[Condenser] Replace Flag Function With Downvote

in utopian-io •  15 days ago

[Condenser] Replace Flag Function With Downvote

image.png
img source


AKA: Make Downvotes Great Again

Idea:

Change flags to downvotes and make them look and feel just like upvotes in an effort to remove the stigma around using downvotes.

Summary:

Recently I made a proposal of encouraging users to use the flag (downvote) function more often. The proposal suggested burning the downvoted rewards to null instead of redistributing to the STEEM reward pool.

Another way to make downvotes great again is to remove the stigma surrounding their use. Currently, downvotes are called flags. This causes a great deal of confusion for users because flags are usually associated with reporting abuse. Users should be a lot less conservative when it comes to downvoting useless, spammy, or abusive content.

In an effort to achieve this, I have made changes to remove the flag and change to downvote that functions the same way as the upvote function.

Screenshots

Screen Shot 2018-01-02 at 8.36.26 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-01-02 at 8.36.30 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-01-02 at 8.36.37 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-01-02 at 8.37.59 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-01-02 at 8.38.05 PM.png

Files changed:

  • src/app/components/cards/PostFull.jsx
    • removed flag
  • src/app/components/cards/PostSummary.jsx
    • removed flag
  • src/app/components/elements/Voting.jsx
    • changed flag to downvote
    • removed flag dropdown
  • src/app/components/elements/Voting.scss
    • changed stylesheets to be similar to upvote

Links



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I'm personally believe that there no need in a flag function at all.

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How could we keep off illegal material?

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Why should we?

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There definitely is. The child porn and piracy on Steemit? Should we just keep it and let it be visible to all?

There should also be a way to permanently delete posts and get them off the platform.

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No. If someone can delete what he don't like it's a censorship.

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So Child Porn and pirated content shouldn't be censored and should be able to be seen by all? Gotcha.

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You can't censor "bad" things and not censor "good" things. Cos good and bad is arbitrary. In some cultures a wooman without hijab on photo considered worse than a chield porn (Mohammed has 12 y.o. wife). Do you think we must delete all womans with a bare hares?

We know what we like and what we don't. But we don't know what bad and good, cos no such things as objectively good and bad exists. So if you censoring something (anything), you just forcefully shutting up those who a weaker than you are. Censorship is a tool of tyranny.

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We will have to agree to disagree then. Some things are just inheritanly wrong (or they very well should be).

If we use your thinking, then I can justify anything 'oh, I killed him because he stepped on my toe'. It's not objectively bad....

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To kill a man is bad.
But you definetly must be allowed to say that you gonna kill a man or that you done it already. This info must not be censored. It may save that man!

And with a CP it's totally the same. It's bad to rape childrens (or any human being).
But if it's done somewhere it's good to get a world know that it's been done. So CP must be spreaded maximally if you really whant to save kids. Only reason to censor CP is if you a molester!

Remember pizzagate? Child rapists are in our government. And they give us this censorship.

It may be good to control physical aggression by force, but it's NEWER good to censor information by force. Or you will be brainwashed by touse who do it to think that CP, piracy or woman with a bare heads, or gays, or anything else are "objectively bad".

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It's good to get the word out that it's done? So more people follow the example? You know the media pushes these things right? When one psychopath sees that another person has shot a bunch of people, they can (not always, but sometimes) feel inspired to follow along. Because obviously some people 'agree' with them.

The uncensored internet (darknet) has whole rings of pedophiles who share this content. Have you ever used the darknet? You'd love it, it's totally uncensored. When this shit is shown, it creates more, hell, it even creates a market for it. Spreading it does not make it better or make more people aware, it creates a bigger problem.

It IS GOOD to censor some things. I can't believe how narrow-minded you are. I'm done with this argument.

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Okay, let me get this right.

Child porn is okay (because it's not objectively right or wrong, because nothing is). Therefore, if it isn't right or wrong it must be okay. So, that means for you, ruining a child's life (who has absolutely no control over this situation) is okay. It shouldn't be censored! After all, that's tyranny. Jeez. I'm happy most people don't think like you.

I proposed this two months ago:

Remove the flag button and add a downvote button

https://steemit.com/utopian-io/@littleboy/remove-the-flag-button-and-add-a-downvote-button

I hope this will be added to the main site soon.

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I have to agree with this idea and the above post. I wrote a comment the other day about it, but it seems that people feel emotionally attacked when they are flagged, and that is the cause for some of these flag wars.

In reality though, the flagging isn't a personal grudge (not normally anyway), but rather because someone wants to redistribute payouts, or because the content isn't beneficial to the platform. However, people tend to take this personally instead of realizing the true reason for it.

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I feel like with money involved, people would downvote galore. It's a good thing to have, but downvotes cannot have the same weight as upvotes, in my opinion. Being able to see who downvotes would be nice, though.

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You can already see who downvotes in the same way you can see upvotes.

Without downvotes, upvotes have the ability to just take money from the reward pool without anyone stopping them. Doesn't matter if it's shit content, without downvotes you can't do anything about it.

The problem is that we have a few very large voters voting for bullshit. If more of the small users would downvote it, it wouldn't matter. But since they won't, the users are taking $20k+/day in author rewards with no punishment or recourse

In my opinion the down flags are unnecessary. If the would be just for statistic, this has some sense because if post has vote from whale the reward is big, downvotes can be much more downvote but from smaller players so none will see that. If it will be works like downvote it is unnecessary.

I agree, being flagged can be a very big turn off for new users..

Why not make the slider go from -100% to +100% ?

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This is a good idea and we could get rid of the upvote and downvote alltogether and just call it voting.

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Wow that is a good idea!!!!

Even if they will be called downvotes, some people will still get angry when they will be downvoted

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Yes. Because both flagging and down-voting signifies that one has done something wrong.

And if such is not the case then all the pro-down-vote arguments revolving around being over-rewarded ring worse than hollow.

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Not true. Downvoting someone does not mean they definitely did anything wrong. It could be for many reasons.

Maybe you think their post is overvalued, maybe you think they are reporting incorrect information, maybe you just wanted to downvote someone. There is no specific reason that one must follow to downvote.

The reason it is so easy for users to abuse the upvotes is because downvotes are essentially taboo. When you use one, people get upset and belligerent. Social media should allow users to cast their votes without fear of consequences. If someone wants to downvote you because you downvoted them, that is their right.

I am getting downvotes from one users emotionally disturbed posse for making a satire post about his technical analysis. Doesn't make me lose any sleep at night. And if I want to retaliate, I would feel well within my rights to do so.

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Our perspectives on the purpose of downvotes clearly differs - which is why that which I said about down-votes seemed false to you.

It appears that we may also differ on whether there should be some kind of standard (or reason) governing the appropriate use of down-votes.

I personally feel that down-voting a post because one feels that it is overvalued (and for no other reason) constitutes abuse in its own right, just as I feel that down-voting a post because one disagrees with the context is also treading into that same territory.

Persons who agree with a post have the choice to submit their up-vote. The degree of up-vote is also their choice. In fact many choose to attribute less than 1% to their vote weight. That is fine as nobody is extolling upon them to toss their time-limited vote into one's hat.

In fact the passing comparison to a street beggar is quite appropriate to this context.

A beggar who offers a service - such as playing an instrument or shining shoes - is more likely to gain favour than the individual who is idle (not taking into consideration any pity factors such as kids or the like).

Furthermore, if you pass by a hundred beggars you are perfectly within your right to 'not' pitch your coin into their hats. However stooping to pick up a dollar from the hat of beggar because you feel that he or she has had too good of a day would... not go down well.

Likewise applies to dipping one's hand into that person's hat because you didn't like the tune that s/he was playing.

Should there be no consequence to the flippant abuse of one's ability to flag? I'd say that there should be - and I have spoken of such in the past.

Flags should be reserved for use as an educational tool correcting users who behave badly. Not a first resort, mind you, there are words and warnings for that - but for things like plagiarism, excessive foul language in comments, flaming and trolling, etc, then a flag can be a force for good for as long as it is clearly linked with the behavior that one is trying to discourage.

I am sorry to hear that you have encountered individuals who didn't appreciate your brand of satire. Quite frankly I'd consider a fair representation of such a compliment. You do not let it bother you because their behavior conforms to your idea of how down-votes should be used - as something impersonal.

I am still surprised that you are able to take that as coolly as you appear to have done - but this does indicate that you benefit from an outlook of a good degree of consistency.

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I believe the fallacy here is that you are thinking the PENDING payout on a post is that users money.

The homeless person example isn't comparable because that is most definitely his money.

Steem has a 7 day pending payout period for votes to be decided, up or down. Until then you have $0 so a downvote doesnt matter. After 7 days, you have the payout. At that point, no one can take it from you.

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I admit that when I look at rewards associated with a post - I see it as rewards that are slated for the work done on the post concerned.

I am used to seeing that carrot grow (or more often shrink) due to the way that Steem's value shifted - but to have another user diminish that carrot due to him or her feeling that the nutrients delivered to the carrot by other users was 'excessive' would ring more than a little hollow.

I am not inclined to consider this perspective a fallacy out of hand - and while I would agree that money that has been thrown into a beggar's hat differs from a share that has been slated to go the way of a post - it remains far from clear to me as to how a down-vote ofa reward - very potentially down to zero - is not to be taken as a slight against not only the would-be-beneficiary but also any individual who has up-voted the content in question.

Furthermore the 7 day payout period is a big part of the reason why Steem is currently facing a crisis concerning 'any' user appearing over-rewarded.

Surely that on-going saga has inspired support of downvoting as a solution - but the truth of the matter is that such is a short-sighted substitute for attention that really should be directed at Steemit Inc.

It is after all by virtue of, shall we call them 'oversights' that the present situation has come about - making Steemit vulnerable to celebrity siphoning.

Seeking to make it socially acceptable to use flags or down-votes to express anything less than a corrective measure would merely be enhancing the 'crabs-in-a-bucket' mentality that has been building among some within the community.

It will foul up the atmosphere - and we'll get to hear all kinds of abuse upon all levels of the Steemit ecosystem - and for all kinds of reasons - some a lot less nobel than others.

In spite of my strong emotions against the flippant use and abuse of flags, I concede that I do not yet have a long term solution in mind specifically tailored for the present situation.

As such I do believe that we are going to need to agree to disagree - our respective perspectives shared.

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I disagree that we need to agree to disagree. At least on the overall topic.

You said you don't have a long term solution at hand ... neither do I. I do have a short term proposition that I have the means and desire to implement, host, and make available.

This will provide more information for determining a long term solution down the line.

We may not find any real solution without a hard fork at this point.

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We can certainly agree that 'something' needs to be done about the current situation. :c)

Agreeing to disagree about anything is a healthy exercise that acknowledges that two standpoints each have their merits and where neither individual is particularly inclined to switch over to the other perspective.

It seems to me that your perspective is aimed towards users keeping each other in check by expending their voting power towards keeping any single user from getting over-rewarded for his or her efforts.

On the other hand I prefer to revisit the rewards foundation - to get a better idea of why content with value that is time-limited but admittedly useful to a person's followers is ultimately a lot better rewarded than posts of timeless value - and the helpfulness of which will only grow more apparent as time goes by.

A hard fork might indeed be necessary - but if such is the case then it makes sense to think through the consequences of potential fixes. A relatively recent past hard fork has had less than desirable effects from what I understand.

Nice ....Thank you for sharing this with us, Upvoted

I think this is a good idea because it will help people get rid of bad content more often. Many people don't even notice the flag or they see the flag and they think it's just for inappropriate or offencive post. So the down vote button will be more handy.

Good good..
Pleace vote me

You read my mind. But down voting may also still put a target on a user's back - which is still a bit scary to do.

upvoted......follow & upvote steemit family

interesting post..sign to achieve in all parts of your post. this can add my insights and other steemit users ... I like .. thank you for posting.

I like the thumbs down POTUS image. President Thump!

Downald Thump (-:

Nice idea. Fully supported.

True it should be implemented

very interesting
I have upvote
teach me steemit to write the right and interesting
thank you

Lol, the image looks like Donald Trump :D Good job on that ^^

I support this 🙂

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Couldn’t agree more. Getting flagged feels more personal than getting downvoted.

Perhaps a lot of the back biting could be alleviated if down votes were allowed to be given in anonymous fashion. This would remove retaliatory strikes and would solve 90 percent of the BS going on right now.

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Anonymous votes might also be a wise thing to implement

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Maybe, but that would prevent the ability to see abusive self voting practices

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Self voting is not necessarily abusive.

I self vote for my posts because I spend time writing and creating the content and feel it deserves my vote. I also vote for an entire community of developers.

I could easily delegate to another account and have that vote for me if I wanted to be tricky.

I could send money to bittrex and buy delegated steem from blocktrades to a random account if I wanted. There are ALWAYS ways to game the system.

Self votes are not immediately abuse.

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I am speaking of abusive self voting.. upvoting yourself 100 SBD on each article comment etc. or abusive up voting of other accounts by a single account.. not minnow upvoting. There needs to be a way to track if someone is gaming the system so to speak, that was the point I was making. Here have .03 cents :)... This is proper up voting, you interacted, I liked what you had to say so I up voted you. Now if I went through here an up voted all my own comments with my powerful .03 then that would be abusive regardless of value, a point exacerbated relative to a users wealth.

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Absolutely.

That is why this entire situation is very hard to police. Is my vote more abuse than your vote? That all depends on the persons point of view relative to their circumstances.

That's why I think we should encourage downvotes from everyone. If 10000 minnows downvote an article that earns $500, one whale would be challenged to retaliate.

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I agree and have written articles to that end as well.. Feel free to read..

https://steemit.com/steemcleaners/@pawsdog/steemcleaners-useful-fallacy-or-wasted-effort

https://steemit.com/steemit/@pawsdog/steemians-need-to-downvote-more

While I do think that it would be more difficult to retaliate against 1000 users it is hard to get 1000 users to downvote or get any users to downvote in the lower levels for fear of retaliation which I why I think anonymity would be good idea. I likewise think that we should keep a "flag" for illicit or illegal content and have a simple thumbs up or down for the article next to each other below the article and with equal weight.

At current I believe there lies a stigma to down voting someone as you come of like a jerk, or you put yourself on the radar for them to come after you etc.

As to whose vote is more abusive, I believe that is subjective. I think your 4 dollar vote is mehh.. if you upvote your own articles and original content, or if you split it with other users as well (as you have done.. thank you).. However if you just start posting thank you to every comment and upvoting it hundreds of times, it would be abusive. Much likely lies with intent and the outward perception of your actions. To use the legal standard of "would a reasonable person" assume the actions to have intent to defraud the system behind them.

As always one person can bring the issue up and if it is viewed as gaming the system then the community engages in flag wars or negative reinforcement until the problem is rectified. Luckily we are in BETA and hopefully a solution can be implemented to address these critical issues.

Lastly with the rampant use of bots, retaliation against a large number of users would not be that difficult for someone with sufficient SP.

Good idea.All we need to do is just spread the idea across the whole Steemit platform so people can notice it and give their opinion on the suggestion. I honestly wouldn't mind this change.

Keep up the good work and I'm looking forward to your next posts.

Hey @netuoso I am @utopian-io. I have just upvoted you!

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Great job! Super excited by this... Steem needs a bit of self-policing to stop all the craziness.

Would be nice that if downvoted by a whale one time, would not ruin your ranking. And there should be a downvote limit per account each hour.

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There is a limit. Its voting power. If you keep downvoting it is weaker and weaker every time.

Absolutely. I've always wondered why flags weren't just downvotes

I really like this idea. Just had my first encounter with a person stealing content from a youtube user I know and was confused by flag and actually wished for a downvote button.

I am talking about these 3 posts:
https://steemit.com/garten/@mabasso/bonsai-punica-granatum-nana-rueckschnitt-wurzelschnitt-und-umpflanzen

https://steemit.com/gardening/@mabasso/wir-zeigen-das-man-karnivoren-duengen-kann-man-karnivoren

https://steemit.com/garten/@mabasso/thripse-an-zierpflanzen-behandeln-neem-auch-gegen-andere-saugende-insekten-an-pflanzen

I am new at steemit and angry about this person faking to be Detlef, but also angry about me, that I was so happy to have Detlef here, because I like his way to publish about indoor plants.

What else, other than flaging and commenting my dislike can I do to fight plagiathy?