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RE: Fire in the hole!! - Anarcho Capitalism / Communism - debate/discussion Part 2 - after many comments

in #anarchy8 years ago

Do you realize one thing? Based upon your answers that basically come down to take what you need, if there is not enough produce more.

This would work in a primitive society with primitive needs as pretty much anyone could be taught all the necessary steps necessary to produce goods. Yet as you leave the primitive world and start going into objects that are produced from many many different components and the impossibility of any one person knowing how to build all of those components, knowing how many are needed, etc. This simplistic take what you need, if there are not enough doesn't work.

First it presumes there are piles of what you need sitting somewhere, or the flip side that there are no piles and you produce them as you need them. One way to fight the unpredictability would be when you need something, you could make 10 of them (picking the number just for an example). This theoretically leaves 9 extra. Producing those 10 likely used resources. Now it is likely this would produce another race condition where something else that needed those resources may need them, but they are no longer there because they are tied up in the 9 extra products sitting there. This is easy to contemplate with simple object, but take a quick scan around the room you are sitting in. Consider everything in there, the raw resources came from somewhere, and likely went through several layers of process, numerous stages of transportation, and acquisition of many different components, and each of those components came from similar production chains, and as you contemplate it gets huge. That is just in your one room.

The market, currency, and supply and demand address this issue without needing to try to have humans GUESS or even MATHEMATICALLY attempt to predict what is going to be needed, when, and where and insuring those things happen. In a market there is supply and demand and there are race conditions. Those race considerations are typically (though not always - depends upon the source) resolved by price. Other considerations come into play too. You might want 5 WIDGIT42s now and will pay me 10 currency. I have a regular customer who buys 1 WIDGIT42 per month at 9 currency. Do I go for the quick 50 currency, or is it more beneficial to stick with my 9 per month and end up with 108 currency per year? Can I come to a compromise and offer the guy that wants 5 only 4, if he will not agree to that is there a way I can produce 6. This all is solved at the site, not in some room where someone is mathematically calculating needs. Furthermore, if a disaster happens and cuts off access to a resource, in the market the person needing the resource can work on solving the problems with that part of the chain, it does not again need to go back to some guy doing math in a room who rearranges the flow of things.

You see you can say things that emotionally FEEL good, and yes it does FEEL great the idea that everyone is treated equal, but HOW that is accomplished in the big scheme of things is just as important as the small scheme of things. I do think the ideas you propose could work in small primitive societies, yet as you start to leave that it becomes based more on the fact someone with skills MIGHT train someone else in his skills because it is for the GOOD of all.

This again assumes all people have such motivations. It is NOT just how society and culture introduce these things. As I stated before you can see these same property behaviors occurring in animals and pretty much any other species. You could perhaps point out bee hives, or ant colonies as where this is not the case. At least as long as no other ant colony encroaches upon them.

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But people actually communicate and form associations to work towards larger goals (such as producing complex goods with many components). We even have technology today to communicate at ~the speed of light. You don't actually have to walk to some huge stockpile and put/remove items. There's no guy doing math in some room.
The free market requires inventories and communication. Does that mean you always walk to a place called 'the market' and report your needs/surplus to some guy doing calculations in a room?

When you look around you find a lot of stuff that was advertised to you as some kind of golden ticket to your happiness but you don't actually need them. And even the things you need sit idle and unused in the vast majority of the time. So I would argue that this fixation on production for profit and the resulting consumerism is actually an artifact of capitalism.

As I stated before you can see these same property behaviors occurring in animals and pretty much any other species.

You can also see groups of animals hunting together and sharing the prey. But then again, you can also see them eat their own offsprings and leave the weak/injured/old to die.
And most animal species I know of are not particularly aware of the larger scale of things, they are incapable of comprehending anything beyond their local environment and cooperating over large distances. I think you get the point.

Quick response... all the time I have at the moment.

You can also see groups of animals hunting together and sharing the prey. But then again, you can also see them eat their own offsprings and leave the weak/injured/old to die. And most animal species I know of are not particularly aware of the larger scale of things, they are incapable of comprehending anything beyond their local environment and cooperating over large distances. I think you get the point.

I believe your point was basically. "Apples and Oranges" Am I correct?

In short, yes.

I'd also like to add to my previous comment that what you brought up here really seems to be about scarcity (aside from logistics, but i've already addressed that).
I believe scarcity manifests itself in the free market as 'extremely high price / unavailable' and in anarcho-communism as 'running low / unavailable'. But the meaning is kind of the same: to get such objects, more effort and time must to be invested.

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