Steemit and the Upvote Game
My first thought as I wrote the title was that it sounds a bit like the name of a strange band. Maybe Cajun; Zydeco.
Of course, it isn't... it came about more as the result of finding a few moments to do my "daily rounds" here; to see what some of my favorite Steemians have been saying.
Observation number 1: A lot of my "favorite Steemians" are no longer here.
Coast in Big Sur, California
Or, at least, they are no longer contributing.
Realizing this made me briefly "time travel" back to the days of early web message boards... and to the memory of how people would suddenly "vanish" in mid-stream. One day they are super active contributors and community members and then... sudden silence.
Sometimes followed by a stray message, three years later: "Yeah, I got married and moved to Aruba. Hope you guys are doing well."
Messages like that always made me wonder "Am I the one that's trapped in a box, and THEY are the ones escaped the Matrix and are living life?"
It's a real consideration, in these days of "online addiction."
Observation number 2: The Upvote Game.
As I read posts this morning, I realized just how many posts out there have lots of votes and comments... and how few of them actually involve human interaction.
Heart of a Daisy, in close-up
Whatever happened to actually reading people's posts and interacting with them?
So much of Steemit seems like it has become rather formulaic... less and less about a bunch of idealistic people contributing to building an alternative social content community, and more and more about "automated gimmickry" that's designed to use any number of automated algorithms to extract every possible penny from the system.
There are guilds and upvote rings and upvote bots for hire and more. Came across one post with eleven comments from "automation" and not a single one from a human.
WTF, mate?
It seems more and more like it's just a game.
Of course, the irony of my even saying that is that sties like Steemit ultimately represent the gamification of social media. Even Facebook and Instagram and others-- without tangible rewards-- are still more of a "big game" of gaining likes and follows than they are about authentic interaction. For a lot of people "I have 4200 friends on Farcebook!" is a more relevant statement than having a deep discussion with someone about the meaning of life.
Observation Number 3: Steemit and the Personal Blog
My objective here was always to return to "personal" blogging. Random observations and examinations of the human condition, life and beyond.
Lavender in bloom
I was never about writing instructional pieces on "How To Use The Latest i-Phone Models."
Personal blogging is a delicate balance between "what people want" and "what we feel like writing." Finding a niche and audience generally has nothing to do with "commercial viability."
The fact that personal bloggers can earn a few dollars on Steemit is a blessing, because mostly our "wares" have no value from a marketing and sales perspective. Personal thoughts are not a "product."
At least not in most cases.
Well, I have to go back to work now... so I'll send this into the space of ones and zeros, with the usual questions for thought at the end:
How about YOU? Has your approach to Steemit changed in the time you've been here? If you have been here a long time, are you as enthusiastic now, as you used to be? Do you belong to any guilds and groups? Do you buy upvotes and re-steems? Have you ever? Leave a comment - share your experience - be part of the conversation!
(As usual, all text and images by the author, unless otherwise credited. This is original content, created expressly for Steemit)
Published 20171024 17:52 PDT
Bots pretty much ruin Steemit. I am not as enthusiastic about Steemit as I was when I started. It's very Whale centric. There are awesome posts made by minnows no one ever reads. I make more commenting on posts than I do with my own blog. I'm sticking around though and continuing to invest small amounts of money in Steem as an investment. Even if my number never gets high I would have liked to bought a bunch of Bitcoin when it was a dollar. I think there is potential here but the automatic voting and the bots make it kind of lame.
I think bots can have their purpose, but only as administrative tools. I know some great human curators on Steemit who use bots to "fetch reading lists" they then manually curate. And that makes sense to me. Saves time, and helps ensure you don't miss some of your favorite writers in different time zones.
Nowadays, I often make more on curating/commenting than with my own posts. Just this past week I had a day where I made almost $30 from commenting/curating, vs. $4 for my own post... I'm OK with that, since it encourages interaction.
I consistently earn more in curation rewards than in author rewards. Of course, writing more would be the most direct fix for that, but it all takes time. Time to do the writing, and time to gain traction with fans who like what you do and upvote your posts on a regular basis.
In a perhaps ironic twist, I've been using a bot to automagically upvote all of your posts for about a month now, @denmarkguy
If there are "awesome posts made by minnows no one ever reads" .........
what is your diagnosis of the situation? Why aren't these authors' friends, relatives, colleagues, school mates, competitors, acquaintances, barbers, doctors, local politicians, neighbors etc. etc. reading these "awesome posts" of theirs?
Maybe a little personal responsibility is in order. Unlike many people nowadays, I don't think the world, government, or even steemit, owes me a living or a readership served to me on a silver platter. In someone else's other words: "The harder I work, the luckier I get".
Promoting yourself and your work is a significant aspect of any endeavor, don't you think? Being good at something is not enough. Millions of manuscripts have never been read by other than the author. Some of them might be really good, but who will ever know? I think that steemit has given content creators a new and exciting tool, but you have to pick it up, learn how to use it effectively, and then do so.
Another some one else's pithy wisdom: "Success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" That being said, yes, some people do get lucky. But it is not really a good life plan to have "winning the lottery" as your road map to success.
I'm not asking my friends to invest money here. I feel like if it crashes and burns and they did invest in it I would feel guilty. Yeah get paid to blog but only if you invest. Oh and use voting bots and upvote services where no one even reads the posts. The whales make a post of Their dog and it makes big bucks. The hot or trending posts are never minnows. People don't vote and comment for content they do it to people who have a high number next to their name. High votes has little to do with content and everything to do with a number. All the minnows who get frustrated and leave are bad for the site. I have seen successful bloggers leave here. I guess they should have got their moms to join and vote for them
Steemit is a tool - to be used, abused, or ignored. I don't think this world is ever going to be "fair" according to my guess as to what your definition of "fair" might be.
And, absolutely, if your own Mom isn't going to vote for you, why should anyone else?
I never used the word fair. Not do I think anyone owes me anything. Not sure where that is coming from. The way it's set up now is not conductive for growth of the site. I want to see steem go up in value not stay at a dollar because everyone leaves
Even so... as I pointed out elsewhere, I created this blog 100% "organically." Sure, I was doing 100% power up for several months... but I'd say my results were pretty decent for a fully content powered Steemit account. Sadly... unexpected financial turbulence has necessitated me powering down some... but I'm still OK.
Sure, there's some cronyism here... but I think that's a part of human nature we will never escape, no matter how idealistic we get.
That ▲▲▲
Been saying that pretty much since I became part of this gig... this isn't a "job" and Steemit "owes" me nothing. It's great that we get the opportunity to be rewarded, but Steemit didn't hire any of us, and thus what we get here is not a salary we should feel entitled to. I feel pretty blessed that this place has allowed me to swim (rather than sink) at a time when a bunch of unexpected financial crap floated my way... whereas I regret having to power down some, it's a blessing that I could.
Does talent go overlooked on Steemit? Sure it does... and I confess that I sometimes wish greater value was placed on human curation so there'd be more incentive for people to seek out and highlight such gold nuggets... but hey, it is what it is. Still rather be doing this than wasting more years on Farcebook.
I go back and forth with my enthusiasm and how I approach Steemit. I don't like the bots and the paid vote and paid resteem schemes. The automated messages, disconnected from the people running them, are alienating.
I was active in the SteemTrail effort, because it seemed like a way to encourage community. But its management has been so depressing and really frustrated my curation for the @foraging-trail. I thought SteemTrail would eventually connect with the development of communities. But the SteemTrail vision of community webpages went nowhere, with no communication. Then they started taking both the Steem Power and SBD that the managers of a trail generated. So it seems so pointless and more and more like a scam. It has affected my enthusiasm for Steemit, for sure. But I'm trying to figure out a way to support a foraging community outside of the SteemTrail effort going forward.
I like Steemit and the people I have connected with. But it is so hard keeping up with everyone. And it's discouraging to look at SteemNow and see people upvoting at 1% or even 0.36%!
I miss some folks who have been away, but I've dropped out a few times, too, returning after life priorities balanced out a bit. I've been hanging in with just 1 post a week, for the Steemit Iron Chef challenge. Once I get past this week, my schedule opens up again and I'll be a lot more active here again.
I'm looking forward to becoming more active again. I'll be upvoting at 100% for most posts - and a lot more than 10 times a day. My maximum vote value will stay low, but I'll end up distributing more of the reward pool, rather than hoarding my voting power. I'll be trying to provide stretch out here, too, revealing more about myself, instead of trying to stay anonymous.
That's more than you probably wanted to read, lol. But I've been struggling with this same topic and your post offered a place to reflect out in the open. Thanks!
Thanks for your thoughtful reply @haphazard-hstead-- always nice to "see" you here.
I think it's important we have this discussion in as many places as possible... in essence, it boils down to "people" vs. "automation." At least on the surface.
If we dig a bit deeper, I see "short term gain" (bots/automation) vs. "long term growth" (people building and "anchoring" a community). HUMANS build communities, code and bots do not. Short term thinking, however, revolves around "how do I get the most money for this next post" (which may-- or may not-- be a fair objective) but disregards the greater long term impact of the approach.
Some would argue "yeah, but you're free to blog and interact with the site as you wish!" and that's definitely true... but again, it disregards the greater environmental impact. And I've down this road before... and I can easily see how excess reliance on bots/code/automation is a path to three-cent Steem... in the LONG run.
But then we get back to the circular argument-- short term only cares if today's post pays for tonight's dinner... not whether there will BE a dinner to be earned, two years from now.
'bots are a rilly rilly BIG problem.
(many times WORSE than self voting)
They may be killing Steemit.
It would seem to me that anyone who uses bots for voting or commenting
is contributing to the demise of steemit.
All I can suggest is that we each make our own walled garden
(follow real people)
and interact with those we invite with in it.
Not much we, as individuals, can do about 'bots
Ignore them?
Sadly, I can't get beyond seeing the bot problem as merely a miniature reflection of a greater world that's all about personal gain NOW with zero regard for the future and/or the impact current actions have on future existence.
The Walled Garden principle is a good idea... and I'm behind that notion. And if you look at the comments on this post, you don't see a whole lot of bot comments OR people going "nice post, please follow me," and I'd mostly like to keep it that way. And give my upvotes to those taking a similar approach.
I'd even carry the walled garden approach even further if I could.
Invite only perhaps?
Can't believe I'm actually saying this... but there's ONE thing I find myself saying Farcebook does better: The ability to subdivide your friends list (on Steemit, "people we follow") into groups we name, ourselves.
Here, that could mean "show me posts from my subgroup 'authors'" or "show me posts from my subgroup 'crypto experts'" or whatever. THAT would be a pretty useful tool.
I was never really convinced that Steemit was the final solution. The idea that the ones investing most should have the biggest say in what gets rewarded the most is not necessarily leading to better content. I think that ideally the people on the internet should learn to pay for what they use.
On the other hand - being free is probably what makes Steemit a success and the thing that makes it work. It is closer to the experience on Facebook, Snapchat, Google + etc. and it somehow follows the same logic when it comes to growth as a motor.
One of the things I have really appreciated about Steemit-- and one of the reasons I hope it persists in the long run-- is that the interactions here are (on the whole) a lot more "intelligent" than on most other social media. I don't see a whole lot of petty mudslinging over tiny issues here... whether that's a bi-product of the permanence of blockchain technology I don't know... but I find it pretty refreshing not to be surrounded by a bunch of trolls and flamers flailing away at each other. That, ALONE, makes Steemit worth saving and fighting for...
It is true that things here are much more mellow. I have experienced it also on small decentralised social media like Diaspora and GnuSocial. I do not think the underlying technology is the key, but maybe the people who are attracted to these small-town communities are more concious about the role they have in creating the place. Most of the trolling and flaming and stupidity are people behaving like children in the shadow of a strict but un-empathic mom. Facebook is such a mom.
The only thing that is changed recently for me is more frustration at the platform not working as it should, hard to post/vote & reply
Its not a good advertisement for new people to the platform when they see it running like Windows 3.1 with 4mb of ram
That is definitely one of my bones of contention... and one of the reasons I have lost some enthusiasm about recommending Steemit to others-- why would I want to tell friends about that site that struggles to run smoothly? Doesn't reflect well on me or the site.
Engagement is key to me because I always want feedback on what people think of my post and plus it's a great way to make new friends on this platform that can guide you and it shows the author that you actually care about what they write
Engagement IS key, yes... and in a sense YOU are proof of the truth of that-- you're one of Steemit's hardest workers and most engaging people; however, few have the dedication and fortitude to post over 8000 times in just a few months... and they are all REAL posts and comments which is awesome!
I enjoy the interaction here, as well... which is why I tend to only follow "real" people who also interact, and that's the part of Steemit I am really interested in helping expand. BUT... it's hard to keep people's enthusiasm when it becomes more and more evident that a mechanized approach yields better rewards.
I try to comment as much as I can to interact with others and show them what I have learned and what I may have questions of but some people value their reward more than anything which is quite sad. First you must build a reputation and rest that too
Same approach I have been following. And there is definitely a hierarchy of experience here... which I think is as it should be.
What concerns me is a situation developing in which "mechanized content" pushes human content out of the way because its simply more rewarding to automate.
Great post. I have not been here long, but long enough to realise a few things.
so demand for 'product' is less than supply
Maybe I am hopeful that steem will turn the model upside down before it collapses
ie broaden the base of rewarding, rather than having it so top heavy with whales & bots that is falls over.
if not, the great concept that is steem will be taken by someone else & made to work elsewhere
$0.02
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Certainly one of my concerns is that some other site will take the foundation of Steemit and try to "do it better." 20+ years experience in the social content field tells me that copycats will ALSO fail... unless they can overcome the fundamental issue of short term greed dominating long term stability. And that has been a problem for as long as there have been "rewards" sites: In order to attract people, you have to have a good "carrot," but the best carrots tend to attract short term greed... so what do you do? It's hard to get much traction with a promise that "you might become really well rewarded in 5 years or so."
It's my hope that the "real" users of Steemit who create real original content can carve out enough of a niche for themselves to continue being viable. AND that maybe Steemit, Inc. and the developers will see the wisdom of returning to a system that rewards curation more highly.
I agree that the 'carrot' needs to be there to attract customers.
to grow that base must be encouraged to participate
with out rewards that will not happen
the whales are bad but can be dealt with
the bots not so easy.
Sure I may not read every word or study every pic before I vote or comment but
if you have to use a bot to vote because your 'away' then sorry
your not "participating" your just taking from the system, a downward
spiral for steem IMHO
A very good post, and especially relevant now - with all the glitchiness at the moment - this cannot be conducive to steemiaains either spending time reading other posts, or posting themselves.
I am becoming less interactive myself, due to this.
As for new people joining - forget about it while its like this. (it really is a joke)
I wrote a post about my day off yesterday - You will appreciate it more than most , I think ! enjoy..
https://steemit.com/blog/@lucylin/turning-negatives-into-positives-a-day-off
Yeah, that was a good post.
There are 2000 new accounts per day being made, so it's pretty important these glitches get worked out.
Yeah, I have been steemit about 5 months, sometime buys upvotes, some have 0.01$ upvotes, and I am still in the box
I want to see success here,
Wish me luck,
I guess all we can do is keep working away at it! I appreciate that you come here and leave a real "human" comment... and let's all just keep doing that; those of us who care.
I am decidedly less enthusiastic. I think the folks you interact more with should be easier to follow. It is too difficult to legitimately gain traction as a newbie; it's a feeling of selling yourself out versus organically building a following. There is a lot of phony people, some being rewarded for unoriginal content. The recent performance snags make me spend less time here.
I can totally appreciate that.
This account was grown 100% "organically" and it was working well... up to a point. And then it started cycling backwards because the efforts of "human interaction and engagement" started losing ground, relative to automation. I even watch people I have followed for 9 months confess that they have started using bot votes because "it was taking too long" for them to manually follow content. And I get that. The problem? They give out uniform "7% upvotes" to 200 people they trust... as a result of which top quality is not curated to the top. And so, we end up with this word soup where it's hard... especially for recent arrivals... to become seen.
Yeah, that's right. Interesting. The curation becomes un-natural.