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RE: Convince Me! Challenge: Why you still eat meat (extended deadline and update)

in #vegan6 years ago

"I personally think that it is a mistake by the vegan community to dilute this argument. They will have more success by sticking with is line of thought. A direct approach"

There is no "vegan community" there's lot's of different vegan communities who believe different things just like virtually any other group even Christians have like hundreds if not thousands of different Christian sects among Christianity.

a lack of stated clarity concerning what the actual outcome is for veganism - Is it specifically targeting "meat eating" or the "mass production of meat" OR are meat eaters being used as pawns in a battle with mass producers of meat?

Once again. Depends on the vegan or group you ask, there's lots of different ideas.
One thing they share is an desire and wanting to reduce unjust harm done to other sentient beings.

I think by making meat eaters unwilling participants in this cause could be counter-productive to your objectives. Let look at the results of this contest thus far - 80% of the participants were alienated to the cause and there your target market walks away.

Okay, this isn't my contest. I'm just a passerby with an opinion. And I think almost everyone is a pawn in the world, so the meat eaters aren't special. They are just one layer of the onion.

This isn't unfortunately does a lot to undo the hard work you guys put in as it dilutes the animal rights side of things.

Once again not sure what you're saying cause it seems like your words are out of order or missing here and there, but.. It is what it is, there's a lot of different opinions. Ever heard of the political/hacker type group Anoynmous? There's no leader, there's lots of different people and groups with their own opinions. You can't just point to one group or idea and try to sort of "straw man" it or have a place to focus all of your aggression. It's split out and multifaceted and diverse. Not as easy to just lump it all into one big thing for you to try to destroy. It's all over the place. But like with any movement, there is a common bond. A desire to reduce unjust harm to other beings.

For you the one who is arguing and perpetuating abuse to other beings unjustly, you should be the one under the spotlight, not us. You're the one taking your beliefs into the physical realm to harm other beings and deprive them of their rights and life. We're just pointing out your unjust behavior.

Define immoral act - What are speaking about? Unfortunately this also very loosely defined.
Is it eating meat?
Is it commercial production of meat?
Is is the act of purchasing mass produced meat?

Infringing on the rights of another being in a way in which you would not like done to you or those you love. It's very simple, it's the golden rule.. The like main spiritual teaching of all religions going back thousands of years. Don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to you. It's simple. Anything you wouldn't want done to you, don't do it to others.

And taking it a step further why is it not immoral for vegans to support outlets that stock mass produce meat or meat per se depending on your definition?

I really don't know what you're asking here. Can you rephrase this? But.. Either way, I think my above statement should cover it. The golden rule. Don't treat others the way you wouldn't want to be treated. It's simple.

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I might be wrong, but maybe the challenge is not about the black and white but more about the greys?
I hope so....
There should be no hard line to anothers life. We are all splinters of the same consciousness.
Certain vegans do not have the right to the 'holier than thou' attitude they like to portray.
No-one is far from blame.
The car you drive? the clothes you wear? The paper you use? the electricity you consume? The trips you take?
Perhaps you wish to talk about lives? Sweat shops...those forced into sex work? Those bombed out of existence? Those that commit suicide because of the demand on their lives....
Perhaps you meant animals? I see you quote the bible above.... How about :

Genesis 9:3 ESV /
Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

or

Romans 14:1-23 ESV /
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ...

I personally find it curious another will point a finger at a differing point of view (both wishing the best for the animal up to a certain point), and yet say nothing as their privacy is removed, their children are indoctrinated and we are all left (regardless of what we eat) to wade through this hell-on-earth while some choose to demand they be called a particular pronoun.

Apologies to the OP of this page, there are coherent sides to both arguments and I will not co-opt the spirit of debate, but arguments such as this where rlt47 is quite coherent in his/her argument and yet not understood in their equal wish animals be treated with decency up until their demise is dissapointing.

Perhaps Citations of how veganism is less taxing and better for the environment would be more objective?

Either way, I salute the luxury you enjoy while both people and animals suffer, and applaud the fact we can still belittle our fellow while the corporations just keep on electrocuting, over populating, manipulating and dosing animals until they are unceremoniously shoved down a chute and hung for quartering rather than treated with love and respect until their time....... BRAVO!

@leftamessage - Thank you you support and comment!

I am was in fact looking for value for the opposing view, however the more I tested the argument for substance the less tangible it became.

And taking it a step further why is it not immoral for vegans to support outlets that stock mass produce meat or meat per se depending on your definition?

Could also read:
Is it not be immoral for vegans to support stores that sell meat?

Infringing on the rights of another being in a way in which you would not like done to you or those you love. It's very simple, it's the golden rule..

Infringing on the rights of another being in a way in which you would not like done to you or those you love. It's very simple, it's the golden rule.. The like main spiritual teaching of all religions going back thousands of years. Don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to you. It's simple. Anything you wouldn't want done to you, don't do it to others.

I don't see how you are trying to apply this statement - as many religions condone meat eating.

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