatile. So volatility naturally ceases to be a worry as it gets closer to the point of being commonly used.
yeah! i completely agree with that. But that is a long way to go according to me. You think its future and sustainable. But is it easily adaptable??. There are around 950 million illiterate people all across the world. That is almost equal to the population of a big country like India. Imagine when this people learn about such technology. My father find it difficult to understand about normal currency , I guess it will take a lifetime or him to understand about virtual money.
Haha.. that's the thing tho, people don't understand currency right now.. they just know how to use it and know it works. So, same thing, it'll keep getting more user-friendly and people just use it. Similar to using a car but not really knowing how the engine works etc
Yeah. Probably!!
Well, I don't see why price should really matter. You just transfer fractional and smaller units. So it works the same for exchange no matter the price.
It's still tiny, relative to the market cap of fiat, and still much smaller than gold. So I see no reason why $6K or $7K etc should even be thought of as a big deal or surprising at all.
Whatever is used as the common medium of exchange will have an enormous market cap.
Good question. Cheers @kpreddy
This is what my problem is. If it has to replace the entire existing fiat system then price of Bitcoin has to be much much higher and this then again creates a problem to use it as exchange but that fraction again increases. Anyways these are my thoughts and queries and I don't know much about cryptocurriences 😁😁
I don't really see why that's a problem 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️ you just keep sliding the decimal place lol
Appreciate your thoughts!!
Keep learning, keep asking questions!!
Yeah! I will keep Steeming.thank you!
I should do reasonable research before asking questions it seems 😂😂
No it's good questions.. Peter Schiff would probably say you're right! lol. So even with research maybe you'd decide the same things.
But ya, research it and think on some of the ideas and see what you decide.
Ya! Thank you....I will do that definitely.
Most people will never own Bitcoin, the will own Satoshis, after the next bull run, Bitcoin at below $20,000 will seem like a bargain... But how many people have $20,000 to buy a whole Bitcoin?
Recent study in the UK said 25% of families have less than £100 in the bank!
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/20/one-in-four-uk-families-have-less-than-95-in-savings-report-finds
Bitcoin is very powerful…its have the power to change our life
Yup. I think you've commented that one to me before.
That is amazing!!............
Ty. That's what I was going for.
flagging for spam (gif spam is loud and annoying)
That's a tacky flag, and the guy is new. Why not just ask him
nicely not to post .gif(t)s on your posts? Then he can decide 4
himself if he wants to follow you or not, seeing as how you'd
like to dictate his ability to comment how he sees fit. Steem
is what you make of it. Lets make it better than a place where
people fear to speak their minds to those who have more SP.
I flagged on 1% (or something like that, I was on my phone) for the purpose of lowering its visibility on my post.
IMO it's tacky and weird to come in concerned about something so trivial as that. Someone spammed my blog, so I clicked flag.. not much to see here.
"speak their minds" has nothing to do with spamming a gif because they want to spray comments to get an upvote. People disagree with me lots on here and I always welcome it and even upvote it.
It's nice to assume the best and pretend he's a genuine user, but spam has its downside. I'll use my flag against spam as I wish.
It's a new account but likely not a new user.
If you're really concerned about this, keep your eye on his account and if after a while he proves to be a genuine user, let me know and I'll remove the flag.
::rolls eyes::
Fair enough, I can see why you may have thought it was spam. His intro was a little short, but the second post seems an earnest attempt to create content. To be honest, I've been listening to this debate between Schiff and Voorhees for the last hour or so and that .gif that he posted pretty much sums up exactly how I feel.
I don't know who is right or wrong in this debate. Whether or not to anticipate excitement or dread with respect to the future success or failure of bitcoin. I'll tell you this much the enemy of my enemy is my friend and the banks are the enemy. Big question is long term viability and who is right, time will tell I suppose.
UPDATE: 1535 CST
Yeah, initially you flagged at 1%. Since making the above comment you reflagged at 11%.
So? lol.
I was responding to your criticism and saying that what you were concerned about was a 1% flag.
After that, ya, like I said my motivation for flagging was to clean the litter and not make it visible in my post's comments. So when I saw that it was visible I changed the flag.
Not sure what you liked or wanted to reward about a pointless spam post, but that's the chain of events.
Well, if the comment wasn't spam (and I think that it was not), then you effectively soft-censored what he had to say on platforms like Steemit who dither and hide posts that drop below 0.00.
It seems to me like an uncool way to treat a newcomer to the blockchain. It's your ship though, sail it how and where you please. Most people are leaving the major platforms because of the censorship tactics.
Collectively it would be wise for us Steemians to use the flagging tool in such a way where we don't become in any way similar to them.
Before you had said fair enough. So your only gripe is the 11% aspect?
I don't really get it. It's obviously spam to me. Maybe I'm wrong, you're entitled to your impression of his post. But it seemed like spam so I click d flag.
::shrugs::
I'm entitled to my impression of it too. If you care about the platform, I'd suggest respect that someone who has used it for a longtime and is invested in the platform can throw a flag at what seems like spam on their posts.