RE: What is the difference between personal and private property?
In the capitalist system, you voluntarily entre into a contract in which you exchange a certain amount of labour for a certain amount of money... You will apply that labour to the capitalists means of production which he bought with is own money (which in the end, maybe decades or centuries ago, was made by work).
Everybody is free to go and buyhis own means of production and becoming self-employed.
Taking the means of production and putting them in the hands of government is theft, and will eventually not solve anything. Watch Venezuela for the results of such a policy.
Throughout the ages wage labour has existed, and throughout the ages, selfemployment has existed. Because of the ever larger capital investments which are required to build modern products, wage labour is becoming more and more important.
Don't like where this is going? Because the capitalists will own everything? That's the beauty of the sysem. Everybody is a capitalist, and everybody has a stake In iy. Whether it be your pension fund, or your private savings, you are undoubtedly invested in companies, you undoubtedly directdly or indirectly own means of production which others work on, while you work on means of production which are owned by others.
that was retarded no government in communism im not even going to read past that
WHy not try explaining? If you are talking about communism, I think of the Sovjet Union, Notrh Korea, Vietnam, CUba, etc,...
and without a doubt if governed correctly, there could be communist countries which would far more succesfull than these
I really do not see how you will be able to sustain communism in a governmentless anarchistic society,... since you will need people to voluntarily give up everything they produce above the average per capita production of the community.
This they will never do. They will gladly help neighbours, family, friends, but without government coercion, I do not believe that a communist society can exist.
So could you please explain to me how you would see such a system being maintained?
Well said @walkerlv -- I'm still waiting for some AnCom to explain to me how their ideal society is ever achieved without coercion. @loganarchy -- Wow, amazingly succinct yet detailed justification for capitalism via action axiom. I just got an education. Thank you.
go look up the definition communism has no state stopped reading after nk look up the definition of state capitlism
the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money,[3][4] and the state.
(From Wikipedia)
Yet I do not believe that you can achieve this without government coercion. I believe that capitalism is the natural order of things. I do not oppose capitalism, but I do not believe that without a government you could transition to a communist society.
Why is capitalism the natural order of things?
also if you want the natural order of things go to anarcho primitism
Anarcho Primitivism sets arbitrary boundaries on what is primitive. Capitalism is the natural order because of the action axiom.
All individuals engage in purposeful behavior towards the fulfillment of desired ends by economizing and applying the scarce means in their control towards those ends. Also, all individuals vary in preferences. This is a synthetic a priori proposition.
"[T]he proposition that humans act ... fulfills the requirements precisely for a true synthetic a priori proposition. It cannot be denied that this proposition is true, since the denial would have to be categorized as an action — and so the truth of the statement literally cannot be undone."
https://mises.org/library/doubt-action-axiom-try-disprove-it
Along with this, individuals naturally seek to maximize value by using the least amount of resources to accomplish the maximum amount of ends. This naturally means that we use technology as a means to maximizing a scarce resource like labor and time. So if AnPrims want to condemn agriculture, they must likewise condemn even stone age technology such as a sharpened stick used for hunting.
Both of these things are technologies that help economic actors maximize value and therefore an AnPrims arbitary standards of what is "natural" and "unatural" is arbitrary and therefore unnatural itself.
These economic principles are what allow prices to occur on the market as well which helps economic actors figure out what the most productive lines of production are.
The hardest thing in an economy is figuring out what to produce and how. Take building a railroad. The price mechanism on the market makes it so that actors can see that steel is cheaper than say platinum or gold for railroad ties. This is because the prices of gold and platinum have been bid up by other lines of production that need it more urgently. Without this pricing mechanism, communal central planning cannot figure out accurately what lines of production are most efficient for various resources. Therefore, anything other than capitalism is doomed to fail miserably on a grand economic scale.
Anarcho-Primitivism and collectivist anarchic ideas who are against private property ignore the fundamental idea that all economic action is human action.
I am not Marxist i am anarchist communist (hit reply limit below)
funny, you just said my post was retarded too. This is how you represent communism, by calling capitalism retarded and flagging posts? Are you 12? I'm not trying to insult you but I just want to know if you are 12 so I can take it easy on you if you are.