#ToVeganOrNot - Explain Why You DO or DO NOT Eat Dead Animals & "Animal Products" (Comment Contest: 20+ STEEM in Prizes)

in toveganornot •  28 days ago

Good morning all of you beautiful humans!

I'm coming at you today from a magical little piece of forest near the Oregon coast, and I don't plan on spending nearly as much time online today as I often do, so I thought I'd finally fire off this little contest I've been sitting on.

One of my favorite things about Steemit since first coming here has been how open, honest, and constructive the conversations can be (at least what I've observed for the most part [and as long as you're staying away from topics where folks have money involved]).

I decided it would be fun to open up a little contest, help create exposure for some folks, distribute some rewards, and push, test, and question my own thoughts & understandings. No better way to find increased clarity around something than to get a bunch of intelligent, thoughtful humans to discuss it.



Your Challenge

The idea here is simple, though you can certainly expand out if you would like.

I am asking you to defend/explain why you do or do not participate & believe in the ownership, subjugation, and murder of animals for the feeding of humans. As far as I see things, there are 4 main facets of this argument, so please address at least one of them specifically, if not all four:

  • Morality (Is it moral to kill when it's not necessary to survive/thrive?)
  • Health (Which diet is better for the human body?)
  • Environment (Which diet has a lower negative impact on biodiversity, water quality, and air pollution?)
  • Economic (Where is our money going, who are we supporting?)

It doesn't matter which side of the argument you are on, the goal is to see the best logical & moral points from both sides, so that all of us can be making a more informed, conscious decision. To help demonstrate this, I'm splitting the prizes between both sides.



How To Enter

  1. Up-vote & Re-Steem this post
  2. Write a 250+ word comment below explaining your stance. (The cut-off will be the payout time of this post)
  3. If you would also like to go in-depth & create your own full post on the top, you are welcomed & encouraged to do so. If you do so, please tag it #toveganornot, and remember that your post should be in addition to the comment on this post.
  4. Enjoy the conversation, and up-vote the comments you find the most value in.


Who Wins

I will be selecting the winners myself, and I will be looking at the number of votes each comment has received and taking that into account in my selection process as well.

The judging will not be highly focused on grammar/spelling/etc, but it will be a factor. If I can't read what you said or understand what you meant, it's not going to win.

The judging will be most focused on logical consistency, fact-based arguments, and explaining things calmly. Clear, open communication is the key here folks!



Prize Structure

  • I'm starting the prize pool with 20 STEEM, do be distributed like so:
    • 5 STEEM to the #1 best response
    • 2.5 STEEM each to the next 3 best pro-vegan arguments and the next 3 best anti-vegan arguments
  • After the contest ends (when this post pays out), I will make a follow up post, featuring the best responses here (as many as there are), and split the liquid payout of that post evenly among all of those who were chosen.
  • All responses that are clear, thought-out, and on topic will receive a 1% upvote from @TribeSteemUp (worth ~$.50)

Conclusion

Remember folks, this is meant to be a peaceful, logical, friendly conversation. If I see you jumping in yelling at someone, using ad hominems, or otherwise trying to stir up trouble or being disrespectful, I will not hesitate to flag your comment(s).

Thanks for reading everyone; I hope to read your thoughts below!


Image Sources

Vegan or Not
Mission
Winner
Prizes



TSU

If you enjoyed this, you may enjoy some of these highlights of my blog:

"Greatest Hits/Table of Contents" of my first 2 years on Steemit

You've Created Your Steemit Account and You're Ready to Get Started... What Now? [New Steemians Start-Up Guide]

The 8 Pillars of @TribeSteemUp: Clarification, Refinement, and Re-Casting the Spell

The Status, Vision, and Needs of Real Life: The Role-Playing Game

Be Empowered Official Announcement & Website Launch - 3 Days of Steem-Powered, Holistic Empowerment



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A great question to ask Kenny, nice one! Most people don't really understand or want to understand much of the reasoning behind a vegetarian or vegan diet.. I'm happy to contribute as i have a thing or two to say! I grew up eating meat, and almost no vegetables. Since 25 years im mostly vegetarian after discovering how to cook using spices and visiting India for the first time.

Morality (Is it moral to kill when it's not necessary to survive/thrive?)
This question is well put. There is a HUGE difference between eating ethically sourced meat once in a while or eating 'tortured' meat with every meal.

I eat meat once in a while, or when im ill i often like chicken soup. When i buy meat i always buy the most ethical brand I can find and also buy local meat when possible. I consider that OK morally.

All of life is about birth and death. Most animals kill to survive, and the deeper question looms as to whether it is any more acceptable to kill a plant than an animal?! Life is life, and some people do seriously ask this question. I think to be 100% morally perfect we should only eat the parts of plants that have been designed to be eaten.. like animals do.. without killing the whole plant. Examples are most vegetables such as pumpkin, cucumber, lettuce etc.. and all fruits.

Health (Which diet is better for the human body?)
I have studied this and learned a few intersting things about our digestive system and how it handles meat. Our stomach has different enzymes and chemicals needed to digest meat or vegetables, and our intestines are very long indeed compared to true carnivores like dogs. This is because our intestines are primarily designed to digest vegetables over longer periods of time. Many people have several kilos of undigested rotting meat in their intestines because they eat too much of it. We are actually not designed to eat a mostly meat diet! Our canines are pretty lame compare to a dog, and most of our teeth are dedicated to grinding food as we do when we eat vegetables.

Also, due to bio-accumulation, toxins and hormone mimicking chemicals are at much higher concentrations than found in vegetables.. especially in fish! One animal eats so many vegetables, and the toxins get stored and build up in the animal fats that people eat.

It's well accepted that eating a balanced Vegetarian based diet is much better for your health and vegetarians generally have a lower risk of developing high blood pressure, several forms of cancer, heart disease, diabetes and obesity because these diets are usually lower in fat and higher in fiber.

Environment (Which diet has a lower negative impact on biodiversity, water quality, and air pollution?)
It is fair to say that there is NO comparison when looking at which diet has less impact on the environment. The list is extremely long and concerning when you compare the two! For instance, a single pound of beef takes, on average, 1,800 gallons of water to produce. Compare that to 22 gallons for the same weight of Tomatoes! Water is a HUGE issue globally and meat production is a big part of the problem!

There are many more points to make on this, almost too many to discuss them all! Global Warming is our great threat, and the methane produced by centralised mass scale animal farming is a big part of the global warming problem. Methane is around 30 times more toxic as a global warming gas than CO2! The entire industry is responsible for at least 20% of global warming effects. If you take into account the amount of deforestation taking place to accommodate livestock, this figure is actually much more. We are clearing land and forests and losing our biodiversity at an astonishing rate...

Economic (Where is our money going, who are we supporting?)
I don't know a lot about this, and so to put something more positive into the mix I would like to say that some of the biggest USA meat producers are now putting significant money into developing lab grown meat. This new type of very ethical meat is soon to hit our shelves, and in my opinion might be the way forward for most of the world who refuse to give up meat. This new type of meat deals with most of the issues around environmental and pollution concerns, but not health!

I believe when you eat animals from your own ecosystem there are benefits. I am from Alaska and there are places that without the fish the Native culture would they die or become very sick. The energies from eating farm raised animals is different than wild and that has an impact on the person eating it. Cage something up, feed it gmo pesticide ridden food, and think of it with no regards....It will be no good for anyone who consumes that.

It is a belief when you hunt/fish just like when you wild craft you must think of nature first. Take only what you need and use everypart of what you take. The animal or plant will sacrifice it's self and in return you must take the most care of your environment.

It is really an argument for both sides. If you have no access to local wild, fresh, SUSTAINABLE meat then being vegan is probably a better choice. If you do have access to wild meat it can be beneficial for you and your environment; such as when you holistic fish as I call it when you fish an invasive species of a lake to let the natural fish and wild life recoop.

Really this whole topic gets be thinking about the terrible ways veggies are grown and the need for holistic farming or permaculture as well. However what are people going to eat now if the vegetables too are bad? Just my thoughts. Good vibes to all!

Of course, there is a lot of reasons why I don't eat meat. But main one is spiritual...

To me best quality someone can have is virtue of looking thru eyes of another. When you have that perception, you can imagine what would that someone else go thru if you hurt him. With that spiritual (heart) knowledge, you can't even imagine hurting them.

When you look thru eyes of another, you can't even different yourself from that another. That imply on any creature, not only humans. In the end we are all one consciousness anyway. You can have experience of human, other consciousness can have experience of some other creature, but only difference is vehicle which you have right now. Spirit in everyone is the same in the end because we are all one.

Also I don't feel some higher intelligence full of love would create world in which we should eat each other causing fear and suffering. Someone full of love just wouldn't create that. I feel this world/reality is creation/manipulation of some energies who want constant creation of fear and suffering. Eating meat is causing exactly that! If you don't want to cause fear and suffering, don't do what causes that. Is simple as that.

There is also spiritual/health reason I don't eat meat...

When I practice deep meditation, my body is sending me signals that it want to eat the most lightest food possible, which are juices. Because everything vibrate, in my opinion food you take in your body can help you to be more in tuned to higher vibrations. I would call meat and dairy low vibration products because they are based on fear and suffering.

It is not coincidence that people who want to spiritually uplift themselves usually give up on meat and dairy almost by reflex action. In my opinion the reason is not only spiritual, it is also their body signaling them that if they want to go to higher vibration state, they must do same base for the body by taking food that would help achieving higher vibrations more easily.

P.S.
In day or two had plan to make post about this. Will definitely because I want to expand more about this...

Love this initiative!

Peace & Love.

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beautiful answer <3 ommm

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Thanks, Alex! 🙂 ❤️

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One of my favourite cartoons 🕉

Great question, @kennyskitchen!

I've touched on this before, and I will do a full post about it it, but in brief, I think there are positives and negatives on both sides.

I have tended to eat a primarily vegetarian diet for most of my adult life, and I'm the soup queen, as soups are one of those things I make particularly well. I could pretty much live on soup, frequently all but do, and a lot of the soups I make are indeed vegan.

But I am not vegan, or truly vegetarian, and likely never will be, because after a period of not eating meat. my health starts to deteriorate. If I ignore it, which I have often done, I will start literally craving meat, and I very rarely get true cravings of any kind.

I've learned the hard way not to ignore those cravings, or I'll wind up ill for real, sometimes seriously. I evidently require a certain amount of meat, and it can be a small amount, in order to properly process the rest of the nutrients I am taking in. Without it, my immune system takes a lunch, which is clearly not a good thing.

One thing I've learned over time is that those of us with O blood types don't typically make good vegetarians. I have a LOT of vegetarian friends, which is why I developed a number of go to vegan recipes. Damned few of them, at least those who are able to remain vegan long term, have O blood types.

I met an evolutionary biologist several years back, and he explained that this is because O negative is the oldest human blood type, which is also why we are the universal blood donors. Evidently there is something in our physical chemistry that makes us incapable of successfully making the switch to a strict vegan diet; much like cats, which will sicken and die if kept on a strictly vegan diet.

Thankfully we are not obligate carnivores, but speaking strictly for myself, if I want to become seriously ill, becoming strictly vegan would get me there pretty quickly. So, far preferring good health, I do eat some animal products, including organic milk that I typically make into kefir, eggs from our chickens and ducks, and occasional fish, poultry and meat, grassfed when possible.

So this is the tip of the iceberg version, which I will expand into a full post, hopefully tomorrow. Lots more to say on both sides of the issue. ;-)

Addiction

I began my vegan journey as a simple challenge to myself. It was New Year's Eve, 2015, and I wanted to explore which things I was truly addicted to. I decided that for each month of the year, I would give up one element of my diet or lifestyle that was a normal part of my routine. I decided to start with animal products. (February was the month for giving up dessert and I failed within 2 weeks.)

I had many friends who were already vegan or vegetarian, so I had solid models of how to eat without animal. The question was could I do it?

Side Effects of Veganism

As it turned out, I was easily able to ditch animal products. I immediately lost 5 pounds, which was nice, but I also had fewer headaches. I felt better in my skin in a way which is tough to define. My hair felt softer, and by now I call it Mermaid Hair.

As I continued throughout the month, and learned more about the way critters are treated, particularly here in the States, I decided that I no longer wanted to support that system with my dollars. I gave up animal on a whim, but I've left it out after conscious consideration of how it made me feel personally and the impact I believe my choice has on the way society treats animals.

Implications

Hopefully, by choosing not to use animal products, my small statement will ripple throughout my spheres of influence, spreading to the world at large and joining with the rest of us who choose to do the same.

There are many who see vegetarians as people obsessed with health. However, being vegetarians (or vegans) is another form of respect for Nature, and also a way of respect for others, especially in a world where so many people suffer from HUNGER, so hungry that many die every day for this cause. In short, being vegetarian or vegan is a way to contribute to a cleaner and fairer world. Nor is it necessary to be a strict vegetarian. It's about knowing the reasons for vegetarianism and then choosing freely.

The problem of the production and consumption of meat is of such dimension that it is included among the five very simple things that are greatly improving the world.

A strict vegetarian or vegan diet may not be a complete diet, especially in growing age, if it is done without knowledge. The good vegetarian eats a great variety of foods, and admits foods of animal origin whenever it has not been necessary to kill the animal, especially eggs and dairy products (milk, cheese, yogurt ...). Veganism does not admit any food of animal origin (and almost always animal products for other uses: dressing, decoration ...). On the other hand, it is not uncommon to be vegetarian with an occasional consumption of meat or fish, because vegetarianism is not a religion nor has rigid precepts to fulfill (this is recently known as flexitarianism).

1. For HEALTH

Eating meat in excess is bad for your health. All doctors and food experts advise a diet based more on fruit, vegetables and cereals than on meat and, among the meat, the best is poultry meat, due to its low fat.

2. Produce meat excess pollution

Our appetite for animal products is erasing our forests, dirtying our waters, polluting the air, devouring our natural resources and decimating our lands.

3. Meat is a luxury, in a HUNGRY world

The exact data little matter, when approximately 20% of humanity access daily to 40% more of the NECESSARY food, while 40% of humanity is not very healthy because it ingests 10% less than necessary daily.

4. The abusive consumption of meat entails MALTREAT the animals

For meat, fish or milk to be cheap products, animals are mistreated (overcrowded at least), over medicated, unnaturally fed and artificially fattened, but there is more: castration, separation the mother and her offspring, the rupture of herds, the brand, beatings, the trauma of transport ... This is a common practice in industrialized countries, because what is important is to produce a lot, regardless of quality.

The final question is not whether we want to be strict vegetarians, but whether we are capable of feeling responsible for the global influence of our actions and acting accordingly with such simple acts as REDUCING OUR MEAT AND FISH CONSUMPTION.

I changed my mind about eating meat after watching a documentary about the food industry. To know that they torture animals just to make money was enough for me to take a decision in the same hour. I cant imagine having a tortured dead chicken on my table and wont enjoy eating it.

I got to know that eating vegetables and fruits is more healthier than eating meat. I could replace meat with other healthy choices and get enough vitamins for my body. I felt more energetic, healthy and active. I could wake up early in the morning and sleep late at night without any alarm. My face was glowing and all my friends noticed that.

I ate meat all my life, but could give it up in no time. After some weeks I started seeing as the most disgusting food, mostly when I see it raw in the supermarkets. There is no guarantee of getting fresh healthy meat of an animal that was not tortured in the process, so why eat it!

I choose my food very careful when I go to restaurants, even it can be sometimes very difficult, mostly when you live in places where the idea of being vegetarian is still a bit weird. I buy only fresh fruits and vegetables. I still have problems with replacing milk and cheese , but still trying hard :)

Thank you for this nice opportunity :)

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Your effort is great. But I must say animals used for meat or any dairy go thru same torture, so there is no difference in that. You don't need milk from another species. Only milk you need was from your mom. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince you in anything and I'm not trying to you feel bad, but really there is no difference in abuse. Maybe even more abusing is milking the cow because cow must be pregnant to produce milk, and for that it must be raped again and again after giving birth her baby. Killing is "only" one time thing, milking the cow continue all the time...

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A cow does not need to be raped in order to produce Milk.
Moreover, cows are able to continue being milked for several years after giving birth to their calves. I know people within the Krishna Consciousness society both here and abroad that do not engage in any of the standard industry practices in milking cows and it's factually wrong and ill informed to proclaim they are partaking in animal cruelty by milking cows.

See Ahimsa farms

The only question morally speaking is whether the interaction is consensual. If a cow does not want to be milked or worked on a farm, it would object to this through it's behavior. Anyone that is not emotionally retarded is able to observe this and thus forcing the cow to engage in the said activity would then be immoral.

There is nothing inherently wrong however with having a symbiotic relationship with an animal where you both benefit and the interaction is consensual. In using their manure, in benefiting from working sheep dogs, snow dogs, using eggs from backyard chickens when their eggs would otherwise go to waste, or milking a cow once you remove the violence and ensure they are being looked after. To imply so has more to do with being in line with the dogmatic views of an ideology than to eliminate suffering.

Let's not forget that we are all complicit to varying degrees in our support of animal agriculture but the question is where one draws the line.
Being Vegan you are NOT removing yourself from all exploitation and violence, however are striving to do so.
This is evident in the taxation system which in most countries subsidizes the cost of meat and dairy and there are a plethora of other examples.
It may be humbling as a Vegan to bear in mind that there are branches within Vegetarianism e.g. Jainism and Fruitarianism that take the virtue of NonViolence/Ahimsa further than Veganism.

It would be just as valid for these groups to maintain that being a Vegan is hypocritical and is not going far enough. Moro-ever whereas obtaining animal bi-products often
requires violence to be perpetrated on these animals within the dairy and egg industry, it does NOT require one to do so.
This is evident in backyard-eggs, and farmers that treat their cows as family members, abstaining from industry standards like the rape of cows, separation of calves from their mothers
and the shipping of these cows to slaughter.

The 'current' definition of Veganism is rooted in Marxist ideas e.g. commodification and exploitation which are philosophically flawed. The original meaning of Vegan, coined originally from one of the readers of Donald Watson's newsletter, simply meant Non-Dairy, Non-Egg eating Vegetarians. The philosophy around Veganism was later codified by the Vegan Society and over several years morphed into the obfuscated definition we now have around abstaining from exploitation and commodification.

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I still don't understand why people think you need milk from another species?

I'm gonna be 32 years old soon, not consuming meat, dairy or any animal products for over 10 years. Didn't go to my doctor for over 15 years and I feel perfectly fine. I even never get sick from season flu.

Saying all this because my opinion is that we don't need milk from another species. I don't know why people use milk at all? What are benefits we can live without? I think most of people just have belief they must drink milk or their bones will get weak or something bad will happen to them.

About Krishna Consciousness society...

They maybe have good intentions, but still they are holding animals in cage when they want to. They do with them what ever they want to. Only freedom for those animals would be to letting them free and building shelter for them in which they can return when they want to. Someone could say this cows don't seem to mind the life they live. That is because they don't know there can be more freedom. If we give them more freedom, they would wonder around on fields and wouldn't choose to be in cage.

Being Vegan you are NOT removing yourself from all exploitation and violence, however are striving to do so.
This is evident in the taxation system which in most countries subsidizes the cost of meat and dairy and there are a plethora of other examples.

Taxation system is fraud anyway. Don't know what that got to do with being vegan?

I would add up that being vegan is not enough. If everyone went vegan without producing any food, that would create same situation what we have now. That is massive production of food for people who don't produce food at all living mostly in cities. (In my opinion big cities are completely wrong organized). For those who produce food on massive scale it is usually more easy to use some kind of poisons to be able to produce food on massive scale. Yes, these are more ecological ways, but it is mostly easier way with poisons like pesticides etc.

So being vegan without producing food is not enough. We must build society where there wouldn't be need to big farming. In my opinion, one of first things we must do is dismantle big cities they are today. Too much concrete, too less nature and food we can eat.

Anyone who grow some food know that it is not so hard to grow tomato's, potato's and other vegetables. If most of people do that, it will more easy...

In the end I think it is easy to be "perfect" vegan where you will ecologically produce food and exchange it with others who also don't harm anyone in production of food. Then you couldn't call those people hypocritical or whatever. But again, there gonna be always people who will try to justify killing of animals by pointing at vegang with absurd claims. Just few days ago, one guy on Facebook were trying to convince me that killing of lamb is same like picking apple from the tree. He also said that potato's have feeling also. Wtf are those people talking about? Do they even hear themselves? Yes, I know they are only trying to justify their meat eating habits, but still can't believe someone can compare killing of living being with picking apple for tree, apple that is meant to be picked up from tree.

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You are absolutely right in everything you said. I reduced consuming milk in the last years and was buying baby powder milk from pharmacy from time to time. Lately I started making coconut and almond milk at home and need to stay that way. I used to drink milk 2 - 3 times per day all my life. Now maybe twice a week, but I think almond milk is good and healthier.
I wished people could be aware of what we are doing to animals and to the planet itself :(

Hey man, great contest. An excellent way to create awareness and learn what people trully believes. I'm pro vegan and the reasons keep growing every day.

  1. I don't want to support murder, torture, rape, slavery and such. All comitted to our brother animals.
  2. I dont wanna support the hunger of people. Do you know that if we just fed the people the grains used to fed the animals there'll be no hunger in the world? This feeding the cows so that the rich can eat richer and the poor die of hunger is, to me, terrorism.
  3. I don't wanna support the deforestation of the world due to animal farming. Weare killing the land that support us. Also we have extinguish almost all wildlife.
  4. Health. This is just a benefit of doing well. Since I'm vegan I have more energy and feel happier. Becoming vegan means you will avoid most of the sickness beating the population today. Wanna beat cancer? Go Vegan.

Reasons to go V are many, I used to eat lost of meat and dairy products, so I completely understand the addiction of carnivorse. But a big change is needed to save life in this Beatiful planet. Once you realize that you are addicted and should stop for the better, you do it happily.

Cheers!

To vegan or not to vegan, that is the question
whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous animal cruelty or to end it all with kindness and love. :)

By what right, do we kill and eat animals?

Thanks for this question, @kennyskitchen , the timing is interesting since I only stopped eating dead animals about a month ago. To address the topic, the first question I have to ask myself is do I have a right to kill any living creature.

I can think of nothing that gives me the right. But knowing right from wrong is no guarantee that a person will do the right thing.

There were two things that tipped the scale for me:

  1. My health. It's illogical to me to eat things that are unhealthy. Meat is acidic, gives your body an acidic ph which is the preferred environment for disease. That's what you get for doing something unnatural I guess.
    Knowing that didn't stop me though.
    But I've been feeling bloated and sluggish lately, not a good feeling. I feel so much better now after just a few weeks not eating meat. I can tell you that I move much better, much lighter on my feet. Yesterday, my wife thought my footsteps belonged to our son so it's not just my imagination. I expect this to only get better.

  2. When I look into an animals eyes, I see someone in there, whatever you want to call it, it has feelings, expresses the same basic emotions that I do. I feel love for them. I talk to them every chance I get, whether it's a bird or a rabbit, or a baby deer, I'm touched by them.

I believe our consumption of meat is part of the perversion that "The Masters of The Universe", have inflicted upon mankind.

The greatest threat to their continued exploitation of humanity, is our solidarity, our harmony with one another and the planet as a whole.

It stands to reason that unnatural actions will have unnatural consequences. Farming animals to supply everyone with meat is not natural and since everything is connected, the negative impact of perverting nature is far reaching.

Specifically, I don't know where the money's going but I know without researching where it's not going and that's to anyone who gives a damn about their fellow human.

So you know where I am coming from, I was either lacto-ovo vegetarian or vegan for over a decade. I am not now.
I was told by a dietician that I knew more about vegan nutrition than she did, so to be clear it's not because I didn't know what I was doing. But I would get into arguments with my doctor about it all the time - I'm sure you too have had approximately 9,873 people tell you you "need more protein." Even when I kept a food log my doctor would wave me off and insist.
Well, after years of arguing about it, I agreed to try being pescatarian; if it helped my health issues, or not, I could at least say I had tried, right?
I started feeling better immediately regarding certain symptoms. Logically, I didn't understand it because I paid attention to my macros and vitamins and supplemented B12 and all that. My IBS symptoms drastically diminished, and I lost six sizes - from eating animal products (not just pescatarian anymore). I did more research and came across various new nutrition studies, which essentially say there is no one size fits all diet and your ancestral diet has a lot to do with what your body does well on.
Fast forward several months, and I finally saw an allergist and had lots of allergy testing done. AHA. I'm allergic to most of what's in the supermarket, and all of my veg staples. I could not be veg and avoid my allergens. The list is a mile long; I would literally die of malnutrition or an allergic reaction (those get worse with greater exposure). It's easier to ask me what I'm not allergic to (animal products, black (only black) beans, onions, sweet potatoes, white (not brown) rice, tomatoes, coffee, cocoa, cane sugar, ginger, apples, various spices, uh... peppers, cherries, tapioca ...I'm scraping the barrel here. Not a lot). Technically all wheat should be off the menu, but I rash if I eat whole wheat and don't if I eat white flour, so I cheat and eat white flour some.
It's possible that I am having a reaction there that I don't realize, though: I laid off most soy before I even found out I was allergic, because I read about the cancer connection, right. After doing that, for the first time in my adult life, my thyroid levels were normal, and my endometriosis pain went way down. Another thing I didn't realize: potatoes and green leafies trigger horrible digestive upset. I had been told I had IBS; yeah, if I avoid potato and green leafies, most of that goes away. Other foods now swell my throat and mouth (knock on wood, never had full anaphylaxis yet), that seven years ago I ate just fine. I had no food allergies as a kid; this started in adulthood.
So compassion has to include ourselves. It is necessary for some of us to eat animal products.
That being said, I'm not a carnivore. A big serving of meat to me is about two ounces. I don't eat more than that at once. I probably eat about a pound of meat per month, give or take. The major staple of my diet now is dairy products. My ancestry is Celtic and northern Native American; ironically, a lot of my safe foods align with what they might have eaten, too. Dairy is a very Celtic thing. 😁
I do my best to get the most ethical products I can, like I do in all areas of my life. But even vegans aren't deathless: every pest killed on the farm, the oil in the pleather shoes, the manufacture and distribution of everything we own; it's impossible to live without harm. I think if we all do what we can, where we can, and realize that systemic, societal change makes a bigger difference (whether we're talking weaning ourselves off oil or abolishing factory farms or what), then we'll all be better off - the world, and our psyche.

Eating meat or not and its benefits for health and the environment, have always been the subject of discussion between vegans and non-vegans, for me eating meat is a natural act where as always the human being only thinks about their basic needs, but I have always considered these points. If we stop eating meat all of humanity, how could the growth of the animal population be controlled? It is true that there is a lot of human cruelty towards animals, but perhaps, would we have the tools to prevent a certain species from reproducing in such a way that we can not feed them or end up with the plant resources that humans are supposed to consume? I think there should be a middle point where it is taken into account that the fact that there are humans and animals in the ecosystem and that the need for their interaction between them is as necessary as the existence of vegans and non-vegans. For me this is the natural balance, then, if we were all non-vegan and nature would not have the ability to reproduce as many species as we consume given the population growth, and if we were all vegan then it would be nature who would not support having to support so many species.
As we can see, it will always be the nature that is affected, so there must always be the breaking point in each organization.
I believe that the existence of vegans and non-vegans is an existential natural order where we must respect each other's way of thinking, because both have their reasons for being.

To vegan or Not to Vegan?

Morality is what differs proper from improper intention/ decisions / actions.

Living life Humanely instead would be no need to take into consideration each ones morals. Being sensible at every giving moment will able us all to live in harmony, and peacefully. At the time being I see no difference between eating fish, dog, cat, snakes, another human, a cow, etc.
Humans are animals, and all animals are living beings. Every single living being is in a life's journey. Don't see right or wrong about being vegan or not to vegan.
All I know is from my personal experience, at the moment I began living life humanely, eating meat is not an option!
I high recommend everyone to dig deeper in how to live life humanely.

Health is a very complex subject and is influenced by a few factors, such as: where and with who do you live; climate; your body constitution; your mindset; your diet; your level of awareness; your connection with prana (life force), etc

Focusing on the question asked: I am aware of population who live in extreme weather conditions and have very little options so I would strongly advice to explore all the other factors that influence your health and leave your diet for last. When you have a clear understanding of how the environment that surrounds you effects you, then explore what is seasonal and local whole fresh foods, be in sink with nature.
Plant base diet, sattvic it nourishes my all being, but we are all different and each ones diet will be different.

Environment is affected with everyone's daily choices.

Local, seasonal, growing our own food, permaculture, biodynamic, communities, sharing, exchanging, living with nature instead of against are all solutions to reverse the huge imbalance we are causing.

Economy is a delusion, the famous Pyramid.

Society is modern slavery.
Mass are programmed to study, then get a job, a house, a car, a tv, and have children! You get bombarde with information mainly negative from the media! Most of your wages will be to pay bills, house, car, insurances, clothing, medical care, food, and with luck you get to save some of that so called money! We get loans and credit cards to purchase our material desires, and bla bla bla. Is power power power and power so called quality of life… Is that it? When depression, confusion, conflict, fears, anxieties, health problems are taking over.
Wisdom, connection, getting to know your own being, the basics of life are dismissed.
I am slowly moving towards a off grid lifestyle, living auto sustainably, in communities where I hope money is not a thing but instead exchange, share, wisdom, love, compassion are the key components to live in sink with life.

Thank you so much @kennyskitchen, for the opportunity to speak out and share with you all. Cannot wait to read all entries.
love light and blessings.

I find this question so interesting and I'm super glad you're asking us to discuss it in your kitchen Kenny :)

So I became conscious of how much meat I was eating roughly 4 years ago and realized this was quite excessive. I did not eat many vegetables and ate way too many processed carbs and meats.

I quit all meat at 19 and became pescetarian which has more or less been my default diet for the last 4 years. So these are my thoughts on the topic

TO VEGAN OR NOT TO VEGAN?

Morality:

  • Honestly this to me is the biggest problem with consuming animal products is the lack of intimacy and connection between the meat of the animal and the person eating it. I think the idea of grinding cattle down to mince and selling 150g of shredded meat which is actually recombined pieces of tens if not hundreds of cows is sickening. It just seems like having unprotected sex with lots of partners, it's just not clean and I think it has a negative effect on our aura because I believe we do ingest the emotional/auric/etheric energy of what we ingest. It creates unnecessary clutter as it's just filled with toxins and other unhealthy molecules resulting from the carelessness of the operation.
  • However I'm specifically skeptical of factory farming and the idea of buying meat in a super-market. Actually the idea of eating animals caught in the wild, or even raising and butchering our own animals does seem like it could be very beneficial. I think the difference comes from offering a full, good life to an animal, and then when it gets sick or starts getting old, giving it an honorable death and making good use of its body. Personally, I don't know that I would need or feel the desire to do this, but I at least appreciate it. I've always maintained I'm okay with eating meat, I just don't believe killing an animal should be taken as lightly as picking up some meat at a supermarket. We outsource the inhumanity out and are alleviated of the responsibility of our choices, but it's all illusion. I think if I had to slit a throat, eating beef or lamb once or twice a year would be more than enough. I wouldn't do it every day, and so that's also how I eat meat. Once in a blue moon, when it is a really special piece of meat.

Health:

  • Now here is something I'm curious about because there is this supposedly pseudo-scientific "Japanese" theory that says that much of our dietary needs are determined by our blood-type. Now I don't know if this is true but what I have noticed is that all of my O blood type friends are very carnivorous and they have a metabolism that really can handle big quantities of red meat, whereas I (an AB) simply can't handle one/fifth the amount. I have a friend of mine who is blood-type O, he can lift 200+ kg in a dead-lift and digest 500g of beef in 30 minutes. Now if I ate 500g of beef at any given point I would be knocked unconscious and be sitting on a toilet for 36 hours trying to move what would feel like a steel cannon ball through my bowels. So far as I can tell, depending on whether A, B or AB (and a whole host of other genetic and epigenetic factors no doubt), our optimal sources of nutrition for fats and proteins can vary a lot. For some of us, we may really need quite a bit of fish, dairy or eggs. For others, legumes, nuts and seeds may do the trick. I'm not entirely sure, but I do believe there is a way of eating protein that puts no strain on the body. I just believe that despite the hype of "eating vegan", the vast majority of us do not have access to the kinds of foods that would really constitute a super vegan diet.
  • I think plant-based proteins are actually really healthy and abundant but one really needs to eat a much more varied and balanced diet in order to reap the optimal benefits of a plant-based diet. The reason why it is much simpler to eat animal products (in some cases) is because the nutrition gets carried up the trophic levels.

Environment:

  • Well this one is probably the biggest no brainer. Monocrop intensive agriculture like it is practiced today is mainly to feed the earth's incredibly large population of stock animals. We definitely do not need this, it is literally bad for the planet in every way imaginable. So whatever we do, we should stop buying meat at the super-market, pure and simple. If we want some, it's best to get it from a local farmer's market, preferably from a farmer who raises his own animals.

Economics:

  • To be frank I perceive veganism is a very positive light, I wouldn't be surprised that increasingly more and more humans could thrive on an entirely plant-based diet, especially as we reconnect with the earth and discover all of these lost or forgotten super foods and super plants with incredible healing properties. Veganism seems like a kind of purification phase for a lot of people. I'm not entirely sure we don't decide eating bugs, or eggs, or some kind of seafood, would be an entirely bad thing 500 years from the future. I just think we're trying to wean off the industrial food-grid matrix and start finding nutrition from better sources.

So for me, whether its just a phase, or a permanent lifestyle change, I support it. I just hope that if it's a permanent lifestyle change that people will be educated enough to make it work. As I see it, being vegan and eating out of a grocery store seems flawed to me, unless it's a really happening market. There's so much more I could add but, I guess within animal product diets or exclusively plant-based diets there is reason and extremism alike, so as always, listen to your bodies and do what they tell you to is the right ethos for any diet selection.

I will say this, I personally tried vegan before I turned 20 and after two months I was encountering health problems but that was because I was surviving on oreos bread and spicy humus... I'm open to trying vegan out again a bit later in life, when I'll have my own garden and can get over 50% of my food from my back yard

Health Matters


Great question, there are many reason why we should not eat or kill animals. For me and my family we choose to eat vegetables everyday rather than animals because it is way way healthy according to the nutritionist we talked MEAT OF ANIMALS ISN’T AS RICH IN NUTRIENTS AS PLANTS. Every animal-based diet isn’t as diverse in terms of nutrients as a plant-based diet is. You pretty much get two main macronutrients — protein and fat — with essentially no vitamins or minerals, and no fiber making it more dangerous.

As a family who is animal lovers who had 5 dogs and 3 cats we decided to have vegetables in life as it provides complete nutrition to the body. I have to admit that I'm still getting used to eating green leafy nowadays unlike my parents who's practicing it for more than 4 years now. But I have to admit it that since we started to be vegetarian, the families health seem to better and we feel it as it reflects to us physically and mentally.

To add to that is that Animals are sponges that soak up toxicity and high saturated fats.Because a majority of their biological makeup is fat, their bodies can accumulate an excessive amount of toxins, making it very dangerous if we eat meat everyday.So, when the animals eat a toxic diet, these toxins get carried with them for life, and they end up in the food you eat. That's why I don't really get the pleasure of eating it.

In general it is still up to us if we choose to #toveganornot. As we know meat are also very essential part of our diet as it provides the needed protein and boost energy that the body needs. But a well balance diet provide the necessary nutrients that our body needs to create new cells, clean toxins, and to just prevent future sickness.

Thank You❤️

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The argument is my belief in the ownership, subjugation and murder of animals. It’s a complicated issue, so let’s go point by point.
• Morality: Morals are a social feature defined by those powerful enough, it’s indeed a unique feature of our human race. If we don’t kill animals, other predators will do it, mother nature established the law of the strong, where only those at the top can consider these things.
Since morality depends on society and beliefs, as humans there isn’t a single answer to whether we should kill animals for pleasure or not. I personally dislike killing animals without need and treating them badly, but not everyone thinks the same, and I can’t judge them based on my own beliefs.
• Health: We are omnivores, that point alone should make the answer obvious. Our body needs different proteins, vitamins and carbohydrates, amongst others. Some foods are better at bringing those necessities to us than others. Vegetables are very healthy, but pure vegans suffer from many issues due to lack of meat, while meat lovers suffer even worse problems. There is no real benefit to eating meat over vegetables or vegetables over meat in the long term; our body NEEDS a balanced diet.
• Environment: Possibly vegan lovers have the upper hand here, nurturing animals for products and food is unhealthier to the environment that cultivating fields of vegetables.
• Economic: There is no real advantage to being vegan or to being a meat lover in this point… cultivating huge fields of vegetables and maintaining them is very expensive, while growing animals for their products and food is expensive too.
• Convenience: Meat lovers win here by a VERY long shot, you can just buy a slab of meat, fry it, and eat it with good taste. In order to properly cook and eat vegetables you need to check if it’s fresh, wash it, peel it (in 90% of the cases), then cook it (if you’re going for a healthy diet, it’s probably boiling it).
• Taste: Our body and taste buds give more pleasure when eating something that contains what we’re missing (or is extremely tasty), if we’re tired and missing carbs; a good pasta will taste like heaven; if we have too high blood pressure, a good 100% natural lemonade will be tastier than a coke and if we have an excess of vitamins and our blood is too alkaline, meat will taste phenomenally.
This comment derailed a bit from the original objective, which was the ownership, subjugation and murder of animals; much as the post derailed from that question. So I’m going to answer finally both points:
Vegan or not vegan. I’d rather keep staying as an omnivore, but if a decision was forced upon me, I would choose to be a meat lover. It’s more convenient and easier to be a meat lover, and as long as you buy in a market and don’t go to a slaughterhouse you can keep your conscience clean to a degree.
Ownership, subjugation and murder: I agree with this in certain areas… if we didn’t protect the chickens or the cows in our barns, other predators would kill them, they would have more freedom, but what is freedom to livestock? They won’t get on a train or ride a plane, they won’t build the next empire state, they would just get killed by someone stronger. The only difference is that their lives are in our hands instead of the hands of mother nature; and at least we have remorse and conscience.

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Hello guys; great topic and a very interesting one i must say. I am a non-vegan and a great lover of meat. My meal is not complete withoit meat in it and i see nothing wrong with having meat as long as it is not exaggerated of course.
Morally, i see nothing wrong with killing and eating animals. I am Christian and when God created animals and all other things in the beginning, Man was placed to rule over them. Even in his word, there is no where that restricts the consumption of animals except in some cases in which some animals were considered unclean but that changed again. So even in scripture, there is no restriction to meat consumption neither is it described as murder.
As concerns health, i know vegetables and plant sources of proteins are available but then animals provide a good source of proteins too and this is where preferences come in. I choose the one i like and it's not difficult to say i prefer animal protein sources over plants. Too much can be devastating but i always stick to the required amounts and that should keep me fine. So here they both present health benefits and i consume both even though i prefer animal protein sources.
I believe we all live and have our roles to play in a big ecosystem. Humans consume plants and animals alike, Carnivorous live on flesh and herbivores live on plants. I am human and that means i can eat plants and animals in my food chain and that is me.
So animals and plants fall under my food chain and i love eating both which really satisfies me i must say.
I love it and i see no problem with it.
It's all about our choices, emotions and psychology.
So i do participate actively in meat consumption and i love meat and i don't see anything wrong with that.
I respect the choice of vegans and non-vegans alike.

I'd like to start by saying I became an anarchist (one who rejects all forms of rulership) when I realized that the government had no legitimate claim of authority over the masses.

I became a vegan when I realized that the masses had no legitimate claim of authority over the animals.

"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. This is the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary."

I do not eat the dead flesh of animals because killing and eating animals is the ultimate expression of domination and is inextricably linked to our killing of each other.

The Golden Rule is called The Golden Rule for a reason: That which is harmful to you, do not do to others. This is what it all boils down to, abiding by the simple and eternal wisdom of The Golden Rule in all aspects of one's life and recognizing the interconnectedness of all sentient beings and our shared interest in life, freedom, and prosperity.

Freedom is the birthright of every sentient being, meaning that our unconscious rulership of the animal kingdom is in violation of the natural laws that govern our behavior in the universe and is ultimately the primary reason we continue to be ruled and dominated by tyrants in the political, religious, and financial spheres. It is simply not possible to establish freedom and peace in human society while killing hundreds of BILLIONS of animals per year. Think about it. This is a gross violation of the Law of Correspondence, and we would be wise to correct and realign our behavior before we cause permanent and irreparable damage to ourselves, the animals, and the planet.

The widespread slaughter of animals has left a permanent stain on our collective conscience, and it is imperative for us to shed light on humanity's darkest shadow before we become entirely consumed by darkness and potentially exterminate all life on this beautiful and abundant planet.

Love your blog @kennyskitchen. I just found it through the #Tribesteemup community.

I'm pretty new to the Steemit community (my brother @benadapt convinced me to join), but so far the #vegan community and the wider platform has been so welcoming.

If you haven't guessed by my account name, I write about vegan lifestyle topics, with a focus on finding and reviewing the best vegan outdoor gear on the planet. 🏔️🌍🌳

The #Tribesteemup community seems like a perfect fit for my interests and ethos. Is it possible for new members to join?

Followed

I am vegan when i can afford to be. I grew up on a farm and know first hand how cows are more similar to dogs than people would care to know. When raised right they are loyal, kind and corky. I do feel better when being strict vegan. And the argument against mass farms and the polution it causes is blinding. But when im broke eggs and white meat sonetimes are necessary for protien intake. It usually causes me so much distress that I push myself for income to make sure i can afford beans and nuts.

As a kid i refused to eat meat. I don't know why, but that was so. My mother had big problems with my diet. She managed somehow and I started to eat meat, but when I was 25 yo, I stopped eating meat. From that moment I haven't eaten any meat. Still, I eat cheese and drink milk in my coffee. I am now 46 yo, feeling great.

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Be sure to leave at least 50SP undelegated on your account.

@kennyskitchen you were flagged by a worthless gang of trolls, so, I gave you an upvote to counteract it! Enjoy!!

Great contest @kennykitchen, my thoughts on this are, seeing as I'm an animal and I have feelings and I suffer pain like all other animals, would I like to be raised and then tortured in order to be eaten, or in the very small percentage that may not be tortured but still raised to be eaten. No I wouldn't so why would I do the same to them. We are all the one! xx

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Hi, I would like to make a few comments about these issues. First of all, it is very difficult to find the quality protein in animal products and may have great difficulties in its deficiency. My opinion is that both animal products and vegetables should be consumed equally because the place in the human body is important in both groups. I think that edible animals need to be consumed in accordance with the needs of excess can be harmful. We don't say we kill animals, but people need to be consumed for their eating needs. Serious difficulties may occur in the body when insufficient protein is taken. I think it's best to be balanced, eat what we are, or Vegan is the best balanced way to feed on both sides.
71EA117F-1228-4BBF-9C90-101C3BA08017.jpeg

Vegan nutrition can lead to some difficulties in the body, such as the inability of the bones to get enough protein etc. If we do a balanced consumption, we'll do less damage to the environment. Products that are damaging to the environment and disrupting the ecological balance are ready-made foods I certainly do not recommend consuming ready-made foods.

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I actually did a large post about this recently, as the arguments for protein by animal-eaters are based on complete pseudo-science, and do not match up with reality. Humans need the 9 essential amino acids, which can be gotten from hundreds of different plants, and the fact that dead flesh has complete protein chains is part of the reason eating it drains so much energy. The body actually has to break down those proteins into the AAs it actually needs, which is highly inefficient.

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Congratulations on your work, really great.

Because of the verse mentioned in the Bible
" I have forbidden to you the dead, blood, pork, what is meant god by others of it, strangling "

Oh nice, that is a pretty cool disussion topic and the prizes will make it get plenty of entries. I am already playing with the answers in my mind. Pretty tough one, to be honest.

Are you aware of @pennsif's Alternative Lifestyle Show on MSP Waves Radio? He did a fantastic Vegan Special a while back and is now looking for more people to come on the show and talk about veganism & health... The show airs live every Friday 10-12 UTC. Would you be interested? This is an invitation on behalf of @pennsif :-)

In vegan so many super foods available which can help to build your health a great way like alfalfa and wheatgrass powder than its unnecessary to kill animals.

Healthwise, spiritually, socially, mentally and physically, we really do not live by food alone. We live by the word of our mouth. What goes in is the word of God and what comes out is also the word of God. Food, water, air we breathe are all secondary and as per the need. When we love unconditionally, we focus on the word of God and not on what we wear, eat and drink.

Killing animals or killing plants or even the micro-organisms is all the same. However, being wicked within and having a non graceful heart would make the difference. Eating Vegan or Not is not the question! The real question is "Are you graceful or not?". In God's Grace, we Live by God's mercy, unconditional love and truth.

A true merciful heart would never ask any vegetarian to force into eating meat and on the other hand sacrificing eating meat. Love has no compulsion, no sacrifices and no right/wrong. Love has Pure Mercy of being Unconditional Only.

Killing animals, plants, micro-organisms is also secondary, however, hurting a human being is more severe act. It can be termed as a wicked act. So, understanding true mercy is important. At the same time, we are not greedy in the Grace of God, to keep slaughtering animals for the greed instead of for the need.

At the time of need, His Grace is Sufficient. So, we live by His Grace and not by lawful thinking as to eat or not to eat. If we go by law of nature, we should not kill plants too. Moreover, did you know that we kill millions of micro-organisms daily when we walk and even when we breath?

Life is true freedom where we ponder upon the Grace, Mercy and Peace in true sense. We love life and we also love what we eat and wear without pondering on good or bad. Thinking Goodness Only is the Perfect Solution!

I upvoted this post, resteemed it and also wrote a separate post using the tag #toveganornot
Here is my post:
https://steemit.com/steempress/@puregrace/toveganornotkennyskitchenwhatdefilesusisnotthefoodbutthewordofourmouth-c5ovkqcbfx

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Killing animals, plants, micro-organisms is also secondary, however, hurting a human being is more severe act.

What makes it any different to kill one kind of animal (humans) from any other? Since we know of many animals who experience pain, suffering, and consciousness like humans do, this seems to be nothing more than anthropocentric species-ism to me.

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God is impartial! So, He is not anthropocentric too. God and His kindness are all in spiritual form. When the base is the spirit of God or the unconditional love of God, we focus on Grace of God instead of the species of nature. So, a human being is no more a species. A human being is transformed to Son of God in His Grace unlike the animals.

Though, we do not give priority based awareness in God's Grace, we also do not believe in illusions and nature is an illusion. Human being is no more an animal when transformed spiritually by the Grace of God because then he is transformed to the spirit of God. Thus, the spirit of God is not an animal and hence human being is not more an animal too. In this stage of transformation, we learn to love truly and not partially.

Partial love believes in nature and its variety of species, whereas, God's Grace is ONE and has no variety and species. Animals have soul, which is partial, however, a Grace-Human Being has no soul, but spirit only.

Personally, I think that this an argument that is based on the minutia and too many people are focusing on all the subcultures and ideas beneath it and not focusing on what the movement of veganism is actually trying or rather supposed to achieve. Instead of a movement that would support sustainable use and production of modern consumer goods and services while reducing the need for capitalistic monopolies more interested in profits than producing for what we need its turned into an exclusive evangelicals movement that is bullying its message across rather than trying to achieve organic growth by providing education and a superior product that consumers could switch over too easily.

Since no one was taking the meat eater stance I decided I'd take one for the team and here is my response post - https://steemit.com/toveganornot/@chekohler/toveganornot-my-reponse-beat-my-meat

Let the fun and games begin!

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its turned into an exclusive evangelicals movement that is bullying its message across rather than trying to achieve organic growth by providing education and a superior product that consumers could switch over too easily.

That's funny, because about 90% of the vegans that I know don't ever talk about it, except through the food they are preparing and sharing with people. The "bullying" you are referring to is generally from those who are new to a realization, and we see it with anarchism, atheism, veganism, and every other group where folks have realized they were lied to and tricked for a long time.

This seems to be a balance of self-judgement for what they only recently stopped doing/believing, frustration with people not listening, and often a bit of a superiority complex.

I eat dead animals because LIVE animals are difficult to keep on the plate and even harder to chew and digest.

Figured you might like this:
how to become.png

I just posted my first post on steemit, which is related to this topic. I know this contest is over, but wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts anyhow...