Of Wrongs and Rights
I got into a discussion with @fishyculture about rights. You can read it here if you like.
Most do not understand what a "right" is. They think it can be bestowed or taken away, and if either of those conditions are true then we are talking about a privilege not a right.
Based on @fishyculture’s above paragraph, I decided to look up exactly what a right is.
An abstract idea of that which is due to a person or governmental body by law or tradition or nature. "they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"; "Certain rights can never be granted to the government but must be kept in the hands of the people"; "a right is not something that somebody gives you; it is something that nobody can take away"
Word Web dictionary
@fishyculture’s definition is correct according to the dictionary, but is this in fact true?
In my mind this is a definition of something that simply does not exist.
The American constitution contains a “Bill of Rights.”
The Canadian constitution contains a “Charter of Rights and Freedoms.”
The United Nations has the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights.”
When you are arrested in the US you are read your “Miranda Rights.”
There are supposed God given rights and natural rights as well.
The first three documents define those rights that government allows and are thus privileges. The fourth is simply being informed that the government allows you certain privileges. And while it’s nice to think that some creator put you here on Earth and that by simply existing you cannot be denied certain survival conditions, the fact is that to survive you must act on your own behalf and counter any person or institution who would deny you the things you need.
Rights therefore are a legal construct and not something that is inherent. In other words, the idea of rights is a meme, an idea used to control human behavior. It’s not something concrete but something abstract and abstract things only exist inside the human head.
Rights are like freedom. Nobody can give you freedom. Freedom is fought for and exercised. Either you are free or you are not. You may grant someone else a right, that is, a priviledge, but you must constantly exercise what you consider to be your rights or you simply have none.
"a right is not something that somebody gives you; it is something that nobody can take away"
example from Word Web
What rights do you have that cannot be taken away? I can’t think of any. If you can, then please comment. (outside of any artificial legal contruct).
This social control meme has been around for quite some time. Power structures use it to lend themselves validity, to divide and conquer and to rally people to war.
I find it quite interesting that the same so-called conservatives who complain about the liberal’s sense of “entitlement” also complain at great length about the loss of rights. Isn’t a right a sense of entitlement? Can't you hear them screeming, "You can't do this. I have rights!"
I’m going to stop the political aspect of this discussion right here and will not address any so-called right/left infighting. I’m an anarchist. Vote for me and you’ll never have to vote again. I do what is in my own best interest according to my strict self-imposed morality and I defend myself whenever threatened or run away to fight another day if that battle cannot be won. We are divided and “divided we fall” unless we are clandestine in our dissent. I harbor no delusions that I am not on my own.
In the end we have no rights outside of the privileges granted via oppressive government and it’s laws. Part of the awakening process is to realize that nobody, not even God or Nature bestows upon you the right to anything. Only then can you free your mind of the cobwebs this meme—this bit of social programming—creates.
Getting what you need to survive and protecting yourself from the ignorant, the immoral, the avaricious and the psychopathic is your own responsibility and no one else’s. Expecting it to be done for you is impotent, foolish and immature and is exactly where the power structure wants you to be.
I have come to believe this too. The power structure wants you to be an ignorant lemming and follow until you fall off the cliff. It is easier to lead sheep than try to let them think for themselves. Thinkers ask questions.
Yup. In any political purge, intellectuals are always the first to be rounded up and eliminated. Sadly, most people cannot think for themselves either because of genetic deficit or because of early and thorough programming in day prison. Get rid of the thinkers and it's a lot easier to regain control of the Farm and start milking again.
I, as you know, deeply respect you, and your thoughtful considerations.
I must disagree with you here.
While various compacts and documents claim to impart rights, limit them, or discuss them variously, all of those documents are flawed.
You do have rights. You have the right to self determination. You have the right to various things, such as self defense. You may not have the power to protect and exercise those rights, but that doesn't make them go away.
Despite the claim that rights cannot be taken away, and your assumption this means they are something you can always undertake, this is a false assumption. No one can take away your right to life, but they can kill you. They have violated just law to do it.
Therefore, redefine rights to be things that cannot be justly taken away, and you will have a better idea of what they are. That being said, I reckon it really doesn't matter, as your stated course of action, to acquire what you need to live and proceed therefrom, effectively undertakes exercising your rights, whether others agree with you or not.
That's your right. =p
You're my go-to word guy and I admire your precision with that regard. For me, there are concepts that I find difficult to comprehend. I therefore dissect them as best I can to reveal their true meaning (true to me, at least.)
At the risk of hair-splitting I'd like to add another 3 cents to this post.
Here's where my confusion comes in. The term "just" means ethical, moral, appropriate, etc. It is a social term and in your short sentence above is used within the realm of the law. I agree with you that legally we do (should?) have rights. But here we are dealing with culture and social interaction. Law changes and is not immutable. Rights in this regard come and go.
Since you're a biologist, perhaps this might clear up my point.
Biology concerns the living aspect of the planet Earth. It's laws and ways are ancient, real and unchanging in the sense that the "rules" of the game of life are set and discoverable.
The World is the abstract overlay of culture and concerns the interaction of people within a society. The rules governing this interaction are abstract and change over time.
The Earth does not guarantee a right to live. You live by your own volition. The World says you have a right to live and that no person can "justly" deny you that right. To me, both of these statements are true. (Doublethink. Orwell would be proud).
Do we really have a right to property?
If you park your car anywhere near the Seri Indian lands in Sonora, Mexico and go for a snorkel in the Sea of Cortez your car might be gone when you get back. The Seri are known "thieves," but their ancient culture held that all things belonged to every member of the tribe. If you lay your bow down, it meant you didn't need it any longer and someone who needed to hunt a rabbit was free to pick it up and use it. When you needed a bow again you had to go look for one.
If you park your car, you obviously don't need it any longer and the Seri's think they can just do with it what they will. I admit this example is a bit specious considering the Seri have devolved socially along with everyone else, but my point is that rights are a cultural artifact and not something inherent in the natural world. They're an abstract construct.
I think I've beat this dead horse enough, but thank you for this opportunity to explain further. Saving the planet is so much work! ;-)
While you clearly are done hairsplitting, I'm not =p
The 'rules' of biology do change. Evolution happens, and the rules that govern living evolve accordingly. Earth once had very little free oxygen, and this was part of the rules living things dealt with, but cyanobacteria changed the rules, and a lot of things died as a result.
An example of the inalienability of rights would be your right to not be compelled by force to do a thing. No matter what force was applied to you, you could retain agency to refuse to comply, even unto death.
Such proactive rights are demonstrably inherent, and inalienable. Rights can be violated, but cannot be alienated.
Sorry for exceeding your tolerance level for frog hair!
Sorry for being so dense. Oddly enough grappling with this idea has been keeping me awake at night. Frog hair makes me itch.
I looked up alienated in the dictionary and found a definition that helps: Transfer of property or ownership. If I have inalienable rights, then they cannot be transferred by force, or even as a gift. If I have a "right to free speech" then I can speak even if they throw me in jail or cut out my tongue. I may not be able to speak but my right to speak will still be mine, though that right would be moot at this point.
If I have a right to bare arms, I can wear a tee shirt even if it's snowing, or if someone cuts off my arms.
Do I have a right to have a Twinkie for breakfast every Thursday morning, then? If they take away my Twinkies and throw me in a dungeon, I still have that right even though I cannot exercise it.
I think having rights is a nice idea and within a social-legal structure I do believe they exist and so given those parameters I acquiesce.
However, biology adapts to changing conditions. That's its beauty. Cyanobacteria destroyed the world, mitochondria rode in on their ATP powered Krebs cycle and saved it. The rules didn't change, only the players.
Have a great TG, @valued-customer. I do enjoy our banter, frog hair and all.
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