Why I'm buying upvotes from a bid bot

in bid-bots •  16 days ago

What are bid bots?

Bid bots are services, that allow you to buy votes. It took me a long time to make up my mind whether that is a good thing or not.

Basically, you send a certain amount of Steem or SBD to one of those bots and attach the url of one of your posts, and in return they will upvote that post of yours.

Of course this only makes sense, if the upvote amount is higher than the one you’re paying. The reason so many bots have a bad reputation is that often that’s not the case and you lose money.

Are they ethical?

I've been torn about the ethics of bid bots for a long time.

I've always viewed Steemit a bit like a business. Our readers and upvoters are our customers (because that's where our income is coming from), so the better content we create and the better and more relationships we maintain here, the more successful we will be. Just like in real life/business.

So when I first heard about bid bots, part of me was like, "Hey, good for them! They found a niche, a demand, and created a solution for it. Great! I may never become their customer, but I can see how some people could be interested in that." Something still felt icky about those bots, though.

At Steemfest in Krakow last November, however, I talked to a few Steemians (who are highly committed to the Steem network), and they told me that particularly the @ocdb bot is a good one. Good as in ethical. It has a guaranteed profit margin, so you know you can't lose.

bamboo-unsplash.jpg

Photo from Unsplash

10 x

So I decided to test it. You can see in my wallet, that I am often sending Steem to @ocdb, and you will also see @ocdb commenting and upvoting my posts. I have done this for almost 4 months now - ever since Steemfest 3.

If you look at what my posts earned before November, compared to now, it will look like I'm making 10 x more. Of course I don't, because I'm paying for this.

But you know who is making 10 times more than before? My upvoters. And that is what finally convinced me to keep on doing this and invest even more in these upvotes from now on. This is actually good for the community and for my relationship with my followers, even though I don't have time to interact and engage as much anymore as in the past.

The math

I have about 50 people upvoting my posts on average. My posts make about $1.5 - $2 organically. A $2 post will pay out $1.50 to me, the author (75%) and distribute the other $0.50 (25%) amongst the upvoters. So that would be $0.01 per upvoter on average (it depends on many factors, though, how much each upvoter gets).

Now, if I invest in a bid bot and buy an upvote that results in this same post earning $20 instead of only $2, then I have ten folded the earnings for my upvoters. Not for myself, because I paid for it, but for everyone else. Because now the amount that gets paid out amongst them is $5 instead of just $0.50. My own return is much less, because I may have to pay $18 in order to get a $20 upvote. So my profit is very little, but it’s still a profit.

Plus, it helps me increase my Steempower ten times faster than through organic earnings. I believe I earned more in the last 4 months (or just as much) as I earned in the 1.5 years before that.

You can see a little bit of discussion on this here in this post by @celestal.

If you're still new here - you do need to accumulate quite a bit of Steem or SBD’s first, before you have enough money to buy votes from the @ocdb bot, but this way you’ll have enough time to think about whether you find these bots ethical or not.

I can’t say much about all the others; I am only using the @ocdb bot, because it has been endorsed by Steemians I respect and trust.

To me it is an investment in the Steem platform, because

a) instead of cashing out, I am reinvesting my Steem, which is good for the network.
b) the largest part is paid out in Steempower, which increases my voting power and also provides stability to the Steem price (since I can’t just withdraw and sell it all - it takes 13 weeks).
c) as mentioned above - it allows my upvoters to earn more and so increases their Steempower, too, which again, is good for the platform.

This a win-win-win situation, where all parties involved benefit.

The only tiny disadvantage I see, is that my reputation got quite inflated by using this bot. I never really looked into what actually increases the reputation, but it's now very clear to me, that high $$ upvotes have a heavy influence on it. But if all of those upvotes have been bought, then that reputation score is actually a lie.

What's your opinion on bid bots?

For now I will continue, and I'm planning to even raise the stakes a bit. We're still in a bear market, and I want to make the most use of that, by accumulating as much Steem as possible for my upvoters and myself.

I have no plans of cashing out anytime soon, unless I find myself in a situation where I really need it. For now, I'm just saving up for Steemfest 4, which is always the best use case for spending Steem, right? :)

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The other option is to invest everything in your own organic steem power, then self vote once your "regulars" have dropped by.

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True. I still often have that self-vote on automatically the moment I post, which is not ideal.

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Yeah, at earliest, it should be at 15 minutes.

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it is good to invest in bid bots when the price shoots up a lot... it brings up the STU price sometimes you come out with a big profit

Thanks for this information. I haven't used bidbots since my very early days on Steem as I thought they were looked down upon be many Steemians.
However your article has made me have a re-look at this issue.

How does one get on the whitelist for @ocdb? I'm on the whitelist for Minnowbooster but haven't used it for ages.

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You know, all I did was send a bid there and it worked. Maybe they check you out and white list you (or not) the first time you use the bot. Not sure. But you’ll get your money back if anything is not in order.
There were a couple of times when I sent a bid before the 24 hours were up (you can use the bot only once a day) and the money was returned immediately.

Posted using Partiko iOS

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People who have been curated by @ocd are added to the whitelist. 2 months ago there was also a round where people could manually suggest someone to be added to the whitelist, might be too late to comment on that, but there should be further chances in the future, so following @ocd and @acidyo might be a good idea.

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How does one get on the whitelist for @ocdb?

No such process, so not for me, but maybe if you know some top people there you can maybe join the system.

Not really win-win-win. You’re removing Steem from the rewards pool that otherwise would have gone to everyone else.

I prefer to avoid bid bots personally despite testing them out briefly.

And the biggest winner is the bot owner. You’re giving them Steem for a vote which costs them nothing. They then also get a stake in the curation rewards from your post. It’s not an equal exchange

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Tbh that reward pool thing is still something on the back of my mind, which I haven't fully understood yet, so thanks for mentioning that.

In regards for the biggest winner being the bot owner - on one hand I don't really mind, because they are providing a service that increases the earnings for all of us (OK by "all" I mean the bidders and the upvoters of their posts). It's a business. A business should be profitable, and there's a service being exchanged. I am absolutely not against doing business on the Steem blockchain.

On the other hand, it says the ocdb bot is a non-profit bot, which suggests to me that the owner invests the revenue back into the bot, for the benefit of the bidders and their upvoters.

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We take no cut with ocdb at all. The argument that you are getting steem you weren't supposed to get, well, the delegators would've instead delegated to a normal bid bot and gotten their ROI that way instead while enriching the owners for doing pretty much nothing. This way a whitelist of people get the 10% profit instead and maybe some day they'll start curating and using it for something better. Easy steem earned usually means it easily ends on the exchanges so I'd rather help distribution which is important for our currency.

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can you add me to the list please. want to give it a go

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It’s a bit of a mine field really. I’d much rather see no bots at all. The ocdb bot is probably the least harmful of them all. But it still doesn’t detract from the fact that you’re removing Steem from the reward pool that wasn’t yours to begin with.

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Agree

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Thanks for sharing your experience! As someone that has been hesitant as well, I have heard so much about this bot that I am looking at delegating to it as it also provides great benefits for thos who do so as well. I am not on the whitelist but work everyday to eventually get there and try out the bot as it could help promote my posts on the blockchain. Look forward to its continued development!

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I actually delegated to it as well today. I didn’t even know it was possible, but all the comments and questions here under this post made me check it out more.

I've just stumbled across this, after seeing a few people using it, and thanks to a recent post by @celestal.

I've paid for a couple of upvotes, and the return seems to be around an insane 50% - A 30 steem payment = $20.24 upvote (30 steem = $13.50)

I know I don't get all of that back personally, but even so that's a good return.

I've been posting through steempress for several months, and getting a nice upvote from them, but they take a 15% cut.....

@ocdb seems a lot better. I'm actually just digging around to read people's posts about it!

Oh and everyone knows the reputation score is a joke, so don't worry about that!

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Celestal’s post actually inspired this one! :)

Good to know that nobody cares about the reputation :) It wish it would be removed, because for a while it looked like it’s my age 😄😄

About inflated reputation:
I think it is not a lie, but your Total Upvote Volume Indicator (TUVI) if everybody knows the background of gaining higher number then I think it is not a real problem. Why worries? :).

  • Noobies will think: Wow! Look at this account with large number after! She really knows where her towel is. Respect."
  • People who know how it grows will think: "Wow, acount is 2 yrs old and has (67 - or whatever) that person really knows how things really work on Steem Blockchain. Respect.
  • Haters will think: "We hate! But we secretly admire."
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She really knows where her towel is. Respect."

LOL!

(Problem is, most people don't know how reputation is earned - I didn't after 2 years, here, because I never really bothered to check it out :))

Why is @ocdb good one? What is ROI? Why this one is ethical?
Check my article about @qurator and his superb @qustodian BOT with 235% upvote of your investment. Other side is that he is quite weak, about $ 0,11 value maximum.
Good thing is to summon a bidbot after 1 or 2 days after your post is launched, that the bot gets less curation reward and the upvoters (readers who upvote in 15 minute or so) will get even more curation reward.

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Check the post of celestal I linked to in regards to you Why questions.

Yes, very important to postpone the bit upvote until after most people have upvoted. Otherwise it defeats the purpose.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Bid Bots are good when they give a food handsome return more than that of investment. I heard of ocdb a lot and did invested a bit as well to see how it gives 10 X for my 5 Steem they upvoted me with 2.5 ...and I lost in it calculation....

Last four month I do notice a sharp increase in my S too, i thought it was due to low Steem prices which resulted in a different rewards calculation ..where even 0.200 reward on your posts gives you ...0.400 Steem and equal amount of SP...the growth was very evident ......I wish if could anyone help me understand the ocdb not calculation..of 10xreturn...I too get into the investment mode.👌

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Hi @steemflow - it will not give you 10x for your 5 Steem. The 10x I mention above is an example calculation that applies for your upvoters, not for you. I tried to make that really clear above, but maybe I didn’t succeed :)

In the post I linked to, by @celestal, he says the return is 110% net. So to me that means, if you send 10 Steem, you’re gonna get an 11 Steem upvote (after the curation rewards, so really net). Basically you’re earning 10%.

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I dont like because they create non organic Traffic. So many posts are in trending without real Interaction. We need some geniune interaction for growth. At @penguinpablo you can see that still massive amounts of steem get dumped ok exchanges.

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Valid point. But doesn’t that mean the trending ranking should be differently calculated? More weighted to the amount of comments, re-steems, engagement?
I never look at the trending page or any of the others - I never understood their purpose.

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i look on it sometimes but i also check trending #deutsch

Thanks for sharing this @connecteconomy.

I didn't quite understand the example. If you pay $18 to get a $20 upvote - does that not mean you receive a payout from Steemit of $15?? ie. 75% of the $20

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Yes. :) I should have thought this example through more 😆 I just wanted to highlight that I’m not making 10x on my side.

Your absolutely right. For a $20 post, my part would be $15. If I had paid $18 for that, it would be unprofitable for me. And that’s exactly what the ocdb bot promises, won’t happen. My net reward (the $15) will be higher than what I paid for.

In fact, there were a couple of times when - for some reason - it was unprofitable, but @acidyo (who runs the bot) spotted it and upvoted my (and other bidders) posts manually, in order to make up for the difference.

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Okay, I see, thanks for clarifying.
Lots to learn with this!

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I'm still learning every day! :)

Thank you for this post. I have some questions about bid bots. After your article I decide to use bid bots too. Of course at first I have to gain more steem.

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You are doing good job for the steem community, keep it up

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Thank you! :)

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@acidyo How does one get on the whitelist for @ocdb? Can you endorse me to be ocdb whitelist, please..

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I think you just send a bid there. That’s what I did. If for some reason they won’t accept you, you’ll get your money back.

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how do i do that? where do i send a bid to?

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You just go to your wallet and click on transfer either next to your Steem or sbd, depending on what you want to send (minimum is 5SBD or 5 Steem). And in the memo you put the url of the post you want to have upvoted. You can only do this once a day.
Check my wallet, to see it.

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Bid is invalid - Only posts by whitelisted authors are accepted by this bot.

oh well. not too fussed

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Everyone who has been curated by @ocd is added to the list. There might also come possibilities where people can be suggested to be added there, so following @ocd and @acidyo (who runs the bot) might be a good idea to not miss any updates.

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I'm an @ocdb white-listed content creator, and happy that the "Non Profit" bot service is available for use should I desire to do so.

I've been around on Steemit long enough now to have heard all the pro and con arguments of which I mostly followed the "negative results for the community" crowd; I've changed my viewpoint to a more 'positive' one, and without remorse.

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Thanks for weighing in, @angryman!

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Yer Velcome :~)

You pretty much have to use them lol to gain any traction here. People here are really split on them but honestly I feel like they should be allowed. This is crypto and decentralized so we should say no line and open the community then decides.

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I believe it's already accepted by the majority for as long you use it responsibly. And as you said, instead of cashing-out it will be reinvested as SP, which is good for Steem in the long run. Thanks for the info.

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There is no whitelisting for @ocdb, thus it might be 'good' for those who attended steemfest in Krakow, but not so much for an average steemian.

Thanks for sharing your success story and congratulations on ability to participate in that project!

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Hm, I can’t imagine that. It should be available for everyone equally, at least for a certain set of parameters, but being a Steemfest attendee shouldn’t be one of them.

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Apparently opening the whietelist is planned for the future. Maybe next month, maybe next year, no timeline given.

Notice, that while you have focused on buying the upvotes, real money in operating the bot is in delegating. 95% or so newly created STEEM/SP/SBD goes to delegators. Negative side of this is further accumulation of wealth by already wealthy. But this is how money works. Nothing new.

On the plus side anybody can delegate to the bot, even though full advantage can be taken by only some members of the community.

I´ve used bid bots when the price was going up last year and it was crazy profitable, but then the price started coming down almost daily and the post rewards were going down like crazy, so I stopped for some months, and now every once in a while I use bid bots, for some of the reasons you mention, especially because it not only allows me to profit but also my dear followers/upvoters.

You got a 9.42% upvote from @ocdb courtesy of @connecteconomy! :)

@ocdb is a non-profit bidbot for whitelisted Steemians, current max bid is 60 SBD and the equivalent amount in STEEM.
Check our website https://thegoodwhales.io/ for the whitelist, queue and delegation info. Join our Discord channel for more information.

If you like what @ocd does, consider voting for ocd-witness through SteemConnect or on the Steemit Witnesses page. :)

Well, $5 is not paid out to your native upvoters. The majority of it is paid as a curation reward back to the largest voter, ocdb, but still some more goes to them than otherwise as long as they voted before ocdb.

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