Delegating SteemPower - The best idea since the invention of sliced bread?!

in #steemit8 years ago

The power to delegate Vests could really improve the democracy of steemit, the power distribution and the creation of dolphins and orcas. All in all, making the whole steemit experience better for everyone.

After reading dantheman 's post and thinking a bit on my own, I think I heard someone talk about this on steemit chat, but this idea really got me excited:
What if whales could give you from their power to use for curation?

Look, I'm first and foremost a steemit fan! I am always thinking in what ways can we improve steemit. I think being selfish around here is bad for everyone. It's almost like, it's STUPID to be selfish. I am in awe at a system that finally made selfishness a bad strategy :)
So that's why, the idea that vest delegation could be possible is exciting to me, because i think it could really power up [ cough ] the whole eco-system.

I'll use @berniesanders as an example. As of now he has 6779M vests.

He decides to delegate to me 25% of his power esentially transforming me into a mini-whale. What am I to do with this power? Well, CURATE obviously! Upvote stuff he would like to be upvoted but misses.

How would this work? Why would he chose me or you?

First, he must chose people he trusts, that he feels would do a great job and also not abuse the powers. How he and the whales in general will find and chose the people able to do that remain to be seen but can't that hard.
Still, even if you chose someone you think it's good, you need to test the person.

That's why, the powers would be somewhat limited: in time and in how often the delegate can use them.

Bernie --> @razvanelulmarin 25% [ or 1667M vests ] for [ 24 hours ] can be used [ 5 upvotes ].

This is what the line of code would do: he gives me this much power for 24 hours, in which time I can upvote 5 times. I chose whatever I want to upvote, I can mind my vote, curate with careand he could check afterwards.
If my job was well done, if my curation was good, helped authors that were otherwise lost in the sea of steemit and whatever else criteria [ prior discussed ] have been checked he might decided to give me the power once again for 24 hours and 6 upvotes, or maybe more or less or later.

|The idea here is that, he could all of a sudden create 4 smaller-whales to use his upvote powers, that would be AT least 4x his number of upvotes and more people noticed, followed and generally rising up from the minnows pool.

And this is something everyone could do! Every whale and orca could empower some minnows to do that.

Let's look at the downsides:

#1. The upvotes will be worth less.
This could, in turn, lessen the "casino effect" which is very important for ow steemit work. It's a real downside that needs to be considered, but I think it can be easily mitigated from 2 directions : the whales will still vote with their full power periodically and also, the casino effect will still be felt to some degree anyway, a 100$ upvote will motivate anyone to get to work.

#2. No "Follow the whale" effect
When a whale upvotes, people usually flock to the post and it gets what I call "after-upvotes", a lot of upvotes from people who merely "follow the whale" which in turn gives momentum and life to the post and usually, it goes up a lot more after that vote. With delegates, will this still happen?
I think this depends on weather people will know who is delegated and how much. And that's why I think it's important that we'll have a way to see this and "follow the delegates".

Other downsides include the possibility to game this, maybe a delegate would buy his way up or other situations will arise, but almost all type of abuse can be fixed with a hardfork here and there. But i'd argue that a person can be a delegate for only one person at a time, and for only one unit of the said power and no whale can delegate more than a certain number of people and certain % of the VESTs.

The benefits are plenty too. It's not only a great incentive to curate when you have that power but also, given that we could have 20-100 delegates at one time, the homogeneity of voting will be gone, people have strong preferences and that will be seen in the trending and in the tag. A lot of tags are not getting any love as of now, just because there's not a whale interested in that tag. With 100 delegates, this won't happen. The gems will be found, people will stick to writing, everyone will win!

What about curation rewards?

I'm sure the curation rewards will change in time, as the system in place today seems to be very unbalanced. But, considering that they stay the same, I can see that the downside for a whale would be that he/she won't see any rewards from delegating. Or maybe the delegate won't be inclined to do the work because he won't get much rewards beyond what he\d normally get.
A compromise is necessary. Both sides need incentivisations, one to delegate, one to accept the delegate-powers. As far as I can figure, the compromise would be that :A whale must give up part of its curation SP rewards.
Yes, a little sacrifices that will pay HUGE dividends when steemit finally explodes.

This is just a sketch of an idea, I'm sure I missed a ton of stuff and I might be wrong on some others but I'm writing, as always, with hope that a lively and interesting discussion from all side can kindle.

Looking forward to that!

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You hit upon one of the big advantages for the whales in your idea: Delegation! As Steemit grows, more and more of their time will be taken up by curating and the more and more things they'll miss. In a way, it's like being an overworked executive: when the work load grows to a certain point, you have to let some of it go by delegating to people you trust.

The temporary part is a good idea, at least at the start.

You make a great point here! as steemit grows, the number of whales remains the same so it will become harder and harder for one to cover everything....

Yeah... As Andrew Carnegie once said, "No person will make a great business who wants to do it all himself or get all the credit.”

Worth remembering, especially if you're a workaholic.

Kind of like creating temporary admins or mods. Interesting post.

exactly! and as the trust grows, so could your "mod" powers and reputation. as long as the curation rewards are settled why would this not work?!

Interesting. I'm far from needed to understand all this, because I'm at the lowest level of steemit. But I'm learning more from informative post like this. Best wishes.

I must say, I might not be the best source of information. to really understand, please read everything this guy puts out https://steemit.com/@hisnameisolllie!!

Interesting idea indeed, but it seems today the whales got an option to set the power of their vote directly from the steemit interface with the latest update. So now they can apparently set how much of their voting power they want to use for a post they vote on.

Prior to that I think that this was only possible if using the CLI wallet and it was not convenient function to use, especially if you have to vote on quite a few posts daily.

So what? I'm not talking about vote power, i'm talking about vote variety. a whale is still a whale no matter what power his vote has..it's about the idea that using many delegates as his eye and curators will maximize the chance of them seeing the good posts. that's my post about. I knew abou that option, i just experienced it in dantheman's post :))

I expect that finding the right people to delegate power to and rotate them, then monitoring their progress and what they spent the delegated voting power on will essentially just make it harder for them, unless it is really implemented in a smart way.

really? i don't think so. maybe you don't realize that some work IS necessary if you want this to work. Too many good posts and posters are feeling frustrated and unheard...some effort is necessary at the beginning but afterwards...as the trust is built, who knows.
But I can respect you like the current system.

As I already said this is an interesting idea that needs to beconsidered as an option for sure. If it is the right solution however, not sure about that. What needs to be done for sure however is that the people with more voting power and knowledge in different topics should increase, so that a big chunk of good posts will not be getting burried all the time.

@razvanelulmarin I outlined a similar structure after also being inspired by @dantheman's post.

I think whales should be able to delegate their power and do so in a controlled way. In fact, I take it a step further and outline a system where they are able to have experts vote on their behalf on those categories they know best.

Take a look at my proposal and tell me what you think:
Steemit Proposal for Developer and Community Evaluation
https://steemit.com/steemit/@mrosenquist/steemit-proposal-for-developer-and-community-evaluation

This is very exciting @razvanelulmarin, with the existence of whales lots of small fishes will surface and can enjoy the environment of the dolphins without the fear of being eaten and lost in the deep. Yes, this will help encourage the masses to write more.

I read dantheman's post too and I understand you better then I understand him, maybe because of the words his using or I'm too tired, but the point is almost the same. You are a fast reader and writer, and that's pure skills. Good for you.

thanks but i find this hard to believe :(

You can believe what you want, I just told you my opinion.

I'm by no means an expert, but in my few weeks here on steemit I've come to the conclusion that it's not supposed to be a democracy. There is a strong anarchist influence behind the ideal that steemit has no central governing entity. In a way that's true now because the whales are distributing wealth and power. It's happening slowly but as @dantheman mentioned in his post, it's important to protect steemit until it's entrenched in society.

Is the idea you've proposed a solution to the problem some have with voting? I doubt it. Being based on democratic ideals, of power being temporarily given and then taken back, it doesn't really fit. I suspect that we need to look closer at the behaviour of voters to determine what "game" they should be playing so that the community benefits without driving individuals away. No easy feat.

I said more democratic, not democracy. the idea is this, whales need to vote more, but there's only so much humanely possible. so they can't. delegating will be like they multiply themselves.

Yes, it might a temporary solution but unless you can create 100 more whales out of thin air, curation as a dolphin/low SP is not helping the individuals so much. Everyone hopes to get the attention of a whale. EVERYONE: 40.000 accounts hoping for the attention of 50 whales[ if there are as many ]. in 2 months they'll be 100.000+ and STILL 50 whales. That's the problem and a proposed solution.

BUT! I did say and I do think I'm not necessary seeing all the angles and a better solution is possible and I can not phantom it, that's cool. that's why i'm looking forward to the discussion my post and others will birth and ALSO why I thank you for taking the time to comment!

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