Does God exist? (Intelligent debate only)
If you don't like these debates, you don't have to post.
My toughts first of all
god is a possibility given only a few unanswerable question such as
why do we exist?
how does anything exist?
where did the "gas" that created the universe in "the big bang theory" (I believe that's what it is called) originate from?
things that prove god wrong
I don't know much about Christianity but I was told in the bible it says something about him not liking organized religion isn't that a bit contradicting?
and if he is there watching us and looking after us why isn't he saving the starving children in 3rd world countries don't they pray doesn't that mean that they should be looked after by "angels" and what have you, not suffering and dieing I saw a picture online of an African baby starved to death and covered in flies where was his god?
and yeah I'm pretty into the idea of Atheism but I am not going to try to talk anyone out of there religions
Discuss.
Flagged: why is this #anarchism?
Some awesome questions. I've actually been struggling with them a bunch lately. As a bit of background, I actually refer to myself as a Christian Anarchist.
I don't think I need to address your points in favor of belief in the existence of G-d, I think they're self-explanatory. But as to the points that are critical I'd love to put in my two cents.
Yeah, it is a bit contradictory, but the thing to consider is that most people who call themselves Christians may not be doing a good job at following the ordinances in the Bible. I believe G-d originally chose a group of people to lead because He wanted to show them the way to live with each other that would be mutually beneficial to all. This way of life includes having no Earthly ruler over them (see 1st Samuel 8 for the example, this is a large part of why I am an anarchist as well as a Christian). G-d didn't hand down rules/instructions so people could create an oppressive religious organization, it was so the community could live with each other.
This is one part of a struggle I've been going through recently. I've been going through what some people call a "dark night of my soul". I've been getting to the point where I watch videos of police officers kicking people in the throat and "accidentally" shooting others while they're laying on the ground obeying the officer's orders. I read things like Romans 13 ("All of you must obey the government rulers. Everyone who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all those who rule now were given that power by God.") and Job 34 ("He keeps the wicked from ruling so that they will not bring harm to the people.") and I've been just shaking my head in frustration. "I put this trust in you and this book that I believe tells about you, and I see THIS? People doing what they're told, obeying this command, and they still get treated like this?!" It makes me angry and frustrated and hurt and confused. I tell myself I'm lacking in faith, that I'm beginning to doubt, but what am I really starting to doubt? Have I lost faith in G-d or in people? Do I doubt G-d or do I doubt the book I've been raised to believe tells me who He is? Am I experiencing a lack of faith about my faith or about my religion? I know the answer and many people don't like it, from either side. I know a lot of people pray and their prayers don't seem to be answered. I've been there. My dad has been in a wheelchair for 20+ years and my family has always prayed for his healing, but it hasn't happened. However, despite this pain and these struggles, I still see the ways my life has been led towards good and I haven't been able to lose faith in G-d, but how I view Him is different. Children are starving in third world countries because our systems are corrupted and selfish and wrong. We could easily wipe out poverty and hunger, but we don't because it would hurt too many people's bottom line. The U.S. throws out enough food per year to feed the entirety of other countries, but we make up rules about sharing food so we have an excuse to turn a blind eye. WE can fix it. G-d gives us the freedom to do so, we just don't have enough faith in the goodness of ourselves and each other to work for it.
That's cool. It's understandable. I have no problem discussing G-d (or the lack of) with other people. I hope I don't sound like an off-the-deep-end whack-job.
First of all, I think it is important to know that I grew up in a Christian Church, became an atheist in high school, then converted back to the belief in God while majoring in Science in college. When it comes to these sort of conversations, I usually play devil's advocate just for the sake of learning in growing. However, you are already asking the tough questions, so I'll do my best to answer some of these the best way I know how.
Yes, according to the Bible, Jesus does not like organized religion. In fact, it was organized religion that was after Him for exposing them for their hypocracy.
It is a mystery as to why God allows certain things to happen. I do know that this life is very temporary, and the things that we see as important, are not that important in the grand scheme of eternity.
We are on this earth to help, but yet we have become selfish and hardened. Sure, God could magically make everything great...but, we were not created to be robots. We must show His love by loving others.
How do I know God exists?
When you look at a building, how do you know that a builder exists? When you look at a painting, how do you know their is a painter? I know there is a creator because I see His creation!
It would have to mean that the designer of this plan was unbelievably lazy and inept, or unbelievably callous. And cruel. And indifferent. And capricious. And that is the case with every argument for design, and every argument for revelation and intervention, that has ever been made.
To draw a parallel, people used to know about fire as a source of heat and light, but not about nuclear fusion as a cause of these same two effects: and so in those days people quite sensibly based their reasoning on the idea that the Sun was a fire, since it resembled one. We might call this the Argument from Fire. But it would be foolish for someone living today to say: "We know that fire produces heat and light: therefore the Sun is on fire: therefore the Sun is not powered by nuclear fusion."
Could you define what you mean by God before I say whether I think he/it exists?
If you mean as a deity, I'll go with NO, I don't think such a deity exists.
I think for most it does not matter if God exists or not. They either believe in Him or not. For me the people's faith in God is only way to give our lives meaning, to get support (even if it is illusory).
From a purely rational point of view it's impossible to grasp, it's impossible to find a remotely satisfying answer to that. I've tried to explain life for almost thirty years through thinking, analysis, discussion etc. and I got more questions and doubts than before. Only once you tap into your inner wisdom then you might find a satisfying answer. That's why I'm such a fan meditation. It's through NOT THINKING that you start to get the answer to the questions: Does God exists? and What/who is God? However I like your approach to use this platform for such deep discussions :)
If he does, he's doing a shitty job on this planet.
Humans are doing a shitty job!
That (In the end of your argument) would be a god of gaps. And for some (Like buddists) what came before is irelevant because there is always a before. Nothing can come for nothing, therefore, there is no genesis, there is only a coninuum.
If god Exists, it is nothing like we can imagine which, makes its existence irrelevant for us, humans. At least in a meaning of beond faith or in any practical way.