@laconicflow The basic difference we have is that you see society and state as the same thing and we view them as different and ultimately at odds. Participation in the state does not mean you are trying to improve society. It just means you are participating in the state and at some level empowering it. By not participating in the state, we just acknowledge that there are better ways to influence the society that don't involve supporting politicians and aggressive force by the state monopoly.
That's actually not my point. My point is that I find it paradoxical when people live in a society that enables them to say the society is an utter and total piece of shit, to the point where they'd prefer not to participate in its evolution even as they are surrounded by societies where the right to complain or bitch or criticize does not exist. I'm not saying the nation state will always be necisary, but while I think it is necisary I feel totally comfortable trying to change it for the better. I can only conclude that people who avoid participation think change within a state is impossible or entirely insignificant even as that change positively affects people around them. You might be glad not voting, but all the groups enfranchised since our nations founding generally see their enfranchisement as a positive, and I don't think this makes them zombies by default. I don't know about you, but I try and get into conversations with people I'm sure I'll disagree with, otherwise its a circlejerk.
@laconicflow The basic difference we have is that you see society and state as the same thing and we view them as different and ultimately at odds. Participation in the state does not mean you are trying to improve society. It just means you are participating in the state and at some level empowering it. By not participating in the state, we just acknowledge that there are better ways to influence the society that don't involve supporting politicians and aggressive force by the state monopoly.
That's actually not my point. My point is that I find it paradoxical when people live in a society that enables them to say the society is an utter and total piece of shit, to the point where they'd prefer not to participate in its evolution even as they are surrounded by societies where the right to complain or bitch or criticize does not exist. I'm not saying the nation state will always be necisary, but while I think it is necisary I feel totally comfortable trying to change it for the better. I can only conclude that people who avoid participation think change within a state is impossible or entirely insignificant even as that change positively affects people around them. You might be glad not voting, but all the groups enfranchised since our nations founding generally see their enfranchisement as a positive, and I don't think this makes them zombies by default. I don't know about you, but I try and get into conversations with people I'm sure I'll disagree with, otherwise its a circlejerk.