Why I won't be using bidbots again
A month ago I ran a little experiment – a very unscientific one, as I was the only participant in this research project.
I decided to try using bidbots. My thinking was this: as a plankton, writing what I consider quality content, bidbots might help me promote my posts, which might then be seen by more Steemians and thereby attract more upvotes.
I decided not to use bidbots to boost posts that were getting a lot of views but not many upvotes, as these posts were probably not going to be popular anyway. (The "eyes" feature seems to have disappeared from Steemit posts now, so I can't actually tell how many people have viewed my posts.)
I had already done a bit of research into a few accounts that regularly use bidbots. Some Steemians regularly spend a lot on them, but I didn't find any accounts that regularly make a lot of SBD profits this way.
The accounts I looked at appeared at first glance to be earning hundreds of dollars from their daily posts, but my laborious calculations of how much they had spent on bidbots compared to their actual payout indicated that despite spending 50SBD or more on bidbots, they were making profits of about 8 or 9 SBD per post at most (and often making losses).
I compared that with some other popular accounts that were regularly making from 30 to 150SBD simply by producing quality content and sticking at it.
What these bidbot using accounts were getting in addition to their 8 or 9 SBD (or sometimes they were making a loss) was:
- Increased SP
- More followers and comments.
But was it even worth the effort?
My own experimental use of bidbots was very unimpressive, and I've not used them since. Unlike the accounts I studied, I only spent a few SBD per post on bidbots – never more than $10.
My strategy was to get my posts trending in niche categories like #climbing and #uk. But I found that even if my post reached the number one spot in these categories, that in itself wouldn't bring me many more views, or upvotes. Maybe those categories were just too niche.
I also started to notice that some of my posts would be trending in those niche categories before I'd spent a single cent on bidbots!
Ultimately my expenditure on bidbots over eight posts netted me an overall loss of 8.47SBD, and every single bidbotted post made a loss. This was a great surprise to me, as several times after I spent on bidbots my post seemed to "take off", but then over the next few days it would flag.
During that time period, I wrote two unbotted posts – and they earned me a total profit of 21.71 SBD; 11.66 SP, mainly because one of them was picked up by Curie.
Thanks again Curie!
Patience
This very unscientific experiment taught me that Steemit is a game – a waiting game. You need patience, to stick at it, learning all the time. I have a strong feeling that Steem and Steem Dollars will rise in value over the next few years, so even if we feel we're not making much from our work, I think if we "hodl" we will reap the benefits over time.
I haven't posted much since running that experiment – but that's not because I've got fed up or decided to throw in the towel! I've just been absolutely run off my feet doing DIY to get a flat I rent out into shape for letting it again after the previous tenant left. I've been too exhausted to think, never mind write!
New bot transparency drive
But since I finished doing the DIY and started blogging and vlogging again, I've noticed a cluster of great new initiatives from @byColeman and others:
• @Transparencybot adds a comment to bidbotted posts, gently and non-judgementally alerting readers to the fact.
• @botreporter posts daily summaries of the largest net transfers to bidbots.
• The #nobidbot tag was introduced by @whatamidoing in this post(https://steemit.com/nobidbot/@whatamidoing/why-don-t-we-all-protest-the-trending-and-hot-page-nobidbot), and it's being supported by @transparencybot with random upvotes.
I don't have a massive ethical antipathy towards bidbots, because I see them as tools. We are adults. It's up to us whether we choose to spend money on bots or not, and it's pretty easy to find out if someone has been using bots.
Some very good creators who bring value to the community choose to promote their posts with bidbots.
But in my case, bidbots profited from my work, while I made a loss. Hmm…
I don't think I'll be using them again!
Well, their profitability largely depends on the price of STEEM, when it's low enough, the might be profitable. But still risky, because there are many idiots who overbid and make everyone lose (the idiot himself in the first place) except the bot itself.
As a promotion tool bots are highly effective, however it closes some doors such as @curie upvotes and whatnot.
After I invested, I set aside a sum for the promotion expenses. I used bots to gain the initial following, as without it you won't get anywhere in the near future. Their usage was a financial loss for sure. But you pay for advertisement and not the other way around, right? I don't use them anymore, concentrating on the organic auditory and content. Currently I haven't came up with a better strategy to build an account from scratch.
Maybe my strategy wasn't sound enough - I was targeting niche categories. If you spend enough on bidbots to trend in popular categories it might give you the promotion you need to get a good following. You have to run with it, as you have done.
I've studied a couple of accounts that spent a lot on bidbots, and managed to trend in very popular categories, building big followings - but they spent so much that they made big financial losses and just seemed to give up. I suppose like many things on Steemit, persistence is key.
Really? Gave up? Maybe they didn't have any real value content in the first place, just trying to make a money-printing machine. Good riddance say I.
Sadly, only a minority of the good-content posts get good upvotes. Some get lucky, but others simply don't, and even if they promote them using bid bots, they won't get curation or anything of value other than nice comments and resteems.
True and true, alas. Meanwhile, trending is full of shit.
The accounts I'm referring to did produce value content - initially - but I think they must have run out of money to spend on bidbots.
That makes more sense as bots are effectively make liquid money non-liquid. Sometimes even making losses for the poor sods who utilize em.
LOL, then they used the bots very wrong. Yeah, you can lose a LOT in bid bots. I've seen people who are eternally losing and emptying their own bank accounts in cryptocurrency to bid on bots and pay for promotion.
It's sad, but there is a big lack of education in how to use them properly. People don't tell you things like "only bid on a bot if it's 5 minutes till it votes and only 55% or less of the total vote has been bought".
It's very demoralising at first when you're losing, but if you make a proper effort to research a way to profit from them, you'll see that they can bring you a lot of gains.
On the other hand, they are damaging the system by filling up the trending page with paid-for garbage. I think that it is up to the developers of the Steem blockchain to develop a promotion system that doesn't clutter the trending page with things nobody cares about (except the poster who puts thousands of dollars of promotion into it) and instead promotes quality.
Heck, I prefer the Steem Engine's curations than checking the front page. It's a much better experience overall.
When I experimented with using bidbots, I always used Steembottracker, and I only ever placed a bid within the last 5 mins. Occasionally I placed my bid too late, because it took a while for the system to recognise the bid, and then I had to go to the end of the next list!
Rather than developing a new promotion system, I think it would be easier for the Steem developers to rank the trending page according to upvotes earned, instead of money earned.
Thank for the post. While I understand the basic idea of bots, bitbots etc., it is the sheer number of them that I find confusing and frustrating. I don't use them, but many do. Thats where all the crap posts with dozens of upvotes and hundreds of $$$ come from. Your point about creating good content and being patient is taken. That is what I plan to do from now on. I am relatively new to Steemit, and still trying to find good support communities. Cheers!
Welcome to Steemit @mmo-mmo! I wouldn't totally rule out bot use, but it's definitely a good idea to try other methods, especially when you're new to the platform (IMO). There are so many different ways to make an impact on Steemit! I definitely recommend applying to join The Steem Engine - see @thesteemengine.
I think all people—bot owners and bot users—should take a hard look, much like you did, at what they're actually accomplishing. Are they achieving some kind of measurable metric. Are the bots really helping as far as advertising or even curation. Or are the bots just basically getting more powerful themselves?
We need more and more information, pros and cons, and we really should get some of the answers from the bot owners and the bot users, instead of it always being a community initiative.
You can find out all these details from looking up the post author's username on steemd.com and steemdb.com - but it's time-consuming! The community services make it much easier to track, although @botreporter doesn't take into account the 25% curation rewards in its list, so in a way the profits for users look greater than they actually are. It's definitely the bot owners who profit the most.
Are bid bots the first incarnation of SkyNet? They do seem to be rather self-serving. Is @byColeman the John Connor of our time?
Always a chance. From bid bot to Terminator in five easy steps! However, byColeman et al are doing some pretty good work here of late. The more we know the better.
My guess, though, is that the bid bots actually turn into the replicating metal bugs that popped up during the original Stargate TV series, SG-1. Not sure how the bid bots end up in space far far away, but basically using up all the resources around them and then moving onto other worlds throughout the galaxy is more of how I see the bid bots. :)
Like Unicron - devouring all before them
img upload
I have come to similar conclusions myself.
Months and months ago bid bots could be used profitably but as with any easy way to make money it has become more and more competitive until the point where it isn't really worth it.
When I decided to stop using them was when I realized all the time spent trying to find a profitable bot could just be spent writing posts and commenting which always nets me some sort of return.
Exactly! It just seems like wasted energy to me, and there are so many other ways to make a mark on Steemit :)
Nice job stepping back and analyzing what is happening. The bidbot garbage, I feel, is goin to ruin things here. @steemflow found 91 bidbot services and said there is probably more. That is nuts!! I wonder how the bot owners are making out on this whole thing?? Pretty dang good, would be a safe bet.
#nobidbot
Only 91?? I know one person who runs around 10, another one who runs around 15, and I've been following the tracks of a few bid-bot networks. There are new bid bots all the time.
People see that they are very profitable to run and start these services. Then they campaign for investors and get them easily, and the roulette runs and runs and bid bots increase in number.
91 was what @steemflow found. I am sure there are probably hundreds of these reward-pool sucking leaches out there.
I do get a bunch of .001sbd donations from them though
I initially thought bidbots were a good idea, a kind of pay-for-promotion service. But now I think they're just a nice little earner for the bidbot owners.
If someone wants visibility, use a resteem bot. Then upvotes will still be up to the users. Yet, who follows a resteem bot?? Not me, it just clogs up my feed, and I miss posts by people I enjoy reading. Just another issue with this bot business, because that is all it is...a business.
Exactly! I can't imagine who would actually pay attention to resteems from a resteem bot, unless that bot was able to filter the content to your taste.
destroy all bots
Well personally I think people should be free to use bots if they want to – but I'll be happy to help destroy their power :)
Well, that's extreme T_T I like @ginabot
Yeah using bidbots certainly isn't some magical way to turn a profit, not even if your content is good ;-) You just need to be very active in many different communities on Discord. Or join curation groups.
Definitely, and that brings its own reward - you have exchanges with interesting people. Much better than having exchanges with bots.
I prefer having both experiences at the same time. Bidding on bots only takes a tiny amount of time. Then, I can go and interact with everyone while my posts are getting a boost in SP and views.
Not so much in views, though, but I've noticed that I can get around 4 organic comments even without promotion only by using a bot.
But I don't think that using these things should stifle you from interacting with others. I even think that it can give you the freedom to interact with others and have more free time by doing less effort to promote your posts and doing more community-building efforts.
I'm with you - it seems there's an art to bidbotting but I don't have that magic touch, lol! I ultimately came here to build a following and join a community anyway, which I find much more fulfilling. And that means that I'm getting a more accurate idea of what my blog is worth - because actual people are upvoting and it's not some artificial bloating on my part.
Bidbotting just saps your energy. And you end up being focused on the financial side, whereas there's so much to learn from exchanging ideas with people from all over the world.
I agree with you. BidBots are unstable services. They look like casino. You can win with it, but you can lose with it. I think, the second variant is more often.
#nobidbot ☺☺☺☺
Bidbotting is like being in a casino! It gives you that thrill of excitement while you're placing your bid on Steembottracker and then wondering what size of upvote you'll get. You think you've made a good profit - but later you find out that it's a loss. Some bots have a built-in algorithm that prevents the user from making a profit, yet the bot profits. I found this to be the case with Promobot.
Postpromoter gave me a big profit yesterday. I placed a 4 SBD bid and I got a $11.6 upvote. Check it out in my last post. That's a 90% ROI. If you learn to read Steembottracker, you can avoid placing bids when they are giving low ROIs and use them when they're under-used.
My mistake - I meant Promobot. I've edited that comment accordingly. I've always used Steembottracker when using bidbots.
Me too, but I used to take losses before I learned to use it from what I would call a "master in the game". I'm still bad but I'm much better than before and haven't taken any losses ever since then.
I make a LOT of profit from bid bots. I understand that they're negative for the Steem ecosystem, but they're really profitable right now and are the only alternative to the "promote" button.
My profit doesn't come in the form of SBD but in SP. If I pay 20 SBD, I get a $38-42 vote. I may not get back 3 SBD, but I'll be getting 10 SP. Do this 25-35 times in a month for a couple months and you get what I have, 250 SP only from bid bots. I get around 1.5 SBD a day from organic upvotes and around 2 SBD from comments, so I recover what I invest and I get much more in profits.
I also get views, power up, a better image and more opportunities. I don't think they're all that bad after having used them from a month into my Steemit experience.
I didn't argue that the bidbots were bad - just that I won't be using them again. They won't be part of my personal promotional strategy. That's why I said in my post that:
I also said in my post that there were other potential gains from bidbots, that it wasn't all about SBD:
Yep, I saw, I'm just saying that you also said that bid bots have a tendency to bring you losses. I'm saying that it's not necessarily so, since when you lose SBD, you earn even more in SP, and that is considered powering up (it's like a better way of powering up), and in fact I don't promote my posts when, by the time I publish, the bots are giving out awful rewards.
And the part about the ethics is mine. I do think that they are bad for the ecosystem, but I also think that they are the only alternative to the promote button right now with the current design.
I'm looking forward to the hardforks coming in during the last months of the year.
Well it certainly seems to be working well for you - earning 250 SP in a couple of months is very impressive! Although that might also be because of your engagement and frequent posting.
3 months (joined in January)! But still, yes, my consistency and my methods are 100% the cause of my success :) It was a strategy that worked and I hope that I can keep working the plan to keep growing steadily.
Well done! It's not easy to do, especially if you're as disorganised as I am.