Bid bots are being used not enough = maximum profit
I noticed that lots of bid bots don't receive enough bids. You can see this because their bidding rounds are following up much sooner. And sometimes there are even no bids which causes the bot to remain at 100% VP.
If you look at the door following screen print you can see that almost all bots in the top10 have this. I wouldn't call it a problem as I dislike the bots. So happy to see them receiving less money.
I decided to test this for @rocky1 as I thought that could give me the highest profit, die to the combination of minimum time + max ROI.
I send 3 SBD and after 13 minutes I received a $4.66 upvote. That means I lose 11% as curation. So I get 0.89$4.66=4.14
This gives 2.07 SBD and 2.07/1.23(Steem price)=1.69 Steem
At the internal market I get 1.25 SBD per 1 Steem. So 1.691.25 =2.11.
So I end up with 2.11+2.07=4.18 SBD (if I didn't make any mistakes in my calculation?).
So my final result is a profit of 1.18 SBD on an investment of 3 SBD. That is a ROI of 39% while the bot has a maximum ROI of 10%.
If you were able to understand this post then I'm quite certain you know why my ROI is much higher than what the bot maximum ROI is. More interesting question is why are the bots not being used enough to at least absorp/use all available voting power?
I think the most popular explanation is the very low Steem price. Many Steemonians believe the lower the Steem price the more Steemonians become inactive because it feels like one can't earn money via Steemit.
I still keep wondering what to do? From an ethical point of view I believe Steemit should NOT have any bid bots. But from an economic point of view the earning from this one time use of a bid bot is equal to what I earn in a full week from blogging and commenting.
For most people this question is a no Brainer. If you came here for the money you use the bid bots or you quit!
Quitting happens all the time because most people can't do the math half as good as I can. They will never make any profit.
I believe bots should be there because they are business on Steemit. I am user of bid bots but my idea was not to earn from them, I want more people to see my posts. If now we can earn with bots, even better.
I think you should start being a user of Minnowbooster do you can get a better ROI on your loans.
https://www.minnowbooster.net/market?direction=asc&sort=effective_price
If you need me to I could show you how bad your ROI is with those bot loans.
Maybe I will try that. Thanks 😀
But this is meant to lease out the SP one owns, right?
Yeah with that link you can lease your Steem Power to me.
Yeah with that link you can lease your Steem Power to me.
Just a different question, did you ever calculate what APR you get off you 100% self upvote?
I prefer to see Steemit without bid bots.
If you only send small amounts to the bid bots I don't think it will give any notable extra visibility. In your case I know you spend a bit more and make it to hot and trending. That probably provides some extra visibility. But still I wonder if it gives any significant long term effect?
Another thing I don't like on the bots is that it takes away about 1/3 of all upvotes. That's quite a lot!
And last but not least it's like the bot owners are the only ones that have the right to earn big time from it. But why's that? Those bot owners are already the rich ones.
Having said this all, I also think it's a very complex subject. So perhaps I should adjust my opinion some day. So I would be happy to have a good conversation about it.
Last but not least, as economist I would advise you to use the bid bots in such a way that you have the best benefit from an economic perspective. In your case that ask a different approach compared to what I did (because I spend a fraction of what you do). If you like I can think about good strategies for using bid bots with spending big amounts?
You said this "Another thing I don't like on the bots is that it takes away about 1/3 of all upvotes. That's quite a lot!" and look at the stats:
I assume you mean that my 1/3 seems to be incorrect? Cause the data shows about 1%.
If so, this data shows the actual number of upvotes. It doesn't show the total value of these upvotes. And this value was closer to 30%. I tried to find a post to back this up, but couldn't find it so quickly. Let me come back to you when I find it.
Yea, I thought that. Even if they are 30%, I am ok with that.
Guess you're also okay with me trying to financially benefit from them?
Btw @smartsteem is right now not being used and waiting for any bid. Which means of it stay like this you can send 100 SBD or even 125 SBD and have at least 25% profit.
Of course. Bots can be business only if they are financially viable. Thanks 😀
If you do spot a maze in the net, you should take advantage of it! It is not illegal to perform this!
So, go ahead and enrich-en yourself :)
I always thought the bots were " stuck " or not functioning properly when I seen those numbers. Thanks for the clarification.
I am about even using bots. Even a small bid of 30 cents is better then having your post sit with next to no rewards shown. When someone sees a post with no rewards attached to it they are more likely to skip over it.
That is what I also used to think, broken because nothing was happening. But it can be both: broken or not being used.
So you should always be careful.
too bad
What precisely is to bad?
I understand very little about these bots, do you say that if I use them to vote for me, I get a profit? Is this so always?
I don't have any reliable data to answer your question. But I think most people have a small loss or small profit.
In this case no one send any bid to the bots. If you do it then you get the maximum profit. Maximum since most bots have a maximum ROI (return on investment). But in that case you can at least be almost certain that you profit from it.
But do note that it is quite complex. So if you really want to use the bots and buy upvotes, I suggest to investigate how things work. That might take a while and you need to do a lot of reading.
thanks for your answer. I will study the bots.
Also try to search for dust threshold.
I'm afraid of you really want to understand Steemit fully, it will take quite some reading. But I think it's worth it.
Did you already check the welcome and FAQ section?
I read it twice, every time I understand a little more about steemit, all this of cryptomonedas and blockchains is new for me. but I even start to enjoy steemit as a social network.
I believe the social aspect is better then the financial rewards.
Of you like investigations and an engagement competition, you should check @abh12345 account. The competition called curation league is held every Sunday. It also has lots of people to help.
This is a nice post, informative, and at the same time I am missing something. You provide a lot of detail, but I don't get it 100%
Should start by saying I am not using bots, apart from @tipu to increase payout for one of my contests.
What do the numbers mean exactly? You say you tried it for @rocky1, but which one is that? How do you decide which one to use? How do you know what kind of upvote you can expect?
Not even sure I will ever use a bot, but I'd like to understand it a little better. Your post helped, but I am not 100% there yet.
Poeh, this is a simple question. But the answer is very complex. I think we need to write a few comments like a Q&A to fully get the bid bot concept.
I use steembottracker.com. You can estimate the value of the upvote you buy there. But it's quite uncertain as this value can change until the last second before the bot actually votes.
I chose @rocky1 because it upvotes as of 0 minutes and has a minimum ROI of 1%. So you basically can't lose any money.
Strange thing is that the maximum ROI is 10%, but I managed to make 39%. I think even taking curation of 25% into account that the ROI is slightly above 25%. But that should be calculated to check.
All I want to say is that you really need to be careful with everything regarding bots.
I understand, you don't have to go through all that trouble right now. As I said, it is unlikely I am going to use voting bots any time soon.
Can you see, when people stumble upon this post, how the image with information has not that much information without anyone telling what the numbers exactly mean?
Also you start mentioning @rocky1, but that term/name doesn't show up in the screen, so it is hard to grasp which one you picked, let alone why.
As stated I am not looking for a 100% successproof manual, there is always a risk. Understanding the use of bots, bit by bit, would be great.
I understand. Now you say my post is pretty difficult written. Especially if you want to understand every detail. And I wrote it for very experienced users.
And to be honest I don't have the intention to write the same story much more clear and detailed. Cause that would only bring a much higher investment in terms of time, without getting financially rewarded for it.
Nevertheless if you or someone else asks me a question I will almost always answer it. Cause that's what I believe in, the social aspect of this platform.
Well not difficult written, but making jumps not everyone will be able to follow. Okay I guess you could call that difficult written. :)
The thing is, you are writing about an interesting subject, and in a perspective different from what others do.
As they say in the movie 'I will be back', when I have a more to the point question. It is nice to have someone around who knows about these things.
Some bots have a max ROI cap btw, so it won't use the full 100% if the round is not full. If you know where to bid, you can benefit assuming prices stay constant.
I also prefer that bid bots didn't exist. That's money allocated to things that don't provide value to the platform. But hey, whatever. It can afford to right now because dumb money is propping it all up. We have things happening that do provide value though, and that's what I'm clinging to. Non-bid-bot behavior props up bid-bot behavior. If bid-botting was the only thing remaining, you can be sure the platform will die. (Well, bid bots do promotion too, but I'm hoping we can replace that aspect with something better.)
What do you think does provide value?
Well personally I think people interacting is value enough. Monetizing good content is kind of blended inside but it's more for getting people engaged. The same kind of things that give other social media value, really. Who knows though.
There's also some vague notion that adoption by spreading the currency to as many distinct people as possible will provide value. Though more likely it's about getting merchants to accept the currency more than anything else.
I'm afraid I don't fully understand you.
You and me interacting now is valuable, but not in financial terms.
Other social media don't pay us. Although they could, from the advertising income they receive. But Steemit does not generate any income.
If spreading Steem to as many people as possible provides financial value, then I would say this is a pyramid game. That ends as soon as no new people buy it.
Not directly but engagement sells. Advertisers pay to reach people. For that to be valuable here you need enough users to reach and a mechanism by which you can reach them. That's what the promotion angle is about.
I was mentioning the crypto currency angle as another possibility which is what most crypto is aiming for. Hard to quantify value of Bitcoin in this vein, isn't it?
Correct, neither do I see any economic value in Bitcoin at this moment.
Having that said, I really hope that I'm wrong or that it will become financially valuable in the future. Cause I do like crypto and the online did going on now.
I hope so too :). For now, I guess enjoy the current value assigned haha...
Hi @crypto-econom1st
Assuming that you're receiving 50% in Steam Power and 50% in SBD then your calculations are correct. I would suggest to take 100% in Steem Power and power down once a week. I think profit would be better.
Bot's are not taking into consideration the fact that you're going to power down and trade STEEM back to SBD with some extra profit.
Your example is not very valid because you only used 3 SBD to pay for bots. Try few more bids and check results. It may be easy to make some small profit with small bids. But it's definetly not as profitable as it used to be once price of STEEM has been higher.
Why not? We've 3 ways of promoting ourselfs (making sure that we're going to end up on trending page and get some extra traffic):
Choice is very easy. People either will use bots or Steemit will turn into ghost town because majority of bloggers will abandon this platform (if bots would be not allowed).
There is no other choice.
Yours
Piotr