Flat Earthers, Speak to me

in #science7 years ago (edited)

So, I don't have much to do on this 'Hottest day in at least 145 years' Sunday. So why not engage with people I wouldn't normally engage in?

In my science-y circle, It came to my attention that there is this huge Steemit divide between scientific minded people and... Skeptics of science. In particular, flat earthers.

I want to ask some questions to the latter, and if any actually read this, perhaps we can have a civilized set of answers.

But here are some notes and rules:

  • I will not answer in these comments, so don't answer a question with a question. I will express my thoughts in a follow up post (if there are enough things to go with)

  • I am not trying to patronize or mock, I simply observed a complete bewilderment on both sides on how one side can't see the way of the other side, and want try try and close that gap, but obviously, I am not a believer of flat earth and likely never will be. The point is not to convert me, but to teach me the details.

  • Do not express answers in memes or links or youtube videos. Explain answers using your own knowledge. You can put a link afterwords that backs up your claim if you like, and I'll happily check it out. But I want your words.

So without further adieu, for flat-earthers only, here are some questions:

1 - When you say 'I've been researching', have you actually done research, or are you just gathering information from various other sources and shifting it onto a blog post? If you are somebody who has done research, please explain it to me in the comments

2 - Similarly, have you actually tested the roundness of the earth yourself? Have you actually, say, launched a balloon into space with a camera (You can do this for barely $150)? If everybody doing this are using special lenses to trick everybody, why?


Image of a balloon from students at Leicester University

2B - If you don't believe in photographic evidence from the majority of the world, what DO you consider evidence?

3 - What are your best arguments putting the final nail in the coffin? A mic-drop point that scientists cannot adequately reply to? Note, this cannot be something that is unfalsifiable like God or tooth fairies or Santa. Show me something that you can do yourself, that I can do, that researchers could do, something that is reproducible, as in, proof.

4 - (Extra questions to browse) What is your best argument against the typical classic questions against you including but not limited to those below? Feel free to choose one, all or others:

  • Why don't we fall off the edge?
  • Explain the results of the simple stick experiment on a summer solstice day
  • Why are all the other planets round, as can be directly observed with a telescope, ball-shadows, rotation and all?
  • How do you explain orbiting around the sun, as can be directly observed with a telescope on other planets, with actual maths and science?
  • Saturn's rings?
  • Are any of you experts in GPS technology, and if so, how does GPS work if everything that has been calculated based on a sphere is a lie?
  • Have you actually been to the ice wall? Have you traversed it and measures it go around the earth?
  • How do you explain every single photo and video by every amateur and professional out there? I don't mean, how can you correct them, but how can you explain that so many people are in on some gigantic secret, including students just having fun?
  • What is the point of this secret?
  • How do seasons work?
  • If I fly in a straight line for long enough, what happens? Explain it, and why nobody has ever done it before.
  • How does sunset work?

5 - Are any of you educated in the STEM fields (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics), and if so, how did you learn to dismiss everything you have learnt as a lie, and what did you replace it with?



Now, I want to engage anybody reading this on a level equal to me and scientists alike, that means if you want to answer things with 'yes' or simple 5-word, matter-of-fact remarks that show no evidence or proof and just imply it's somehow common sense, don't bother replying, it won't consider it an answer.

It should be obvious at this point that I'm looking for hard, observable scenarios, experiments, experiences and evidence that can be replicated. I have a very long holiday right now so if you're convincing enough, I could potentially go and replicate your claims.



Please refrain from patronising, insulting, trolling and so on. I've been on the internet as long as you have, I barely raise an eyebrow so if that's your intent, maybe save your typing energy for elsewhere! Let's keep it civil!

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Whether it is flat or not is anyone who believes it is not round really going to get a crew together to travel outward to the vastly unknown to discover anything?

I think not.
I don't think anyone would be prepared or know how to prepare for such a trip.

the truth is, whether it is flat or not, besides pulling a mask over everyone to do their own bidding with the 'new land', what will be done?

How about use all of this #yunk to do something that is possible with a movement... like explore the rest of our oceans?

What I don't understand is why anyone would prefer a flat Earth over a round one. It's as if they want the world to be flat just so they can sneer at scientists. Is imagining a flat world easier than a round one? Does a flat Earth more closely correspond to ones described in religious texts? Does belief in a flat Earth correspond with belief in space aliens, lizard people, the Illuminati, a secret subterranean world?

People can believe whatever they like. But science depends on objective reality, facts, measurements, consistency. We've understood the Earth to be round for more than 2,000 years. I find it hard to believe a "Round Earth Conspiracy" could survive for so long in so many places.

I hope you get some good responses from this post. As a science teacher, I've been considering writing something about Flat Eartherism for weeks now, but haven't found the right "hook" to get it going.

It's unlikely I'll get any responses really, just something to get down on a Sunday! But if I do, I'll be sure to follow it up.

I'm genuinely curious that, if they're not trolling... how did they get to such rogue beliefs? I loosely understand the psychology behind it, but it doesn't feel enough

There are some people who think everything we're taught is false. Others figure there is some hidden agency behind everything, from world politics to the Fed. And others just don't understand anything science- or math-related, and figure there must be an easier, more "common sense" explanation for things.

Then you got the trolls, who enjoy yanking our chains.

My conclusion buddy is that none of us really know. My Uncle "went up in space 3 times" as part of the crew on the Columbia in the 90s so I know a little about NASA and their lies. My Uncle's father is also George David Low, the man in charge of Apollo 8. So I have literally any information that one could need to make a decision on this topic.

And it still is who cares? Why does it matter if we know the earth is round or flat? We can still keep on working, helping ,and inspiring people no matter the shape of the Earth. I have learned worrying about things like this distract you and make you take away time from your life purpose.

Thank you for your perspective. Keep doing great things

So what it your decision? Flat or round? I'm interested, I care

I guess you didn't get the point my friend :)

You ever think it might change?

I get your point but it does bother me if knowledge is hidden from me & the world that could completely change it. For example, if there have been technology transfers between aliens & humans that could have prevented disease or given us free energy, I think it would be perverse if it was hidden from us.
The idea that a tiny minority of people have knowledge & therefore power that could change the lives of everyone for the better bothers me.

Not for long my friend. Just hold out a little bit longer and you will see. We got a counter to that tiny majority :)

I'll hold out. I have no choice, I'm 39 years old and my eldest child is 8, but I'd really like it if my kids could grow up the world that I think is possible if not for the tiny majority as you call them. Good luck, and anything I can do to help, let me know.

Amen I completely understand. I am 28 and I can't wait to bring children into this new world. Just have a few years of work ahead of us :)

And will do, I appreciate it

To be honest I don't really care, the majority of the world believe completely different things to me. This is more an open arm to try and understand the minds of those different people.

What is your Uncle's name? If he went to space 3 times there should be plenty of records of him and his thoughts on NASA's lies I'd like to read

George David Low just like his father. They are a big name in NASA, please go look them up. One of the research facilities is named after him.

And I totally understand buddy and as wild as it sounds there may be people out here that know more than you. A crazy thought right?

"His father, George M. Low, was a former NASA director who was the first to suggest to President John F. Kennedy in 1960 that an astronaut could walk on the moon within the decade. The elder Low, who died in 1984, also directed the Gemini and Apollo missions."

Enough info for you lol? :)

Not really. I did some searching and found nothing about his thoughts on NASA being liars. In fact, he seemed to be nothing but overly enthusiastic about NASA. I have found his brother's contacts though, might be worth asking them. You're right that others know more than me, I'm not even a real scientist!

Lol and I spent the first 13 years of my life with him, you don't think we ever talked hahahahahahaahaha. And those links were to show you who he and his family was. If he published the shit he wrote, they would take his pension away and my Aunt and cousins would be screwed.

That's why the universe only exposes real info to real people. good luck on your journey, you have much to learn. Namaste

Interesting, cheers

Learn something new everyday buddy, cheers :)

I have a sneaking suspicion that at least some of the flatearthers are just trolling. I simply have a hard time comprehending how somebody could ignore so much evidence just to hold on to their favorite conspiracy theory.

Maybe it's YOU and ME that's really blinded. Ever though of that??

Yep. It's just that we are not attentive enough to notice how airplane illuminators are actually all fake and show us fake images when we fly. The Illuminati even signed them with their name and yet we remain blinded. How much more obvious do we need the conspiracy to get to wake up.

(Yep, trolling from the flatearther perspective might indeed be fun :P)

Good to know, but:

I cannot deal anymore with this hillbilly fake-anarchism

I tried to think of reasons for the earth is flat, but i couldn't come up with any logical way of putting it to make sound right.

Then you are the wrong audience!! I need those who will cry out against the crime that is science and logic!

I know, i just try to fit in other's shoe to see how things go XD

So i was told on the 8th day #yunk was added to the flat earth

I knew there was a page missing... now the Bible has much more continuity

Why do they call it a horizon and not a curve-izon?
Why do tall buildings not lean away from you at a distance?
Why did they not include the curve when I was taught how to do surveying and in my fieldwork for the certification?
Why did they not include the curve in my dad's industrial engineering textbooks?
Why is the curve not discernible anywhere on the many flights I take?
Why do pilots not have to keep dipping the nose of the plane down as they fly?
Why do planes have to fly north when it seems like they should go straight east or west?
Why is Antarctica off limits to everyone?

I have no answers but those are some of the the current questions I am concerned with and have not let seen good answers to date. I pretty much gave up on the topic since it does not change my daily life, but I keep my eyes open for new facts.

Cool. I can answer most of these but I'd like to do it in a follow up post, so keep an eye out for it! Here's a freebie:

Why do they call it a horizon and not a curve-izon?

Because most english words are not based in English, theyre rooted in greek, latin, frencheven indian languages. English is a mixture, as you probably know:

late Middle English: via Old French from late Latin horizon, from Greek horizōn (kuklos ) ‘limiting (circle).’'*

I think you are underestimating the power of words and symbols. Look into how they create meaning in our heads and see what you think. A lot of people study this phenomenon - I don't; I just block as much of it as I can and keep going on my mission.

If people were seeing a curve - the word horizon would not fly.

The curve is never seen as far as I can tell. You can confirm this on steemit with the #beachwednesday tag. No curve is seen in any of those pics on any horizon. In some photos you are seeing 30-50 miles away down a coast, so I think it should be discernible.

You correctly point out that the word "horizon" along with thousands of others was created in late middle English - right about Shakespeare's time. Many new words came into existence in a big flood; changing thought in the English speaking world.

As you note - the Greek word had nothing to do with the horizon as we know it today. That is another rabbit hole: "Why did the Greek language have such a contribution to 15th Century European languages when that culture had been dead for so long?" This is probably tied to your research if you want to jump. I think this is where the ball idea came from too, but I'm not 100% sure.

I'll look out for more posts :)

All your question were already answered, just do your homework. Moon is round like a bulb therefore floor must be round too, right?

But tell me one thing. People (or machines) are (based on NASA) traveling to space (Moon or further) for about 50 years. If you go to space in distance where you can see all earth, would not be the first thing to take a camera and make a proper recording of you, space, Moon, Earth a shuttle so everyone can see? Rotating camera all around to capture all those amazing things in motion. An guess what? After 50 years we have nothing like that. Wondering why? Either someone doesn't want to share what's there or there is nothing to share and it's hard (impossible) to fabricate and therefore nothing "undeniable" is released.

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