Moe Flags Moe Steem
@therealwolf introduced me to another tool he built to improve the Steem ecosystem (I hope I'm not tagging you too much lately😅).
Steem Nolt, a tool to help the community to prioritize projects, and brainstorm on different ideas.
Right now the leading topics are about Worker Proposals, the need for Steem tutorials preferably outside Steem, and a request to bring back the view-counter and take in to account the # of views when detirmening payout. There are a total of 18 requests\suggestions at the time of writing.
And @therealwolf, can you add a feature to post the suggestion automatically on Steem blockchain? I'm posting my suggestion in both places anyway, and it seems like dpoll is getting quite popular because they post on Steem automatically.
So what the Hell is all my fuss about?
Flags, ladies & gentlemen, the absolute lack of FLAGS!
Here is the suggestion as posted on https://steem.nolt.io/, without further editing...
The vast majority of Steemians are afraid of flagging abusers (spammers, excessive selfvoters, shitposters, etc'). Mainly because of two reasons:
1: They lose out on curation rewards, because flagging takes a chunk of their voting power.
2: They're afraid of retaliation flags from the abuser, who will try to scare people off from flagging him\her.
The first issue can be addressed by adding separate voting mana for flags. But that will require a hard fork, and it seems that the steem ecosystem doesn't have the resources for that right now.
BUT! The 2nd issue can be addressed quite well, in my opinion.
An antiabuse leader should be able to do wonders, if he\she can insure his supporters are fully protected from retaliation flags. And that won't be that hard to accomplish. A "simple" tool needs to be developed, and abusers will start to feel the bern.
The tool should allow the antiabuse leader to do the following:
1: get posting authority from supporters.
2: each supporter will put a cap on the amount of daily VP % he\she is willing to donate to the cause (upto 20% daily).
3:
4: once an abusive post is found, select $ value that needs to be subtracted from it.
5: the tool will use a relative VP % from all supporters to achieve this $ deduction.
6: the tool will track the current standing (less than 7 days old) posts and comments of the supporters.
7: if any of them are flagged, the tool will once again use the VP of the supporters to reverse the damage.
This will bring abuse fighting to a WHOLE NEW LEVEL!
Why?
1: an abuser will be flooded with flags, and won't be able to retaliate against every singe flagger.
2: as long as the abuser doesn't have more SP than the entire abuse fighting collective, his\her retaliation will be null.
3: once abusers stop making money for several weeks, THEY WILL power down, and the coalition can attack the next target, practically purging any objective abuse on the platform!
Please tell me what you think, and whether you will agree to dedicate even a small fraction of your VP to clean our beloved home, which is Steem.
P.S does @steemflagrewards has the resources to develop something like this, @anthonyadavisii?
I like it :D There will be people who can find some disadvantages for sure, but I don't see them so far and I would definitely donate some of my VP if someone would build a tool like this.
Flagging is probably the one thing we really need to do 'centralized' so we can combine our powers and have greater impact. MarkyMark has made a global blacklist which is great, here we combine data/knowledge, combine it with a 'global flag tool' and we can maybe create a serious dent in the efforts of some spammers.
Hey @imacryptorick, been thinking about this problem for some time and it's a tough one.
One idea that I considered was a protocol level change (meaning hard fork required) introducing something called a reactive flag protection mechanism.
After speaking to @rondon about this, not sure if it is such a great idea. General idea is to put a pre-flag check of the flaggers last # of incoming flags as an indication of a revenge or retaliatory flag and for that flag to be essentially nerfed or impact reduced.
In theory, this would mean users flagging out of revenge would not be using their stake optimally. Unfortunately, this seemed to fall apart on one point.
Let's say the abuser is getting ready to go on a spamming binge. In preparation for said op, they go on a flagging rampage against all known abuse accounts (SC, sfr, spaminator, cheetah etc).
The result is not the abuser has protection because the legit flags against abuse would fit the pattern of a revenge flag.
This can be avoided by having a dedicated account specifically for downvoting that doesn't post but, in like fashion, the abuser can have dedicated alts to retaliate so not sure if the concept is salvageable.
As for using posting auth as you suggest, that could most certainly work and is technically feasible. I could do it low tech with memos specifying the cap that a bot would put into a sqlite DB or high tech if I wanted to stand up a front end.
I think it's an idea worth pursuing. Also, may want to give people the option to choose between their posting auth being used for flagging or healing only.
Posted using Partiko Android
I don't how much would protocol tracking retaliation flags will help.
But if someone setup a list of protectees, as in, those who get upvoted to counter flags would be a good idea. Because people can just sign-up to support an avid flagger without flagging themselves. Although that can be achieved via automation, even with current protocol.
The only hardfork I think we need, is a separate mana pool for flags. Everything else can be done with a tidy interface that works directly with the blockchain.
Posted using Partiko Android
Conceptually, a couple of these aspects are handled by @steemflagrewards already, however not automated. I'm not sure if I'd join automating flags via posting auths. Abuse or not abuse is often not a simple decision, there's a lot of personal opinion and grey area in between. Others might flag much more than I would, or the other way around. With the manual flagging with @steemflagrewards, I can currently choose freely if I want to join flagging and author/post or not, and I'm actually quite happy with that option. Another option could be to delegate to accounts that do nothing but flagging abuse, also with a reduced risk for retaliation. I think @flagawhale was meant for something like this, but I'm not sure if this account is still active for that purpose?
The different ideologies behind flagging is definitely an issue.
I think that the end goal should be something similar to a curation trail. As in different antiabuse leaders explaining their criteria for abuse, and those agreeing with said criteria sign-up as members of their abuse fighting team.
Some people might hate plagiarism, but aren't particularly opposed to shitposting (trivial, yet original posts that provide barely to no value to the reader).
Also, about what @anthonyadavisii said in another comment: some people would indeed be comfortable only with flagging or only with healing or some with both. But either of those options is enough to generate great change if enough Steemians take part.
Posted using Partiko Android
The vision was for @flagawhale to be an aggregated flagging pool account in which users can discreetly flag whale abuse while minimizing the risk in doing so.
That was the general idea but my effort has been more or less focused on SFR at the moment.
Posted using Partiko Android
Thanks for the clarification, @anthonydavisii! So beside spending a share of VP for flagging, delegating some SP to @flagawhale could also be an option to help against the lack of flags.
I love this idea! I find it difficult to keep up with needed flags, especially when I'm judging for PIFC.
Yes, retaliation flags is definitely a huge concern for a lot of people - especially those of us whose posts tend to be undervalued as it is. I would definitely dedicate 10% or so of my VP (even with PIFC going on all the time) towards this cause.
protection from retaliation flags should be the priority of any anti-abuse rally. It's sad to see some people simply post a picture of a flower/umbrella/gate and upvote it $40. -_-
Being fully transparent, in my almost year on the system I have not flagged anyone. I have opted to ignore them completely but have been reconsidering as of later given some of newer techniques for abuse being seen around the ecosystem during a time where those who deserve more rewards are being impacted. Unfortunately, I have not seen enough understanding of how it works so I have some research to do! However, I would support an initiative like this to protect the reward pool.
Posted using Partiko iOS
This is a really cool idea, for real if I had time I would start coding that idea. Really good!
Posted using Partiko Android
Anyone who is willing to donate some flagging power, say AYE!
I'm up for this, if it gets rid of some more of the crap then all the better. SFR currently has too much to flag and not enough resources to do it. Count me in.
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