RE: a system engineer’s perspective: what system is better than capitalist democracy?
"since capitalism is an approach that lends itself to empire building and the conglomeration of power structures..."
<--only is as much as human behavior lends itself to empire building. "Capitalism" just means people have the right to own property, which includes themselves and their own output. You can be as uninterested in empire building or wealth accumulation in a capitalist world as you could be in one where other people control you and strip you of the right to own your own output; that's up to you. I prefer having choice and am offended when others tell me what i should value and how much of my life i get to keep.
Whatever it's called, peaceful people ought to have every right to be left alone, associate with whomever, say whatever, do whatever, and keep whatever they earn. In terms of "isms" that's probably much closer to "capitalism" than any other, but it's really just called freedom.
It'd be more helpful if people stopped talking in terms of "isms" and spoke plainly. It's people have freedom, or we think some pattern of controls optimizes some objective function which they may or may not share, but we'll force it on them anyway. I prefer not to think of human society in engineering terms, since we're not machines or cattle and we're all different.
thanks for commenting here. human behaviour is, to me, potentially close to being infinite and in no way inherently is aligned towards empire building. intent to build empires requires some kind of motivation to do so and generally, a balanced individual has no such motivation. however, in a society where those who have the most money can (and do) live like kings with servants, while those with no money live with nothing - there is massive motivation to 'stay on top' and massive fear of losing everything. that is the point here. capitalism facilitates huge disparity and keeps that imbalance as a status quo. this is what i am pointing to here (as have countless others).
capitalism is not as simple as you have made out and i am wondering if you actually read what i wrote at all.
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE! Many who have studied the impact of what might be best termed NeoCorporatist Omniscience understand the impact of the raping of the planet. We've promulgated the myth of materialism globally on quest to pimp what remains the natural resources of the planet and its potable water supplies to the highest, (actually very low) price while distroying environment in favor of personal agenda. Some, have engaged themselves in minimalist living despite wealth and chosen to vie in favor of having least impact on the planet and its atmosphere. They recognize biodiversity essential the survival blessings bestowed. Always give 2/3 > you take from mother earth This has nothing to do with $ but rather with morality and ethics. That is unless you're, "that" person. LOLs, ura-soul rules!
well said! it take an awareness of what is NEEDED for balance to prevail and then to live accordingly before we can get fully clear of the lenses of the dominator paradigm and really find out what is important via direct experience. <3
<3 ✌.|•͡˘‿•͡˘|.✌ ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Pragmatism/Common Sense Is Not Necessarily Included With Degrees In Business, Marketing Management & The Like. NoMore2PartySystem! There is no "balance" in duopoly. A pendulum must swing. The prohibition of it doing so assures the status quo. One Party is in fact the other. We must allow for correction. Down Ballot Voting must be made law and all should be required to vote with choice affirmation confirmation made at each chosen candidate's headquarters/site. Simply no reason or reasoning in any of this perversion of truth for the money grubbers we've taught the world to be... It wreaks of desperation and fear of mortality.
Such hierarchies are part of humanity and form under any political framework. Societies where some have the power to strip others of property and compel them to do, or not to do, things just means the power hierarchy is in the political class and not those who have accumulated wealth by serving customers.
And yes, human behavior and innovative spirit is infinite.
all hierarchy is, by definition, imbalanced. so when you say that hierarchy is effectively inevitable, you are saying that balance is impossible. that is untrue.
" Societies where some have the power to strip others of property and compel them to do, or not to do, things just means the power hierarchy is in the political class and not those who have accumulated wealth by serving customers."
-> i am not advocating for the power to give and take 'things' from people. if anything i am advocating for enlightenment of the form that recognises the spiritual truth of life on earth, such that we no longer accept that 'those whose ancestors once raped and pillaged the rest of the world enough to claim and own most of it' are able to continue artificially in the power position. if those who 'have it all', don't agree to co-create in a balanced way - then they will eventually meet a reflection of their denial of reality. i would rather that THEY meet their reflection than see a continuation of the disparity we see now, where a large percentage of humans suffer constantly and do not have what they need to live, often due to no fault of their own.
This is an interesting discussion and definitely makes you think :)
"all hierarchy is, by definition, imbalanced. so when you say that hierarchy is effectively inevitable, you are saying that balance is impossible."
#1 there's no such definition of hierarchy. Plenty of hierarchies can be balanced.
#2 Even the concept of "balanced" is odd in human relations; a process can be balanced over some range, but have boundary conditions after which it breaks. Nonetheless, human relations, desires, and environmental inputs constantly change, so i wouldn't declare some equilibrium to be an objective to maintain for the sake of it.
Great you're not advocating for power to violently change human relations! We should always advocate for peace and freedom.
i am glad you are injoying the flow!
"there's no such definition of hierarchy. Plenty of hierarchies can be balanced."
-> well, we are all free to create our own definitions in every moment - so unless you are mind reading every human, you are not in a position to know the sum total of all definitions currently being used. however, if we stick to 'the usual' dictionary definitions, we have something like this:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hierarchy
all of the definitions (removing the esoteric definition relating to angels) refer to status, authority, rank, economic level and so on - in one way or another. if everyone is considered and treated equally/fairly (without being hindered artificially) then there is no need or purpose in defining a hierarchy. hierarchy inherently performs as a means of control in one sense or another, where the 'higher ups' exercise control of some form over the 'lower downs'. if you can name what is a balanced hierarchy, in your mind - then i am fairly sure i can find a way to show that it isn't actually balanced.
" Even the concept of "balanced" is odd in human relations; a process can be balanced over some range, but have boundary conditions after which it breaks. Nonetheless, human relations, desires, and environmental inputs constantly change, so i wouldn't declare some equilibrium to be an objective to maintain for the sake of it."
yes, we constantly change. none the less, when some aspect of human interactions exceeds a personal limit and / or some aspect of the human is overpowered/denied, then that is imbalance. as an example - two people may be in a forest with some food bearing trees around and they both have enough. if one then decides to hoard all the food and not let the other have any, then there is imbalance (which started in the heart of the one deciding to hoard). this will result in feelings that are off balance, a tension and potentially a conflict. the balance points always need to be found for us to thrive and even survive and that you question the necessity of this on a planet that is almost so out of balance that none of us may survive is only a testament to how far away many humans are in their thinking from heading towards peace and contentment.