BidBots - THEY DO NOT DRAIN THE STEEM REWARDPOOL!

in bidbots •  22 days ago

When you hear people lying about BidBots, send them to this article about the history of STEEM voting, curation and changes.

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Once upon a time, people would be voting for themselves and their "friends" and only that. Yes, it was a nasty time for everyone on STEEM, I remember as a young minnow/small dolphin that my voting power was next to nothing, it just turned the button blue and no visible money was added to the rewards.

Then someone came up with a scheme to sell up or downvotes on the black market, a really easy way to make sure to become a witness, trend all your posts, make you a star - for money of course.

And the voting-power, omg, I remember looking at whale accounts with 20% votingpower, now that is how you know the rewardpool is being raped.

The updates known as HF19 and HF20 changed the game in consensus with the majority of stakeholders, creating a stake based and only stake based economy, the GOLD STANDARD

Now there were no real benefits to "circle-jerk" anymore, so self-voting became the calculated way to milk your own cow, but there is something to be said about the wisdom of "do to others what you want others to do to you". I do not want to post 10 posts per day and upvote myself and only myself, lol, that would just create flags against me from other users with more steempower then me and instead of gaining more stake, I would be losing most of it and at the same time lose other people money which would lead to conflicts and capitulation back to the drawing board.

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BidBots trigger when their vote power is 100% and stop voting when it is around 98%

Ten times per day they do this task, a 100% upvote divided on the participants in the open auctions. This is extremely rational and in this way, BidBots preserve the integrity of the Rewardpool instead of more irrational voting habits as we had on STEEM before the bidbots.

BidBots Make sure YOU and the PUBLIC have easy access to SteemPower for YOUR own reasons!

The ones who rape the rewardpool are easy to spot as they have drained their own vote-power down to an almost minimum, so stupid - if you see someone with a very low voting power, tell him/her they are doing it wrong, take a break and vote 10 times per day when your battery is fully charged.

BidBots make sure they stay powered up and benefits those that use them - The BidBot Owners have open communication lines between each other if something needs to be done/changed/talked about, these are fine people who are seriously committed to their investors, the users and the rewardpool. Be sure of it!

BidBots are monitored by their owners + competitors + everybody to preserve the integrity of the Rewardpool!

Nobody wants to destroy the rewardpool, serious steemians know this, and bidbot owners and operators are for the most part the absolutely most serious people you can ever come across when it comes to integrity in the monetary sense. In other words, nobody wants to shit in the swimming pool we all swim in, and there is no point in emptying the pool when there is a fresh stream of new rewards coming in with every block.

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The Rewardpool is full - Have a swim!

In essence, right now let us say you spend $50 divided between 5 bidbots, you get $49 worth of upvotes, so your marketing cost is really just $1. The alternative would be to not have access to this steempower and instead, you would just sit there watching whales, dolphins, and minnows circle jerking like before, and we do not want that.

Another thing about trending on STEEM is that your posts trend relatively high in search engines on the topics you write or make videos/songs/photos/game about. And of course you make more followers when people actually see your post, which is something to think about with 50,000-100,000 posts/comments per day and growing.

You were BORN TO STAND OUT - so why the hell do you TRY TO FIT IN?

The fact our company stay invested with STEEM is because of all the crap content around here, which in investor terms are great because that means there is room to grow, which is awesome for us. It is the same reason we dumped Alphabet and Facebook, they have sold themselves into a synthetic political correct perfection which yields a lot of frustration of not being seen, or being seen by so few that you have almost no social impact. You know about all of this, so be happy that BidBots allow you to reach out to the MASSES for YOUR OWN REASONS!

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Every year, smarter and smarter people grow smarter on the STEEM blockchain, people use their talents, their time, their money and build up their very own STEEM BRANDS, all which will be very very valuable in the future as we keep growing on the MEAN. Around here you got to be a little crazy sometimes to shake the tree and make sure it is founded on solid ground so it won't fall over and die when it grows up and yield fruits.

I hope you learned what you need to know about BidBots, now CLIMB TO THE TOP and become a WINNER!

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To learn more about BidBots and see all of them, please go to https://steembottracker.com/ created by @yabapmatt, it will give you a lot of insights on what bots are profitable or not each round in real-time. This is the future of marketing without the use of advertisement.

Thank you, join us on http://STEEMspeak.com for 24/7 voice/text chat about everything STEEM

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I feel like this argument has been going on forever now and still steemit is running stronger then ever even with tons more bidbots. Wake up people its all a game start playing it ;)

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The best comment, my friend.

Here, on steembottracker it is clear and obvious that the bots do not agree and steal only money.

The problem with bid bots and any kind of upvote bot has absolutely zero to do with the reward pool. The real problem has to do with the value of the platform eventually boiling down to the value of the content on the platform. Curation, real curation, is essential for driving people to maximize the quality of their content. Fake curation hurts quality and thus hurts the intrinsic long term value of the platform. Users producing mediocre stuff end up with fake reputations what makes things only worse.

The underlying problem though goes deeper than bidbots. Bidbots are just a symptom of a failing platform feature. The promotion feature of the platform, in its current form, doesn't work. With small adjustments the promotion feature could be fixed to both draw in top content creators and to provide promotion users with the proper exposure.

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As a content creator myself...i cringe a lil when i say this....but the value of the platform is not determined by the value of the content on it. That is only one piece of the pie....and sadly not even close to the biggest. The value of the blockchain is the primary factor in the value of the platform.
There will only be a few of us creators that really last through these pioneer days....it's not until the investors come that real content will come with it.
Take youtube for example....the content on youtube was absolute trash before the investors got on board.
Same goes here....a few here now will make the grade, the rest will come when the money comes.
You have two options as a creator here now.... 1, Dig the fuck in and try to make the cut... 2, Keep getting by for now till the money does come and you reap the benefit by the increase in value of what you earned.
That's all there is buddy.
This is your chance to find out if you can cut the mustard...that's it.
Actually, that goes for the devs too.

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I agree with you. As a content consumer the value of steemit depends on the quality of its content. As a content producer the value of steemit only matters if the rewards depend on quality of content produced. That quality has intrinsic and extrinsic components, or perhaps we might say objective and subjective components. Objective may be the originality of the post, how well content meets a certain information goal, etc. Subjective includes people's interest and feeling of the content, as well as temporal aspects, since some information is quite valuable only at certain times. However, if the economic incentives are such that we can treat content as a black box and the only factors for upvotes and rewards are how much someone can make from that black box, then content quality is irrelevant and the platform suffers, at least as a serious platform for content. It can still however, be a good platform for treating content as tokens, where the value of those tokens are based on factors such as how much power is behind the poster and the groups who will automatically upvote the token. As I learn more about Steemit, I am constantly reminded of my favorite Hayek quote: "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design." (From Hayek's "The Fatal Conceit: The Errors of Socialism")

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Personally, I'm quite happy with what the platform has done for me. My fiction makes slightly more on steemit than it does on all e-book channels combined. Still far from the quitting my day job lever, but that is fine for me. But when I try to convince friend content providers who actually did quit their day job that steemit is a great platform for them to try, there is one major issue keeping them from even trying and that is the inability to turn their following on social media into advertising revenues. You could have a hundred million non-member pageviews on steemit and it wouldn't get you a single cent inadd revenues.

On the flip side, you can pay 20,000 SBD for 'promotion' and all it gets is a place in the promoted tab that nobody looks at ever.

It seems so simple, really. Combine the two as part of the platform. If a non-logged-in user visits a blog through a social media link, show some of the relevant 'promoted' content to that user. Then pay the blogger who brought in the non-member content using some of the money the people promoting their content brought in. That way you lowe the threshold for the professional content creators to join the platform, pull in higher quality content providers and give the people spending money on the promotion feature a bit of bang for their buck.

I think if the platform solves this bit in this or a similar way, the gap that now gets filled by bidbots will disappear and so will the justification for using them as self-upvoting proxy. If I'm correct about this, a facility (bidbots) that curretly has the unintended side effect of decreasing the value of the platform could be replaced using simple means with an improved version of an existing platform facility (promotion) that would end up increasing the intrinsic value of the platform.

Hope I'm making at least a tiny bit of sense here.

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I like your idea of of including non-logged-in viewers, though I wonder if that might open the system to gaming from external bots. Still, rewarding authors who bring in new users or viewers in some way would be great. For example, I posted one of my recent steemit blog articles on LinkedIn a few days ago and got 168 views (so far) along with a nice list of where those individuals work. A good number of them most likely clicked on the link and read the post here. In fact, I suspect that more of them read it than Steemit users, even though it is probably of more interest to Steemit users (its a post about a web-based Steem Tag Explorer that I made in Tableau). Perhaps the easiest way to address this issue is to rapidly speed up account creation and simplify the onboarding process. I would have paid to set up an account, but as someone new to the crypto world, I found the pay options confusing. In particular, they did not even list a price to create an account.

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though I wonder if that might open the system to gaming from external bots.

it will. the Animal Kingdom does not come close to how wild steemit can be. feeding upon feeding.

Wow this one is some house I gotta spend some time in!
That pool itself is enough for me! :D

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You received a 62.50% upvote from @brotherhood thanks to @mamalikh13!,
join on @brotherhood community on discord channel:https://discord.gg/3HZdaGk and share your post there.
Delegate to Bot and Get High Return Fix 100% earning return,
bidders will always win something and it will adapt to distribute all the 100% upvote ,now we reached to 23000 SP and recommend. send the 0.1 to 0.6 sbd or steem.
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Bidbots are capitalism at her finest. Anyone can use them, and they help users big and small. IF bidbots were draining the rewardpool, those who have the biggest stake would have raised holy hell against them. The only users I have seen that are saying this are smaller accounts that do not use them. I personally only use them on my game posts and one or two good cause posts for the marketing aspect. I am competing just like everyone else is to show off my good content. I do not write bad quality anything, so I want people to see my work any way I can.

let me throw in the good ol' Altruism use for this if chosen to do so, you can use these for others posts you consider are good for the whole platform or need a boost or whatever....
Human Nature is what it is and it with the transparency of Steem, we the stakeholders can readily see how people use their own funds....it is redundant to bot bots then bot the bots with moar bots , just a thought!
( not talking spamming peoples posts with what is already a transparent nature of what they used and how on bots, that thing and the grammarnazi bot feel like root canals)
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moar bots.gif

Now my de facto gif for when people fear there are too many bots. Good point on transparency. Not like they are paying them under the table, we can see whom is bidding, and on what posts.

BidBots - They do not drain the Steem reward pool

OK, but they rarely help fill it back up either.

The problem: Many large accounts who would help keep abuse/rewards in check in the past would flag at will prior to their arrival. @smooth, @freedom, @dan, @ned, @berniesanders, yourself + others would frequently bring the flag out for other whales, and just one or two of you, could cut out whatever abuse was taking place.

I know that you and Bernie still flag from time to time, but the majority of the above have their stake in Bidbots or are no longer flagging. Hence we've had over 6 months of blatant Reward pool abuse from whale accounts.

@fulltimegeek is the only consistent flagger with any real stake, and it is not enough. The @thejohalfiles smashed a couple of EOS shill posts the other day, but the other large stake holders are either absent, or tied to Bidbot delegations.

I don't care about whales getting richer, that is supposed to happen. And I no longer care about shit-posts on Trending boosted by bots. But when you guys cannot manage the abuse at the top between you, then it will (and it has) trickle down through all levels of stakeholders.

I do not want to post 10 posts per day and upvote myself and only myself, lol, that would just create flags against me from other users with more steempower then me.

You should try it. Who's going to flag you? The power is absent/delegated to Bots.

Lovely post... And the pools are amazing.

I don’t use bots , I don’t know how to. But I do upvote content I like and most of the time I upvote people who take the time to reply. Cheers mike

Popping popcorn for the comment section.

Content Creators and Former Trenders will be incoming.

Most of the people who have strong opinions about the bots have the best intentions but were not here to watch the mess that used to be the trending page. Although I think their view is idealistic, their motives are good.

I will go on record to say although I acknowledge they create a few issues, I enjoy SteemIt much better with the voting bots in action.

Then again, I am not afraid to use my flag.

So if I spend $50, I get $1 worth of advertising, PLUS I can vote for this post and your witness account for free?

Where do I sign up!

That's the deal of the century!

And it's called "visibility" so everyone can see my amazing business deal making skills!

Where have you been all my life!

We can jump into the reward pool and not even get wet! So refreshing.

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no....your cost was $1

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You get one dollar worth of advertising if your advertising cost one dollar, yes. Spent 50 though. Spent 50 for 1 dollar worth of advertising.

If the entire reward pool was $50, those buying and selling these votes have made it worth $1 in reality. That's a fancy way of driving the true value of this reward pool into the ground, and for what? 19 views on your youtube video? That's smart.

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i tried. i got burned.

I have so much to learn!!!! I have been writing articles every day, the best that I could do. It has frustrated me and I am still frustrated, it is not good for my psyche! Reading this article gives me some hope. I am so low in voting power, because I keep upvoting anyone who comments on my article, and upvote people I know for writing articles, regardless of content. In 5 days or so, my VP will be at 100%. I resolve to refrain from upvoting until then. Thank you for this post. I appreciate it. Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge... not every one, even when asked directly, will tell me. They get major $ upvotes from specific users, and I am so frustrated, it made me cry a couple of times. Sometimes I wish so hard that I be hit by a whale, so that my steem power will be nudged up higher. I need to know how and when to use a specific bidbot. I don't know anything about bidding in auctions. I hope that you will find the time to read this. I need help.

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LOL Here's @SilverSaver888, and I was thinking of you when Fyrst wrote the section about draining your VP too low. I was going to link you to this article, and encourage you to save up that VP!
If you have a smartphone, I think you can get a Steemit Account linked thru busy.org and then you get a Slider for Voting, regardless of your Banked Up SP! Someone please verify this...

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@underground I found a slider!!!! I am still at 56%, so just a few more days, and I hope to do better with slider! But with the low value of my vote, it is best that I vote at 100% but really limit it to 10 a day. Thanks for your support and your help, my friend. Thanks for having my back.

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I think you're doing GREAT @silversaver888 :)
You shouldn't be sad at all! Your posts do much better than so many people I know and you have wonderful quality! :)
I'll send you a DM :)

Гениально! Фирстиккен крут!

"The fact our company stay invested with STEEM is because of all the crap content around here, which in investor terms are great because that means there is room to grow, which is awesome for us."

But cant you see this is a bad thing for the growth of the platform? I mean with that comment you acknowledge that your company provides a service that goes against the core ideas behind the platform you are working on.
Are you not saying: "Yes, please give us more crap content, its good for business".

  1. When there is a human factor involved in reward distribution you have creators actively working to improve their content to attract rewards, bringing up the value of the platform.
  2. When you can get to trending with bots by doing the bare minimum of not getting blacklisted (super easy if i might add) then there is absolutely no incentive to improve anything you do.

All of that goes completely against the interest of the platform and in the long term against the interest of you as someone with a large stake here.
Bots automate the reward distribution completely remove the human factor and turn Steemit from a social media website to a massive ad banner.
What happens if bot SP delegation reaches 80%, 90%, 95%?
Whos going to be left here? No new users will come here once they realize that everything with any kind of rewards is bought and payed for. Do you really believe that users will buy SBD/STEEM to pay for upvotes, gambling that the price of Steem will rise so that they can earn a bit? No investors or marketers will come here because they will see that they have no one to advertise to.

What you are left with is people blogging for no one, blogging for no rewards, and spammers in the comment section that dont realize writing:
"oh nice very good post, many lucks family friends".... gains them absolutely nothing.

The bot discussion was never about "reward pool rape". It was about what the future holds if this goes on.

"You were BORN TO STAND OUT" Thats a clever pitch. People are suckers for motivational quotes. ;)

The fact is, bots take away the choice of the community to decide what are the people of value, who are those that bring the most value to all of us. Give bots more SP and there will be absolutely no way to determine that.
Care or care not, im just speaking my mind...

The reason I buy Steem because I'm investing it to bidbots, because without it what's the reason to buy Steem? if it is from small voting profits, I rather buy more Neblio or NEO then with passive profits and some bonus airdrops .

From a marketing point of view indeed the Bidbots make sense, and they used to make a lot of sense when there were only 4 or 5 of them.

Also when they happen to be slightly profitable, they allow to offer someone else a vote much stronger than what most of us can afford and that is a great feature too.

I think the current drama about/against bidBOTs comes from the fact that since the release of the open code for one, everyone and their cat own a bidbot, and due to the increase of demand for delegations the price in the delegation lease market has increased and this has a twofold negative effect.

On one hand since there is a myriad of bots most bods have reduced their ROI making them less interesting for the end user.

On the other hand delegation leasing for organic curation has become prohibitive which is sad.

To cite and example I write in English and Spanish, to me it makes sense to heavily use a biBOT when i post in English to increase the chances of being seen and usually there is ROI from it as there are lots of curators out there.

In spanish thou, considering there are only a few curation groups operating it makes almost no sense as it is almost sure you would not break even. (but you get a gazillion of dust votes 0.001)

I do use bidBOTs in Spanish sometimes when doing my witness updates or when I really want/need to have my content seen, but i do it in all knowledge i am sacrificing ROI for visibility.

bidBOTs and BOTs in general are not bad for the platform, irresponsible users are bad for the platform and with the proliferation of both blacklisting and whitelisting it should be under control.

I think the secret of it all resides into finding a balance between marketing and ROI for the content creators.

The current demand for leases to fuel bidbots driving the price of leases up will be what will flip the balance as eventually the ones fueled only by leases will stop being profitable for bot owners and only the ones running with their own SP will remain.

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irresponsible users are bad for the platform and with the proliferation of both blacklisting and whitelisting it should be under control.

Indeed, it has become more narrow as we have seen many smart solutions implemented to combat spam/scam etc. It is more profitable for a shitposter to hire quality original writing from a bachelor english writer from a foreign country. They realize there is more money to be made if the post is really good when they trend it. I like it.

I agree with you when you said bidbot had in a way reduce self voting as whales can now delegate steem power to bidbots for interest in return. Bidbot have also bring about profit business on the steemit platform. But it should be watched not to promot under rated post on trending feeds.

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Yeah, back then each post were cringe-worthy due to its shitpost quality with guaranteed upvotes. Very glad we have a more gold standard economy now and the masses have access to steempower through self-serving systems. People should use them instead of being afraid of them. The people who speak loud against bidbots either never tried them or do not what the hell they talk about. Glad things have changed for the better. But it is important to educate people on these things so that FUD and LIES do not get to root.

@fyrstikken, thanks for this insightful article. Well, I feel the steemit blockchain is structured in a way to favour the investors who turn out to be whales. And even with the advent of bidbots, the system is still being milked by the big guys, the circle-jerking continues. Newbies and minnows are barely supported these by the bigger guys. Only a very few handful of whales want to support others. Bloggers will have to sweat it out and grow in the system if they are consistent or quit if they feel they're not making any tangible progress.

I just wish the system can be more fair and encourage new users to stay, but unfortunately the reverse is the case. Will this system get better than it is now?

Anyway, thanks once again.

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I just wish the system can be more fair and encourage new users to stay, but unfortunately the reverse is the case. Will this system get better than it is now?

Hmm, well - It cannot become more fair, than fair.

My 1 SP is worth exactly the same as your 1 SP, and there are 77 million STEEM for sale on the markets or in liquid supply as we keep producing more of the stuff. Finding ways to grab some of those STEEM cannot be that hard I think.

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@frystikken I like the way you explained exactly what the spirit of the bid bot should be for the user: a marketing tool. And how you make it clear that the bid bot has to make money, and the user has to pay for a service.
The part that is still fuzzy in my mind, and the reason i'm putting my comment after the trail from @evarich's comment is that, in the current environment that she describes (where bid-bots give some power to the masses to buy SP but there is still a lot of circle-jerk going around, and minnows struggle to make Steemit profitable for them), how do you see the future of Steemit? If the current situation is maintained over time, and minnows come and go but no significant amount of them become dolphins or whales, does Steemit have a future and its currency will maintain its strenght?

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Hmm.. Chances are that STEEM could be the place for millionaires and strong political and professional entertainers also... I could see STEEM go to $1000 per token in some years. Will you hodl until then or will you sell for cheap? the millionaire is or is not you in the future.

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Speaking for myself, I think I'll stick around. The good thing about this platform is that even if you don't invest anything, you can still voice your opinions, learn from others and establish human networks. Tenure in the platform, even if you don't post much but at least keep an active voice, will inevitably transform itself into higher SP and higher rewards. I would be stupid to stop and let my account die, even if at this time I don't feel too enthusiastic to make my blog bloom.
I believe that crypto currencies and block-chain technology are here to stay and I plan to learn as much as I can and teach my kids in the process, so they grow in this environment and can enter and play the game well when they are of age.

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Agreed, this is the new Twitter in some ways. Famous people are on Twitter now and Steemit will continue to accelerate in attracting bigger fish like @Cernovich and @Stefan.Molyneux to name a few.

The BidBot Owners have open communication lines between each other if something needs to be done/changed/talked about...

I know while mentioning bidbots in the discord as "the problem" with curation, @whatsup had explained to me why I was wrong about them being "the problem". The explanation given refered to a time when there were no bidbots. I'm not anti bidbot I just think that it would be an easy way to help make curation better if the bid bots waited until after so many minutes have passed giving people a chance to curate first. Could you please clarify tho why this would not be an optimal way to at least aid in making curation better.

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Have you heard of @frontrunner? if you trail that account and vote on what he votes on with the same % as he does, you will be frontrunning @booster and earn great curation rewards when @booster votes. There are of course bots on github you can download that can monitor and do this with every bidbot out there. Point is that everyone can earn curation from bidbots by voting before they do, and since it is all transparent it is really easy to do if you need to grow an account for a certain goal etc.

Bidbots also get some of the curations, but frontrunners get the most, a nice little distribution of wealth when you do it right.

It is pretty easy stuff.

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God damn proof of brain hashing algorithm making me fucking work. (would be on frontrunner already but im too poor atm) Working on my first fork actually right now to get monies for that

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Yes, Proof Of Brain makes you work. Indeed :)
Good luck with your fork, I hope you make some monies.

Once upon a time...December....they were working out for me, now not so much. If I'm interpreting correctly you see using the bidbots as a marketing function?

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yes, only a marketing function. It is, of course, awesome when they are profitable, like two days ago when they all were giving out 2X-3X due to the dip in the market and some panic. But essentially they are only tools of marketing, for whatever reason you may have.

You could also add sponsors, ads etc to your blog before you trend it, that way you can get "coca cola or Pepsi" to pay for your marketing in exchange for them to be seen on a trending post... There are many ways to monetize what you do, just be creative.

Awesome post, and since ave been among the steemians i have never seen a beutiful post like this on this platform, infact this will really help alot most of the people have been meeting on this platform are only keeping a gooe fruit like these to themeselves, some are even calling themselve whenever the drop a post for the fellow to upvote them so them only sharing ot between themselves but thank God for my friend @kesolink whom introduce steemit to me never hide anyhing, and a very big thanks to u @fyrstikken for breaking everything down here; Yes

         DO NOT DRAIN REWARDPOOL

Yes, when you have something to show or you have to buildup your account then the bidbots are the things, bidbots can help us to get in more followers, more followers means potential upvotes and potential recognition and your product (BLOG POST) will get more exposure and that way your niche will get true value, and when it's come to bidbots many people get into influence due to speculations, but before judging something we have to understand the concept of bidbots and bidbots are nothing but the effective form of promotion so promotion is ancient concept and it's most successful way towards the exposure. Thanks for sharing this post with us and wishing you an great day. Stay blessed. 🙂

Thanks for the history lesson on STEEM. That was before I was on here so I am unfamiliar, first hand, with the way things were. I know there were issues in the beginning that are no longer here. I guess bidbots create another issue although I dont bemoan anyone who creates them or uses them.

I do like that you state that they are for marketing purposes (or whatever other personal reasons) and not for a straight up profit on the post. I do agree there are reasons to get one's post ranked and on the trending page. But I fear too many look at it as a pay X and get back X + Y.

Perhaps people will read this post and understand what they are getting into when they do use a bot.

Bots ruin all integrity in Steemit

Their form of being able to upvote not only financially, but also one’s reputation score creates a dilemma in preserving the concept that good content gets rewarded.
It makes people lazy in finding good content and instead they sell out their votes to spend their time elsewhere, while becoming more powerful every minute.

Even the Bot Queen @jerrybanfield will

somewhat stop having his bot work for him. At least, the one we know of.

Yes, steemit has grown

but is it only new bots? It sure seems that way.

Stop ruining Steemit! Stop being lazy and stop tarnishing the integrity.

You Bot queens should be banned. The app Lit has banned bots to preserve the integrity and work that it takes to upvote only good content. The bot queens are the ones controlling the trending pages and make good content Original creators give up.

The truth is the stakeholders are the ones to decide on how the stakes should run no one can reap from he or she did not sow

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If we are born to stand out, then we will try different things to stand out including things I may not like and things you may disagree with. I believe in freewill and and that the better ideas and posts will rise and that the rewards cannot be raped. People who support communism may also say that the reward pools can be raped. I believe in free markets, and that we all have to fight for the rewards pool. I do not believe in sharing the pool. I believe in fierce competition. I do not upvote myself, currently, but I don't care if people do it as that is their choice. I do not want to tell people what they can or cannot do. Let the markets decide. In time, the better ways survive. Upvoting one self is like smoking. I do not smoke but I do not tell people not to smoke. It is up to each person to smoke or not to smoke. And it is better to not smoke. But freewill is even better than forcing people to do this or to do that. #FreeTommy

This post has received a 100.00 % upvote from @booster thanks to: @clayford, @clayford.

This post has received a 10.08 % upvote from @boomerang.

Then there should be 1 and only bidbot. And who would that be? 😂

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There are blockchain limits, so we need a lot of bidbots because one single bot can only serve max 28,800 upvotes per day without a comment, and only 4,320 upvotes with a comment/receipt, and there are over 1 million accounts and a lot of activity. Remember you can only vote every 3 seconds and comment every 20 seconds, those numbers play a large role in how the bots have a maximum potential.

Thanks we were all in wrong impression

very very nice

I agree that bidbots are much better than the uberwhale/uberminnow system that Steemit started out with.

We still have a long way to go before Steemit comes into its own, however. I find it amusing that almost every post on the trending page is still about Steemit itself. The day will come when we branch out out a social media platform, but for now...

Well, for now there is influence to be built. The price of Steem is still (relatively) cheap, and it's still possible to build a brand here before the company "goes public", as it were.

I'm looking forward to where we go from here.

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The day will come when we branch out out a social media platform, but for now...

i highly doubt that will come anytime soon as were still a huge work in progresss

good post

I support this motion

It's your vote do with it what you want. If you want to sell it that's fine. Someone is always willing to buy votes to gain influence. The more bid bots there are the more people that can raise their reputation, to protect themselves from down votes on their shit post, because you can only really have an effect on someone with less reputation score than yourself when it comes to down votes, yes you can remove a few pennies or dollars from the post payout, but you are never going to touch that person's reputation. With bid bots we can have lots and lots of Reputation level 80 people by the end of the year. Even if they do not have any SP at all. I look at some people that have joined since december, and they are in the mid 60's reputation, yet have virtually no SP. No vote power, and no Steem. And are really earning nothing.

I think more bid bots are going to be built, I think more people are going to BUY their reputation level. I think that will be great. We need more people with Reputations of 70 on steemit, and now instead of a steady climb over the course of a year and a half, they can do it in less than half the time, and then act like big shits with no SP.

Reputation 74 in 3 months will mean absolutely nothing to anyone, other than the accusations of oh they bought their reputation. And in 80 percent of the cases it will be true.

But really, people are allowed to sell votes, people are allowed to buy votes, and people can vote for what they want, or not vote, or down vote, all based on how they feel at the time of voting, and that is the way it should be, your vote, your choice.

Enjoy your level 74 Reputation, I am sure there will be many many more joining you soon.

i dont received my upvote in the last round,i send you two tranfers , 2.5 SBD

i hear first time about people live in bidbots and and i read such a amazing writing.
a great and fruitful result u rewarded.

Two things @fyrstikken. Yea, I mentioned you so as to have your attention.

  1. Care to elaborate how the pool is refilled with fresh water when lots of greedy people, not just limited to bots, are constantly draining it on a daily basis? You never talk about that in details, let us know in layman's terms.

  2. How do bid bots owners handle those malicious flags targeted at the trending posts which resulted in a loss of investment?

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The pool fills and pays at a constant rate. There is no such thing as 'draining' the reward pool really. Either it goes one place or it goes another. Every. Single. Day. People whining about 'draining' are essentially saying they don't like where it is going (which is a valid opinion to have, but the 'draining' rhetoric is just that).

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Simple as that.
You couldn' explain it better.

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OK, nice! Great information. I upvoted you 100%.👌

vote for vote
I give you an up vote on your first post! Please give me a follow and I will give you a follow in return!
You also should give me up vote in my blog than I also give you. If you give me up vote than replay this …

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No one wants your zero cent upvote

Now I really think bidbot is using the right way to help out. Many said they are crippling the rewards but I see that if they do not have the correct voting power how they help out, correct! Oh I try to shorten what I really mean. That is they help instead make worst.

i agree with all of this, but still i hate bidbots, because they are deleting good content from trending and hot page

A nice swimming pool^^

Excellente article! *****

You have the whole reason, you are brilliant. Thank you, for sharing with us.

Lovely weekend ;-} @supernova55

When you explain it like that, they don't sound as bad as they're made it to be.

So concise. When I read this article I'm so glad to have joined STEEM at the time I did. Seems like there's been some interesting evolutionary measures on the platform..

the pool is always full and has everything for everyone :)

Great post, keep up the good work. There is to much bs regarding bid bots, they are a great opportunity and actually level the playing field like you have pointed out here.

Great post, keep up the good work. There is to much bs regarding bid bots, they are a great opportunity and actually level the playing field like you have pointed out here.

I've never had an issue with bidbots (still don't, use them from time to time) but I love reading about steemit's history, learning why some love them while others despise them. Guess in time I'll make to my choice.
Cheers for the good read and the rich history :)

a have been using the tag nobidbot fore som time is not like a dont like bidbost its just it not fore me. a under stand more an more on how it works
a feel most minnow dont understand how it works and then are mad at the system not relay understand how it works. the more a understand the less a care. its a good thing a care on my posts and my freands here but not on ther negativity here on steemit. so just follow the flow dont be the rock in the river.

Why should you rape the reward pool if your VP is low? If your VP is low your vote is worth less and so you aren't raping it.

tl;dr but OMG so much this

I do not want to post 10 posts per day and upvote myself and only myself, lol, that would just create flags against me from other users with more steempower

so is it like this

if I spend $50 to their then , their will be marketing cost just $1, \and get $49 worth of upvotes.

I really needed to hear this. I've been debating a lot lately about whether to go full on with the bid bots, as I'm one of those people building a STEEM brand that will reach into the physical world, and organic reach is becoming harder and harder.

I have had a plan in the works for a while to boost myself and my project to at least dolphin status, and it may just be time to enact said plan

The ones who rape the rewardpool are easy to spot as they have drained their own vote-power down to an almost minimum, so stupid

So taking less from the reward pool by consuming all its voting power is considered as reward pool rape while taking more by intelligently restricting ones votes to 10 a day is not? I don't get it.

Congratulations @fyrstikken!
Your post was mentioned in the Steemit Hit Parade in the following categories:

  • Comments - Ranked 9 with 101 comments
  • Pending payout - Ranked 3 with $ 605,66

I see this post and understand some of those arguments. But why the hell are you commenting like this (see below)? I don't see anything good whithin such thing and must question your arguments while reading that you are willing to violate people in front of their family and stuff and self-voting such comment big time! What about that?

crap.png

Thanks for the info @fyrstikken. The truth is that we all went through the inconvenience of not having votes in the post and what one wants most is to see the results of their work. You just have to be patient and continue with the work.

i think bot are good for us but we must to use them wisely.
good luck!!!
have a great day!!!

Wow thanks allot, now I Am understanding some secrets behind this Steemit , though on your previous post you said we the minnows she get off our ass and do something meaningful with our life and I still stand that the only way the minnows can grow is, if only whales can help thanks

Not enough is said about the effect of the bidbots. If you write a post you shouldn't have to get a bidbot to upvote it. That is not a community. There is something majorly wrong here that people have to think in this way. the bid bot creators are making the money and people are just tossing their hard earned money away. If members want to use bots that is fine but at least put a limit on the amounts paid and the number of posts per week. I guarantee you new members won't stay if it carries on the way it is. There is no future with Steem the way it is. It has to change for the better of everyone on here. Short sighted greed is not the answer.

The reason I purchase Steem in light of the fact that I'm contributing it to bidbots, on the grounds that without it what's the motivation to purchase Steem? on the off chance that it is from little voting benefits, I rather purchase more Neblio or NEO then with aloof benefits and some extra airdrops .

20180604_034949.png
Dear @booster , i send you .800 SBD some days ago, but you dont return this SBD, may be you are forgotten this. i wish you will check your story and return my sbd plz.

I concur that bidbots are greatly improved than the uberwhale/uberminnow framework that Steemit began with.

Despite everything we have far to go before Steemit makes its mark, be that as it may. I think that its entertaining that relatively every post on the inclining page is still about Steemit itself. The day will come when we fan out an online networking stage, yet until further notice...

All things considered, for the time being there is impact to be fabricated. The cost of Steem is still (moderately) shoddy, it's as yet conceivable to fabricate a brand here before the organization "opens up to the world", in a manner of speaking.

It's definitely a complex argument with valid points on either side. It really just depends which direction the platform wants to head into the future.

Bidbots are just a way for people to promote their content. People are always going to want to do this, and when there is a demand, someone will supply it. I am #probidbots

NICE POOL

Waoo!
You just hit the nail by it head
Most misunderstood what this bots does and blindly make critics

I'm so happy to read this after a month off steemit and this is the 3rd article I bookmarked

Spread the word bidbot are doing great!!

I've been reading a lot on this topic from time to time. This is the first post on this topic that defends bidbots in a very logical way. Very detailed post indeed. I'm for sure going to use this post as a reference for similar posts and also, in posts that I write on this topic. It's good to implement structure when it comes to some organizational or state setup. However, when it comes to this world, something global like Steemit, people from across the world join it and participate as per their capabilities. Facebook could fall flat on the ground in its infancy if it had followed the strict criteria of not allowing everybody saying their hearts out at that platform. It did not do that and eventually, it succeeded to a limit where it had more users than one of the most populated countries in the world. Recently, we have been seeing every 5th post at Facebook as an ad. So, they don't care about quality but still are leading the social media game. Similarly, Steemit is still in its beta stage and it has achieved a lot. There is still a long way to go. Personally, I don't like to axe on my own feet by implementing the strict criteria aiming at quality content. Plagiarism is not acceptable. That being said, if it's original, for me, it's fine. Bidbots have become important part of the game. I don't see them going anywhere. There are always good and bad side of everything. This is also true for bidbots. People were misusing bidbots so an action was taken and a 5 days limit was set. This makes sense and I appreciate it. This is how we will keep seeing improvements in the system but it will take time. Let's not try to build Rome in one day. Good luck @fyrstikken.

Steem On!

Thank you I find this post helpful and got rid of some of the myths I had from other users. Thanks for taking your time writing this intriguing article

Bid bots are not bad for rewardpool in my opinion. You made a very good point of view here @fyrstikken Most of us just only want to invest and not to post anything and bid bots are way to do it. And investors are the people who will pump the price of the Steem in the market.

Thanks for showing me the other side! You may have convinced me to use one, i spend a lot of time when i write an article and it's disheartening when i get no readers. I'm knew to steemit and was wondering what is the best ways to get views

@fyrstikken Thank you for explaining the bid-bot economics. I have few questions regarding post promotion economics.

A few months ago I watched Ned's video from SteemFest 2016.

He says the following at 1:09 minutes into the video:

For the first time you can bootstrap a currency now with Steem around people's attention. So people are paying their attention to the website, to steemit.com or to another website based on Steem. And then those people can say to people who want their attention: advertisers or people who want to promote posts - "You can only get your content into my feed if you pay me".

I might be wrong, but it seems to me, rewarding and incentivizing the content consumption is neglected on the platform. Not everybody can be a great blogger, vlogger, content creator. In my opinion, a majority are content consumers. But since content consumption doesn't get rewarded as much, many focus on becoming content creators.

Since bid-bots serves as providing visibility, promotion, and marketing for its users, maybe bit-bots can fill the gap of rewarding content consumers as a mechanism of incentivizing consumption of bid-bot voted posts.

Can Dtube model of curation reward distribution be implemented in bid-bots? For example, a bid-bot can share 50% percent of its curation rewards with those who voted on the posts, giving them additional curation reward.

Do you think something like this or other innovative methods can attract more people to view and consume promoted posts? Can this even be viable for bid-bots?

You mentioned @frontrunner in one of the comments. That is a good idea to maximize curation rewards. However, it only works for automated votes, which doesn't really encourage content consumption. What other methods do think post promoters can implement in the future that will incetivize manual curation and content consumption? or is there even need for that?

My thoughts are bid-bots have a great potential to revolutionize and bring new creative ways of advertising that can also benefit the ad/post/content consumers.

Thank you for your answers in advance.

Steemit is becoming more and more advanced but seems hard to make it these days unless you swim with the whales. Kind of keeps me from investing more I wonder if others feel the same way?

Great view

you seem to have the impression that the reward pool depends on the total vp and that not optimally using your vp will result in less rewards. Can you clarify this? I was under the assumption that the only reason why we should optimally use our vp is to make it harder to exploit the reward pool, but not change the size of the reward pool

On the very first part I definatly feel you. While I love steem and everything it represents, upvoting someone but not seeing any difference feels very hollow. That being said, I am looking forward to the day that will change.

I actually tried out some bots with the first scraps of reward money I received just yesterday. So far, it has been good. Haven't crushed any big waves, obviously, but I can see how doing that constantly in the right way can help you reinvest your income on here to help further your growth.

Any tips you can give on using bots as a minnow?

I dont think so too much these information but photos really really wonderfull ;)) I love this things and I want to be there all of them :D thank you ..

Here's the @penguinpablo daily statistic about paidbots. Between 1-2%. Nothing crucial...

How can it be that 'do' and 'not' became tags in your post? You, someone who has been here from the beginning, could make a mistake like that. It's surprising.

No, matter. I wonder whether you actually spent more on bitbots than you are getting in reward.

Thanks for that post. I will stay with my up votes . I am taking care of to not get to low my voting power

You got a 81.58% upvote from @upme thanks to @clayford! Send at least 3 SBD or 3 STEEM to get upvote for next round. Delegate STEEM POWER and start earning 100% daily payouts ( no commission ).

I must agree with you.
bots make opportunity to smaller people To by even visible at all there is not so many ways for people who are talented but don't have money to be noticed

Non-proof of brain voting, as is done with voting bots, is mining counterfeit steem in my opinion.

in my opinion.postingan you are very cool and good, in addition tu useful for me and for all colleagues steemit.dan hopefully your post will be better again amiin thanks for the postingannya.in my opinion.postingan you are very cool and good, in addition tu useful for me and for all colleagues steemit.dan hopefully your post will be better again amiin thanks for the postingannya.in my opinion.postingan you are very cool and good, in addition tu useful for me and for all colleagues steemit.dan hopefully your post will be better again amiin thanks for the postingannya.

in my opinion.postingan you are very cool and good, in addition tu useful for me and for all colleagues steemit.dan hopefully your post will be better again amiin thanks for the postingannya.

Hi @fyrstikken
Personally, I am totally against Bitbots, for the simple reason that it is against the logic that the best content should be rewarded on merit. (I know this is not as it is working even if we had no bidbots). Further to this the BitBot owner is the person that makes the most money out of this, where the author almost don't benefit, except for the fact that he/she does get exposure and may gain followers if the post is good. I also believe that the bidbot owners also get additional curation rewards, as users of the service normally get a few bidbots to vote, thus pushing up the rewards on a sometimes not deserving post, this seems like reward pool drain to me. I suppose one can say that the bid bot owners do give value to the users, otherwise there would be no demand for the, this is just my feelings on the subject.
Thanks for sharing your view on the subject.

excelente post :D

Good article . I put my voice down. This should be seen by many. Please give me also.

Хорошая статья . Я ставлю свой голос. Это должны увидеть многие. Поставь пожалуйста и мне.

Great post in which I am in full agreement @fyrstikken ! long time no see my friend! I use the. https://steembottracker.com/ everyday, It's a fantastic tool. upped and resteemed!👍👍👍✌

All strategies are good in order to get more scores in our publications and of course ... more income!

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The problem with bidbots is that they are rent-seeking behavior that ultimately does not benefit the platform as a whole. They simply allow higher payouts to be provided to posts of any quality level. Ultimately, I think this breaks the economic engine of Steemit.