Thanks for the detailed reply.

On family socialism (though I prefer to call it communism) I agree, and came across this most obviously in David Graeber's Debt: The First 5000 Years in which he argues that markets arose from slavery, cannot exist without the state, and our idea of barter is as mythological as the Garden of Eden. I can't say I agree with everything (though I'm not well educated in anthropology, economics and politics enough to refute it all myself) but I found it reasonable that the family is communistic and that it can and does scale up to the small community level. In fact gift giving, which is really just insuring you are in an unquantifiable debt to everyone around you, is the glue of communities in this style. So you jumped from family to city, and while I think it doesn't scale to a city, it does to a small community I think, if it is the style, and given that there is peace, freedom, etc.

Thanks for the input on overpopulation, but even so I can't dismiss the idea that without freedom of travel in the world the kind of "stablization" the UN projects will be extremely painful in some areas of the world. When in large groups we are fiercely territorial so I don't think this was ever easy but the systematic exploitation of certain areas coupled with restricting of peoples' ability to relocate out of exploitation has got to be one of the greatest sources of suffering it the world and as we approach resource limit it can only get worse. But I should do more reading on this.

I think Haidt's key point there is compatible with Peterson, that we are not all alike and we need the variation between people. That means that what one person, or one type of person thinks is best for everyone is not going to be that, libertarians included. They've both said that we need leftie and rightie type ideas, and the freedom for the contest of ideas to find something workable. Haidt has come out explicitly as a centrist, but I doubt Peterson would, just cuz.

One thing I have to disagree with you strongly on is that religion is required for discipline. I know you said you arrived at this from anecdotal evidence, but I don't think there's actual evidence to support that. Culture is apart from religion, and it's something we just cannot do without. Anthropologist Clifford Geertz put it as "Without men, no culture, certainly; but equally, and more significantly, without culture, no men." If we do not hold cleanliness in high regard, we will not clean our rooms. So while I think cultural ideas are associated with religion, they are not dependent on them, i.e. you don't need to believe in God to clean your room :D

Thanks, followed in case you decide to write about your Jeffersonian Utopia after you finish reading Nozick ;P