Steemit creates accounts for scammers... and nobody else?

in steemit •  last year  (edited)

Hacker, Cybercrime, Security, Network, Technology

What is wrong with account creation?

A day doesn't go by I don't hear a complaint about how slow it is to create a new account via the Steemit account creation process. An account can take anywhere from a few hours to weeks, and sometimes never.

This is a big hurdle for Steemit to grow and I know this is a big focus for Hard Fork 20 (aka hf20) but why is it so easy for spammers to sign up via the Steemit faucet?

Account creation is no problem for spammers

The problem only exists for legitimate users, as spammers have no problems making thousands of accounts on a daily basis.

Enter the Zhiyin network

There is currently 80 accounts for zhiyin all created through the Steemit account creation process. From @zhiyin1 to @zhiyin80 for a total of 1,200 STEEM Power delegated by Steemit Inc.

This doesn't sound like a lot of STEEM power but this is free and it isn't the only accounts in their network. There are many more. There is one network with over 20,000 accounts.

50 Accounts approved in a single day







Another 30 accounts approved 12 days ago


userdatecreator
zhiyin93/17/2018 12:00:33 PMsteem
zhiyin803/27/2018 6:35:33 AMsteem
zhiyin83/17/2018 11:58:21 AMsteem
zhiyin793/27/2018 6:36:09 AMsteem
zhiyin783/27/2018 6:36:48 AMsteem
zhiyin773/27/2018 6:37:24 AMsteem
zhiyin763/27/2018 6:38:03 AMsteem
zhiyin753/27/2018 6:38:39 AMsteem
zhiyin743/27/2018 6:39:15 AMsteem
zhiyin733/27/2018 6:39:48 AMsteem
zhiyin723/27/2018 6:40:21 AMsteem
zhiyin713/27/2018 6:41:00 AMsteem
zhiyin703/27/2018 6:41:39 AMsteem
zhiyin73/17/2018 11:57:21 AMsteem
zhiyin693/27/2018 6:42:24 AMsteem
zhiyin683/27/2018 6:43:03 AMsteem
zhiyin673/27/2018 6:43:57 AMsteem
zhiyin663/27/2018 6:46:24 AMsteem
zhiyin653/27/2018 6:47:09 AMsteem
zhiyin643/27/2018 6:48:00 AMsteem
zhiyin633/27/2018 6:48:39 AMsteem
zhiyin623/27/2018 6:51:09 AMsteem
zhiyin613/27/2018 6:49:39 AMsteem
zhiyin603/27/2018 6:51:51 AMsteem
zhiyin63/17/2018 11:55:54 AMsteem
zhiyin593/27/2018 6:52:48 AMsteem
zhiyin583/27/2018 6:53:24 AMsteem
zhiyin573/27/2018 6:54:03 AMsteem
zhiyin563/27/2018 6:54:42 AMsteem
zhiyin553/27/2018 6:55:15 AMsteem
zhiyin543/27/2018 6:55:48 AMsteem
zhiyin533/27/2018 6:56:21 AMsteem
zhiyin523/27/2018 6:56:57 AMsteem
zhiyin513/17/2018 1:05:18 PMsteem
zhiyin503/17/2018 1:08:36 PMsteem
zhiyin53/17/2018 11:54:39 AMsteem
zhiyin493/17/2018 1:07:36 PMsteem
zhiyin483/17/2018 1:06:36 PMsteem
zhiyin443/17/2018 1:00:42 PMsteem
zhiyin433/17/2018 12:59:27 PMsteem
zhiyin423/17/2018 12:56:45 PMsteem
zhiyin413/17/2018 12:55:45 PMsteem
zhiyin403/17/2018 12:54:48 PMsteem
zhiyin43/17/2018 11:53:24 AMsteem
zhiyin393/17/2018 12:53:39 PMsteem
zhiyin383/17/2018 12:52:36 PMsteem
zhiyin363/17/2018 12:44:57 PMsteem
zhiyin353/17/2018 12:43:18 PMsteem
zhiyin333/17/2018 12:38:39 PMsteem
zhiyin323/17/2018 12:37:33 PMsteem
zhiyin303/17/2018 12:33:21 PMsteem
zhiyin33/17/2018 11:52:09 AMsteem
zhiyin293/17/2018 12:32:18 PMsteem
zhiyin283/17/2018 12:31:24 PMsteem
zhiyin273/17/2018 12:30:21 PMsteem
zhiyin263/17/2018 12:27:42 PMsteem
zhiyin253/17/2018 12:26:51 PMsteem
zhiyin243/17/2018 12:25:54 PMsteem
zhiyin233/17/2018 12:24:54 PMsteem
zhiyin223/17/2018 12:22:24 PMsteem
zhiyin213/17/2018 12:20:24 PMsteem
zhiyin203/17/2018 12:19:27 PMsteem
zhiyin23/17/2018 11:51:03 AMsteem
zhiyin193/17/2018 11:54:09 AMsteem
zhiyin173/17/2018 11:52:12 AMsteem
zhiyin163/17/2018 11:51:09 AMsteem
zhiyin153/17/2018 11:48:30 AMsteem
zhiyin143/17/2018 11:49:57 AMsteem
zhiyin133/17/2018 12:06:03 PMsteem
zhiyin123/17/2018 12:04:21 PMsteem
zhiyin1163/17/2018 12:15:42 PMsteem
zhiyin1153/17/2018 12:14:21 PMsteem
zhiyin1143/17/2018 12:11:18 PMsteem
zhiyin113/17/2018 12:03:06 PMsteem
zhiyin103/17/2018 12:01:54 PMsteem
zhiyin13/17/2018 11:49:45 AMsteem

What do they do?

What you think?

Surely this is an exception, and just an oversight?

userdatecreator
ankle53/26/2018 12:11:09 PMsteem
ankle43/26/2018 12:12:21 PMsteem
ankle33/26/2018 12:13:12 PMsteem
ankle23/26/2018 12:14:00 PMsteem
ankle13/26/2018 12:14:57 PMsteem

userdatecreator
trunk1203/27/2018 5:18:48 AMsteem
trunk1193/27/2018 5:18:12 AMsteem
trunk1183/27/2018 5:17:33 AMsteem
trunk1173/27/2018 5:16:42 AMsteem
trunk1153/27/2018 5:16:06 AMsteem
trunk1143/27/2018 5:15:33 AMsteem
trunk1133/27/2018 5:11:33 AMsteem
trunk1123/27/2018 5:10:57 AMsteem
trunk1113/27/2018 5:10:18 AMsteem
trunk1103/27/2018 5:09:33 AMsteem
trunk1093/27/2018 5:09:00 AMsteem
trunk1083/27/2018 5:08:24 AMsteem
trunk1073/27/2018 5:07:48 AMsteem
trunk1063/27/2018 5:07:12 AMsteem
trunk1053/27/2018 5:06:36 AMsteem
trunk1043/27/2018 5:05:27 AMsteem
trunk1033/27/2018 5:04:48 AMsteem
trunk1023/27/2018 5:04:06 AMsteem
trunk1013/27/2018 5:03:03 AMsteem
trunk1003/27/2018 5:02:24 AMsteem

userdatecreator
prefix1193/27/2018 5:01:45 AMsteem
prefix1183/27/2018 5:01:06 AMsteem
prefix1173/27/2018 5:00:24 AMsteem
prefix1163/27/2018 4:59:39 AMsteem
prefix1153/27/2018 4:58:51 AMsteem
prefix1143/27/2018 4:58:12 AMsteem
prefix1133/27/2018 4:57:33 AMsteem
prefix1123/27/2018 4:57:00 AMsteem
prefix1113/27/2018 4:56:24 AMsteem
prefix1103/27/2018 4:55:42 AMsteem
prefix1093/27/2018 4:55:03 AMsteem
prefix1083/27/2018 4:54:27 AMsteem
prefix1073/27/2018 4:53:48 AMsteem
prefix1063/27/2018 4:53:09 AMsteem
prefix1053/27/2018 4:52:27 AMsteem
prefix1043/27/2018 4:51:48 AMsteem
prefix1033/27/2018 4:51:00 AMsteem
prefix1023/27/2018 4:50:18 AMsteem
prefix1013/27/2018 4:49:36 AMsteem
prefix1003/27/2018 4:48:54 AMsteem

userdatecreator
hybrid1257/10/2017 3:20:51 AMkyle88
hybrid1093/27/2018 5:25:21 AMsteem
hybrid1083/27/2018 5:24:42 AMsteem
hybrid1073/27/2018 5:24:09 AMsteem
hybrid1063/27/2018 5:23:33 AMsteem
hybrid1053/27/2018 5:22:54 AMsteem
hybrid1043/27/2018 5:22:15 AMsteem
hybrid1033/27/2018 5:21:39 AMsteem
hybrid1023/27/2018 5:20:57 AMsteem
hybrid1013/27/2018 5:20:09 AMsteem
hybrid1003/27/2018 5:19:30 AMsteem

userdatecreator
routing1093/27/2018 4:27:15 AMsteem
routing1083/27/2018 4:26:42 AMsteem
routing1073/27/2018 4:26:06 AMsteem
routing1063/27/2018 4:25:30 AMsteem
routing1053/27/2018 4:24:57 AMsteem
routing1043/27/2018 4:24:21 AMsteem
routing1033/27/2018 4:23:51 AMsteem
routing1023/27/2018 4:23:15 AMsteem
routing1013/27/2018 4:22:42 AMsteem
routing1003/27/2018 4:22:03 AMsteem

Why is it so easy for spammers to create mass accounts, but so difficult for legitimate users to get a single account?

How are these mass accounts getting approved so efficiently?

X48EJ

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  ·  last year (edited)

How do these accounts get manually approved? I always thought the manual approval process was eyeballing a long list of accounts and picking obvious scammed ones out. But how would a list of zhiyinXXX, routingXXX, and prefixXXX pages long get past it?

Furthermore, if Steemit Inc doesn't diligently remove delegation from these accounts, and other groups of spam accounts it encourages the abusers to abuse more.

There are groups of accounts like this that are solely being used to spam the blockchain for penny votes that can add up to tens or hundreds of dollars. But they shit all over the blockchain and the nodes that make up the network to do it. Spammers like this are partially responsible for the inflated network utilization, compared to how it would be if it was just legitimate users.

This spam leads to prohibitive resource use, which has a significant negative impact on existing services and adds barriers to entry for new ones. For example, Poloniex's wallet is still down and I struggle to think why besides the resource requirements for a Steem node.

Growth is imperative but the drag from this kind of thing can keep Steem from flying higher. It is an issue which I have personally raised on multiple occasions and I still don't think it's taken seriously enough. The approval of obvious groups of accounts like this is a prime example.

Ultimately Steem's health is up to all of its users, not just Steemit Inc. @Patrice and the @Spaminator team have been doing an amazing job for the Steem ecosystem in counteracting this type of costly spam.

However, if Steemit Inc creates spam botnets it is important they take the job of undelegation seriously, to mitigate the damage to the network. It's also more important to do things to prevent the creation of new accounts for botnets.

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You said this much nicer than I would have. But...

STINC is obviously the problem, they have claimed that they have solutions for onboarding (a claim that they made almost a year ago), and here we are with the same issues and the continued incompetence a year later.

Just like they created a worse blogging/interaction/reward allocation environment with their completely misguided/ignorant hard forks last spring, they have yielded terrible results regarding account creation and delegation for exploiters and spam networks. And just as they’ve done with their hard forks, they’re completely ignoring the consequences of their actions and the calls from those who see the train wreck in progress.

Also, as you pointed out - the fact that they allegedly have a “manual” approval process makes this even worse, as these are obviously exploits/spammers. This just reinforces the fact that they are incompetent and/or indifferent about both their decisions and the consequences, which does nothing but discourage investment and decrease confidence in their so-called “leadership role” on the blockchain.

It really is a shame that these clowns control such a large stake in all of this. It’s a great disservice to both the blockchain and anyone invested in it. But expecting things to change would be insane at this point. I’m just hoping that STINC is able to fully divest before the damage is irreparable. Though I’m not confident that we haven’t already reached the tipping point.

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  ·  last year (edited)

I expect the underlying problem is not just STINC. I expected the problem to arise in the game theory of a consortium blockchain combined with a flawed rewards model.

I warned the Steem community of this inevitable game theory outcome more than once since 2016:

Blog rewards CAN’T be widely distributed

Who pays for the blogging and curation rewards? (Part 2):

Who Actually Pays

The debasement of SP holders is not a complete picture of who pays, because the game theory for rewards indicates that perhaps hypothetically deviant whales could in theory offset any debasement and increase their share of the money supply. Although I haven’t developed a precise model, it appears that the more SP stake a holder controls, then proportionally some non-linear less debasement. Meaning I posit that the system appears to hypothetically economically favor concentration of the wealth to those who already concentrate the wealth in the deviant scenario.

“Consortium blockchains” (e.g. DPoS & Tendermint) can’t Internet scale

There’s a solution to the game theory problem, but not with the current model. And the vested interests here will never change the existing model.

Actually this problem at the generative essence abstract level is just another power vacuum paradigm. Those who are the most ruthless always win the battle for the void in the power vacuum.

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I expect the underlying problem is not just STINC.

Then your expectations are completely off-base. These accounts are being created at no cost to the exploiters by STINC. The approval of these large bot-nets and the delegated SP given to them comes directly from STINC. These exploiters are exploiting one of the (apparently) automated sign-up systems being run by STINC. They aren't exploiting the blockchain account creation protocols that would otherwise require them to fund the creation of their own bot-nets.

It isn't a blockchain problem. It's an incompetence-inside-the-halls-of-STINC problem...as usual.

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  ·  last year (edited)

Thanks for replying. I appreciate corrections and discussion.

My thesis is at a game theory meta level above the level you are referring to. You are looking at symptoms. I am referring to the root genesis of the problem.

What I am saying is that some vested interests are allowing that to happen and making sure it is allowed to continue to happen. Because of course they are profiting on it anonymously whilst employing their power within the consortium to prevent any fix from occurring.

This is always how the the-powers-that-be operate behind the curtain. This was explained years ago to the DPoS crowd but of course they refuse to listen:

http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/#example-2-delegated-proof-of-stake-dpos

Blaming it on incompetence is also sort of an incompetence. Some folks are feigning incompetence to fool the incompetent who do not look at the game theory of how political vacuums behave in the real world.

If you can somehow pressure them to fix STINC, they’ll come up with another scheme to extract the value out of the system. Because “they” control it. It’s pointless for me to investigate who “they” are, because they will not give up their control. Are they committing a crime?

Remove STINC and the void in the power vacuum will be won by the most ruthless. This is the way politics and democracy always work.

It’s naive or disingenuous to say that a consortium blockchain design has nothing to do with this. It was explained 3 years ago (and even before that) that voting (for witness, rewards, etc) requires rule by oligarchy otherwise it diverges into chaotic disagreement (and Daniel Larimer is frankly incorrect and does not comprehend Byzantine Fault Tolerance):

http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/#money-and-politics

I am appreciative of you raising the issue. I even resteemed this blog (first I ever resteemed) to my 1800+ followers. I am also sensitive to the need to have a system which is objective. But for me the outcome is “sigh, don’t people ever learn that politics of voting for a collective is a power vacuum”.

Obviously they are not only gaining SP from the signup bonus but also presumably by using these sockpuppets to upvote groupwise to game the NON-LINEAR rewards system, which is what my aforementioned blog from 2016 predicted would happen. That blog of mine had explained that a linear vote weighting would not be viable. And a non-linear one of course can be gamed by collusion.

P.S. I believe STINC knows the end of Steem isn’t that far from now and they must extract maximum value while they still can.

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When you say vacuum, do you mean economic bubble that may pop or are bubbles and vacuums complete opposites and cannot be compared at all, allegorically?

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Follow all the links you find in order to understand power vacuums.

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THANK YOU!

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FORK! FORK! FORK! FORK!

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let me guess, they will answer with silence. Any bets?

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Amen.

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Wow amazing very excited?

I create at least a dozen accounts a week for legit content creators (usually journalists with a decent social media following) that have been waiting on their registration for weeks with no response. Seeing the faucet mass register obvious bot accounts is infuriating and makes me wonder why I bother. Fix this bullshit STINC.

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One has to assume these are created via an automated signup process. If there is any manual checking involved then one or more people at Steemit Inc are totally incapable of doing their job and should be fired.

If this is automated then there appears to be no verification in place at all.

I am no coder but I do know that it would not be at all difficult to code in some level of basic checking to prevent this sort of abuse.

... check if NEW ACCOUNT NAME is like PREVIOUS ACCOUNT NAMES created in last 24 hours
... IF YES halt registration and send for manual inspections

I am sure a coded version of that would be not beyond the capabilities of the crack team of developers at Steemit Inc. I suspect even the Intern could handle this.

Or maybe they just don't care...

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You are correct, it should not even be a problem to discuss, so easy it is to fix. Yet, here we are.

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👍 😞

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"one or more people at Steemit Inc are totally incapable of doing their job and should be fired."

Or they are in on it.

Just pointing out the possibilities, for the sake of completeness.

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That would be worse still...

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I think we need new users to bid at the end of the month, via second price auctions, to keep their delegations.

Otherwise the delegation ends. Automatic, but should give effective outcomes.

Even if they circle upvote, the circle eventually comes to an end, compared to real content creators. Relative rates don't match up, those kinds of things might be solutions?

Should get rid of a lot of the scammers and spammers.

Thoughts?

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Interesting idea...

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Same here, my friend was awaiting approval for a month. In the end I bought her an account. Next day she got a letter that the request got approved. Another one waited for a week. Me? I got lucky to be approved in the same day, otherwise I might not ever come here.

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I have created accounts for people who gave up waiting, but not nearly that many. Many never receive their account. The amount of serial spam accounts approved is infuriating. How Dart registered 21,000+ accounts through the Steemit faucet blows my mind.

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If they just want inflated activity numbers to show to potential investors, and they know potential investors don't give a shit about actually looking deeper into things, then there would be very obvious reasons why they would let it go on for so long. 21000 accounts that are nearly guaranteed to vote and not go completely dead until the delegation is withdrawn and the creation SP is drained really boosts the figures considering the active userbase here is so small.

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I suspect that isn't the reason.

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Well hold everybody in suspense and not tell us what you think the reason is. Is this a situation that you can't black list these registrants?

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  ·  last year (edited)

I voted for you witnesses because I like your posts. Could you please rate this post and verify.... I think we all play for one goal. https://steemit.com/steemit/@marekkaminski/the-scheme-of-spammers-operation-carousel-of-voters-rape-steem-pool-plagiarism-spamming-my-silent-investigation

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i have told my friends about steem and they got interested in joining the steem community, they have signup since January this year and they haven't got their account opened yet, some of them have lost that interest and some are still waiting for a miracle. something have to be done.

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  ·  last year (edited)

Create a separate team that supplies the hardfork code instead of relying on steeminc.

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I think you are going in the right direction and it seems to me that in time over site of the developing block chain could be delegated using algorithms to coding teams based on past performance in areas of competency and ethics. Just a thought. I'm incredibly novice to this system and fairly new user. I can see a lot of potential for abuse, but also see potential that block chain can allow a system able to level the playing field in ways humanity has yet to experience. Transparent algorithms can be trusted where people cannot

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They took our jobs, der terk er Jerbb!

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Hahaah hahahaah amazing

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AMEN!

This needs to be fixed asap. These are the type of things that leave a negative image on new users trying to figure the workings of steemit.

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That's true. Now that spammers are all over Steemit it has become harder for minnows to establish in this platform. Most probably they also think the best (and sometimes only) way to succeed on Steemit is pay bots and spammers to upvote them, which in the first place should not be the case.

Bottomline: THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED, and ASAP in that matter.

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Sorry to say, it will never be fixed. This is an economics and game theory lesson that unfortunately most people are incapable of comprehending.

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a couple of weeks ago I started inspecting steemit from day 1. The reason this is not fixed is because it's meant to be this way. A small group ( maybe 1 company ) mined all the original steem using so many accounts it would take weeks of longer just to sort through them all.
Auto vesting was used to feed several accounts that became the orginal whales plus many accounts that do show some activity. Many of these accounts have just been drained of all value. ( within a week or so), Now thanks to reading this post I see I continues today :-( Is there a private place to discuss this activity? and discuss corrective measures if possible at this point. Let me know.

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  ·  last year (edited)

@codypanama wrote:

Is there a private place to discuss this activity? and discuss corrective measures if possible at this point.

As for a private place, a few of my supporters discuss this in private using secure chat (Crypto.cat combined with another layer of encryption employing GPG). Because of the demands on my scarce available time, I don’t really want to open up that group to more participants unless you can offer some insight or assistance (that we don’t already have) to the project I am working on. I do not know of other private discussions. You might ask @smooth. He is not currently in our private group, but he is very well connected overall in this arena and afaics for the past 4 years his ethics are impeccable. He is also a Steem and Monero whale, as well as being one of the developers of Aeon and I believe he may have funded Busy.org so we have an alternative to the Steemit.com UI. So if you want to get something organized outside of our private group’s plans, he may be one of the guys to talk with.

I’m working on it. That link will lead you to other links to more discussion.

James Corbett allowed my comment regarding this issue at his page that publicized Steem recently. That is part of Corbett’s new series covering alternative social media platforms.

The only other place where I know this was discussed was at several Steem threads at Bitcointalk.org. But I am banned from that site. The main thread there was Steem pyramid revealed. You can find comments from my numerous past BCT accounts in that thread (my numerous attempts to evade the ban before I quit trying).

Note I’m not going to continue harping about this on Steem. I am busy on my project. It is up to you all to carry the torch of edification if you think it is helpful.

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I'm happy to see that people are actively working on these issues. I'm not a techy but started following bread crumb trails by hand. It broke my heart what I found, but see talented people are on it.
Thanks for the speedy reply, I will follow from a distance and only step in further if I can offer something of value to the group. Together we stand divided we fall.
I feel so much better now.
Cheers

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Couldn’t this be fixed right now, if the delegated STEEM Power was revoked? Shouldn’t be hard to detect those schemes and undelegate everything.

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I agree, STEEMIT will die if it is run by scammers and bots and not by people creating and liking real content!

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Did you buy that Steem power mate? I am thinking on investing on it as soon as Ethereum rises a little...

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yes you are right man,

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I agree your comment

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Congrats, you made the @dtube #steemitminute for today!

Click the Image Below

This thing need an attention. A little problem can be huge if this can get through. There are abusers everywhere and steemit is not excluded. Hope they can implement like 4 account per IP address or any problem solver. Thanks bringing this in our attention.

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If you're a spammer, then changing IP address is like a piece of cake, and basically, with the current createAccount function built in on the Steem blockchain, you can create as many accounts as you want through couple lines of code if you have enough SP.
So the solution is not gonna be easy, it would involve in a big change of the blockchain design or we have to help the community altogether.

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Actually 2FA would be the easy fix.
2FA aligns with the first rule of account creation.
Legitimate account creation that is. Where a mobile number is linked.

After that the internal account creation can simply limit the amount of accounts linked to each mobile device. There is no legitimate reason why anyone needs to have so many accounts on the same platform.

That is however, a sensible and intelligent way of combating the issue.
Such sense does not exist here. If someone isn't making money it's not going to work or even get implemented!

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Okay, definitely following you now.

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Agreed. The deeper issue here is: why impose limits on Steemit account creation and make onboarding harder for legit users, when current procedures fail at rooting out spammers.

IMO, the only thing that can be done is to remove limits on account creation and to target the incentives for spamming post-account creation, i.e. reduce rewards for spam and make it easier to report and penalise spammers.

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Agreed. Accounts should be enabled immediately. It is the delegation that is a problem, not the accounts existence. If necessary, make the account wait for delegation, not creation.

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Just made a post about this. Changing the costs and incentives.

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The 4 account/IP address sounds like a great solution. At least it doesn't limit legit users who use the same PC. And it's true this needs attention and urgent fixing. There are people who are trying to resolve this issue though, but spammers move and propagate faster.

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Won't work for dorms, buildings, large families, apartment buildings, etc.

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Agreed. Can you suggest solutions? We can put them altogether and meet halfway. This is one way we can help the Steemit community. But first, we need to provide a concrete possible solution to them.

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Because of the technology behind it, the entire idea was decentralizing and freedom. The blockchain itself has very few if any rules. Preventing account creation isn't really a good thing either. Essentially each one is a wallet. And they require a loan or deposit to open an account. It's not bad for the price of Steem.

I think what needs to happen is at the interface level. There will always be people who build their own interfaces but for those who are doing so and community oriented- perhaps having a roundtable for them to share ideas, technology, blacklists, etc.— since most of the issues have to be handled at the interface level.

On interfaces willing to cooperate such as steemit, steepio, busy, esteem, faucet, etc. perhaps adding a similar username filter so usernames have to be significantly different when coming from the same IP or when registering in a similar time frame.

It may also be worth it to make multi-accounts created by existing users marked safe and be allowed delegation if they meet a certain criteria upon creation— recent positing activity, steem sincerity rank (human), rep 50+, no chetah flags, etc.

Steemit Inc remove its own corporate delegations when a rep hits -1

Or, simply stop Steemit Inc delegating to all new accounts. Require money. Hey, Medium does it.

Peer Review. Instead of a company reviewing the accounts, have a second role below WITNESS called Ambassadors who have the power to vote on new account approvals. And the people vote for Ambassadors like we vote for Witnesses.

Separate the downvote from the flag so that flagging abuse doesn't cost the community and make it universal on all platforms. Make an official downvote/thumbsdown button. And make the flag a reporting feature.

A report this post button on @steemplus @adsactly plugin would help immediately— if folks from steemcleaners, cheetah, etc. all wanted to get involved. Steemplus could make a seperate button almost immediately alerting various groups to spam.

Incentivize real content further.

Incentivize reporting spam (after separating it from the downvote)

I don't really know. :( I just wish I could introduce more people to the platform but it's frustrating. And it's an expectation jerk honestly.

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great ideas here..Ambassadors - ending automatic SP delegation -both good ideas that would help to quicken the registration of legit users while preventing spammers from draining the system ...

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Thinking outside the box here. Throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks really. I don't think ending all SP delegation is a good idea. I just think ending Steemit.com (and interfaces) from delegating SP is a good idea. As far as Ambassadors, I think how Utopian works is a good model also if they couldn't add a second role to the system.

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Really great ideas @omitaylor. I most especially like and second your suggestions on peer review, separating downvote and flag, and the 'Report This Post' button. Will not say much but will tag @ned @steemitblog and two of the witnesses @timcliff @themarkymark hoping they'd notice.

Thank you so much for the contribution!

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Maybe your are on to something, steem has been going down, maybe someone on the inside is trying to artificially prop up the price.

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2FA.

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Unfortunately, that's not a good solution, because a lot of people share the same IP address. e.g. students living in student accommodation.

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Agreed. So...do you have other solutions in mind? 🙂Maybe we could merge it altogether and meet halfway.

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Some people use Tor to access steemit in countries where it is blocked in my opinion so this isn't a good idea.

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And VPN's are very common even in America so I totally agree.

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I agree. Especially at work in big companies.

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Steemit requires unique mobile number while registration of account on which we receive OTP, but I guess spammers are abusing this system by making use of virtual mobile numbers too!

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  ·  last year (edited)

Well, this is my first comment and for what i read, you may be allowed to create as much as many accounts you are willing to pay for. That is what i understood, and that is on the game rules. During my first 5 minutes using the page i got 2 invitations from people who are following thousands and i wont call it a scam but just a lame way to fall in other corporate crap like FB.

It is obviously abusing accounts. I hope the official bots can downvote all the upvotes from those accounts.

the question is, who is the responsible for this negligence? If no one to blame, what can we do about it? It might benefit the rise of account users to attract more users, but this are all spam users.

  ·  last year (edited)

I'm too much of a noob to comment something about this but thanks for sharing this info, this is crazy, I wasn't aware of that they could abuse this to that level, I mean 80 accounts? That's a little too much even for spammers. I know that there's a lot of people experiencing problems with the creation process, there's alot of asking me about the possible solutions at steemchat, I had a difficult time while trying to join too, Anyway, thanks for sharing this info, it's a subject to be taken in consideration.

P.S

Loved the gif.

These are all the whales. They are self-appointed hall monitors who have finally successfully killed off Steemit for the average person. They create bot upon bot for themselves, but prohibit others from doing it.

Sadly, this platform has become a blockchain joke. I really had such high hopes for this place.

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This has nothing to do with whales, these are likely regular people with technical skills or manpower exploiting a flawed system.

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Then who is to blame since you have immediately ruled out the whales?

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Steemit Inc makes the accounts, this is all about bad actors abusing the Steem Faucet, some of them can be whales but I highly doubt it, there are much more efficient ways to abuse the system if you already have Steem Power (and thus a whale).

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That's the thing with power, isn't it? It's never enough until it destroys everything.

Ohh my, what's happening right now with Steemit. Our new community members struggle to make an account (can't even get emails after a month), and this thing happened.

I thought they're doing it manually? They should've known that!

Thanks for calling this out. It’s something investors need to be aware of and those in control should do something about. Resteem

Totally agree with you we should to make something with this situation asap because is not so hard to write a macros on ZennoPoster registred 100+ day!

I wonder why Steem needs so long to confirm every account.... If they simply checked the account name they would know that these are spam accounts but their still approving such accounts!

I would suggest using a script that searches for users with similar user names. If someone wants to create "XY2" after they already created "XY1" Steem would see that "XY1" already exists and then don't create the account because it is highly likely that this is a spam account.

To Steemit whales, witnesses, founder @ned and everyone that's spearheading Steemit, don't get us wrong: WE ARE VERY THANKFUL AND APPRECIATIVE OF THIS BEAUTIFUL COMMUNITY AND OPPORTUNITY TO BE RECOGNIZED WITH WHO WE ARE, WHAT WE DO, AND SOMETIMES GET PAID FOR IT. And for that, we are forever thankful to you for your time, wit and effort here on Steemit.

But... this is a SERIOUS ISSUE. It poses a big threat to Steemit, especially on its worth. This is sad, really really sad. 😔 And this might be too much on your plate, but this needs fixing. And if possible, ASAP.

If this continues, Steemit will become just another monkey business.

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@ned”? Do you also believe that any leader ever cares? Leaders are there to take the most they can for themselves and their mafia buddies. It has always been this way and always will be this way. It is a fact of political economics and game theory.

Wow, I feel so unclean. I feel like I'm a part of some corruption syndicate. It took me months to get approved that I almost forgot that I signed up. Whenever there's easy money to be made, you'll always find unscrupulous people milking the system for their own greed.

Anyhow, I'm glad that I was accepted but all I need now is attention to my art from decent steemians

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I know, this kind of activity really hurts the credibility of the Steem network. I am hoping that we can soon put an end to spammers, and start getting more real users on the network. Steemit is such an awesome platform, and there is so much potential here!

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I concur, @connorsmith! :D

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Following, upvoted. Maybe, I'll find something to resteem on your page.

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Thank you so much, @altportal, you're too kind. And indeed, I am following you. Steem on mate!

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You got my attention @mongoosely. Thanks for being here. Following you now.

I know it sucks when you are expecting legit comments on your posts, but end up having some (or most) of them spamming you, or posting general comments. 😕 While some I disregard, mostly I don't hesitate to flag them, especially when they post spammy links that put your Steemit account to danger.

I hope this gets fixed real soon. It sucks.

Anyway, all the best and cheers! From your fellow artist over here 😊

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Thanx so much for your support @michelleast, my fellow artist! I din't know spammy links could put accounts at risk. But I too ignore them now.

Anyhow, I'm going to pop over and view your work. Have a great week!

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You're welcome @mongoosely! Thank you as well! :) Have a great week too!

I got my steemit account created almost immediately, didn't even know there is such a problem. But seriously, it's not so hard that routing103 is a spam account, considering that routing100, routing101 and routing102 was registered recently :)

This is problem 1 and 1a for steemit. Until this gets solved everything else is just details. Some how there needs to be some skin the game for everyone that starts one. I would go as far as finding unique voting patterns and common voting patterns with some of these accounts. Accounts with this kind of activity need to be taken off. This activity could even be blatant to be caught to show how messed up that is. What the solution is I don't know though. I spend three months killing myself finding a great community following of a few hundred people and these 'people' go out and create 80 friends over night, of which can be mechanized to vote. This is where automated voting systems like steemauto need to have some way to catch this (maybe start automatically flagging each other, lol).
Freaking counterfeit steem, this kind of crap brought the market down in 2008, naked short selling, this would be its identical twin on steemit. I will stay tuned for your answers to this problem!

For anyone that would like to do the exact opposite of what these counterfeiters are doing to steemit there is a newbie event set up to help people who just created LEGITIMATE accounts...

https://steemit.com/greetersguild/@greetersguild/it-s-contest-time-ladies-and-gentlemen-we-are-giving-away-60-shares-to-steembasicincome-and-sbd-rewards-you-have-to-check-this

@themarkymark Made a post today on this subject. You mentioned in Discord getting rid of Steemit, Inc. delegation, and I suggest there may be a way to avoid requiring users to possess btc to get steem to get an account, or know a user to make an account for them, yet still require every user to pay for their own account. Ending all these thousands of bad actor accounts.

I think we need new users to bid at the end of the month, via second price auctions, to keep their delegations.

Otherwise the delegation ends. Automatic, but should give effective outcomes.

Even if they circle upvote, the circle eventually comes to an end, compared to real content creators. Relative rates don't match up, those kinds of things might be solutions?

Should get rid of a lot of the scammers and spammers.

Thoughts?

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The delegation is slowly removed after the 30 days anyway. In your post, you mention the ability to allow friends to make accounts. That already exists, anyone with a Steem account can make another account for 3 STEEM.

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  ·  last year (edited)

The delegation appears to be only removed as you gain SP. I was at 0.1 in December, and it would remove delegation as I powered up. But the spam accounts do not power up.

How slowly otherwise is it removed? (It appeared to match my powering up.)

Regarding the 3 STEEM, I'm aware the ability exists for any account.

I understood your comment to mean Steemit, Inc. should not delegate and make free accounts for new users. That users should just pay to make accounts for other users. With the ability that is there. Either at their own expense or in exchange for other cryptos.

But that would significantly retard user adoption. If mainstream adoption for this specific platform is ever going to happen. For then a prospective but marginal user requires btc to get steem and requires fiat to btc transacting with all the requirements just to get a social account they are on the fence about, unless another account owner knows them and will pay for them.

The small delegations are also virtually useless at the moment. Perhaps what's better are larger delegations that expire rapidly. And to maintain the delegation some sort of honest valuation revealing bidding. Once the honest valuation is revealed by a second price auction, that information can be used productively. Say for a feedback.

50+ of these accounts randomly up voted my post. It seems they are going for curation rewards.

They could at least be creative with their naming...

Capture.PNG

The shit show gets a little shittier each day.

And yet everyone would like more engagement and more real human readers from the top down ... kind of counter productive for the platform 😬

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That's very true.

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Ha!! Classic "human behavior" say one thing, but do and mean another. People are full of shit... Which is why"Democracy" doesn't seem to work. It's a battle out there, guys... Knowledge is power!! The ones who can adapt to the new systems will flourish; all else.. well... not so sure. I wonder if this is just a "loophole" these people have found.. How are they creating them ? What do you mean "through the steemit faucet?? I know what a crypto faucet is, but don't get how they'd make an acct through it...

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I heard that anyone who downloads/operates a witness-node can just mass-create accounts on the STEEM-blockchain and somehow bypass Steemit.com? Is this true?

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Yes but the accounts must be funded. Steemit funds the ones it creates.

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Okay.

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You don't need a witness node, there are many ways to create accounts and these accounts would show up as created by a user (like how anonsteem does it) and not via @steem and they wouldn't have the free 15 SP delegation either, only the 3 STEEM used to create the account.

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Hmm, okay, and what do you think about this?

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An account is just 1 wallet. People tend to forget that because of the social aspect. If it were bitcoin, we make however many we want and we treat them mainly disposable. Lots of people use crypto wallets in scammy ways. For instance, with referrals. Like if coinbase offers 100 with the first 100 deposit and referral, I suppose someone smart enough could do something similar. Since there's no social aspect to the transactions, nobody cares.

We care more about this because it affects our own social user experience. If it didn't, I bet nobody would even care.

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@omitaylor
This is too weird, I need time to contemplate this, I feel a bit like a monkey trying to understand how to open up a tin-can right now... And you want me to understand how to make a bunch of tin-cans and fill them up with food and such... I will probably get there but hopefully I don't have to become a "developer" to be able to understand enough and to enjoy and benefit form this platform in a safe manner.

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I think this platform is a good experiment but not really one that will be a happy place for most common folks. It's a jungle with smoke and mirrors making it look civilized. And everyone's money is at risk. Simply different personality types alone make it something sort of toxic. There's a lot of enablers, authoritarians, and control freaks trying to make it a horrible place and a lot of the same trying to make it a better place— and a lot of investors large and small caught in their crossfire of their crusades.

Bless us all. If I didn't like a little action I wouldn't be here LOLOLOLOL.

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It would be fun to be a whale, a glowing green toxic-whale... (or maybe NOT, I feel kind of shitty when STEEM/SBD's drops, I wonder how a whale feels, some might actually have put like their "life-savings" into this system)... =)

And there is always a bigger fish!


image source

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I don't know a whole lot about this stuff truth be told, I'm cramming and learning it fast and asking a bunch of hard questions because I've been considering getting further involved financially. I appreciate that you recognize my hard work learning it though.

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Yeah, it is a bit like a "russian doll", or an onion or a computer game there is always a next level...

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@friendly-fenix Absozoobalootly

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(You where the one who told me about this @omitaylor!)

=)

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I did? I'm losing track of myself. Hahaha.

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i wouldnt be surprised if it was some kind of insider scam, honestly.

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  ·  last year (edited)

If by 'insider' you mean Steemit Inc employee(s), they could attempt to enrich themselves in much more lucrative ways, but ultimately just about any attempt would cost them more than they've earned. Economically, it does not make sense for it to be an "inside job."

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  ·  last year (edited)

I guess that makes sense, but the same could be said for any business? Im not implying anything really, im just a natural conspiracy realist is all. lol

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  ·  last year (edited)

now, after a few weeks ive discovered there is quite a bit of fraud going on... this person opines the same- human greed is all the reason one needs, when asking why would someone risk money and reputation to cheat and scam?

i also feel that the more complicated a system is to know or learn, or how opaque a rewards system is, in this case algorithms, it opens itself up to abuse.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@equ1l1br1um/dmania-owner-zombee-is-abusing-steemit-delegation-with-multiple-accounts-stealing-users-chances-of-getting-rewards-and-censors

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Interesting perspective

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yeah, i am quite jaded. lol

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interesting perspective, and jaded, yes... and true. (not steemit but dmania looks like) but still, "owners" just the same.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@equ1l1br1um/dmania-owner-zombee-is-abusing-steemit-delegation-with-multiple-accounts-stealing-users-chances-of-getting-rewards-and-censors

I wonder as well how they get away with it. I have got some friends yet to be approved.

This will go on till steemit doesnt become legit. whales a removing personal grudges on people they dont like. reward raping is allowed. One cannot mess with a powerful whale even if he/she types a one liner. you are not allowed to speak the truth.

The whole flagging system is rubbish. Whats the difference between other Social Media sites and steemit? i no longer see any difference.

i dont flag people just coz i dont like them or didnot like their idea, i must have flagged maybe once or twice, that too whales, not minnows as i know they will losse everything.

Everyone is now using bots, including me, but if you compare my or some other good content to the some of the contents on trending page, there is somuch shit going on. The worst are the whales that dont give anyhting to the community, just once a while comment and keep flagging for personal vengeance. All they do is delegate and sit idle. there are many whales out there who post once in a month.

Bots need to first see the content. However as per making new acconts, one cannot do anyhting about it, as that allowed by FB too.

Most of the accounts on this platform are either of bots or the persons who have multiple accounts. Even a non technical person can understand that this is being done to siphon reward pool. This is nothing but sheer greed. at one hand these scammers and fake accounts are getting fast approval while on the other hand scrupulous and authentic users are getting fade up of continuous waiting. This is not good for the betterment of this platform. This must be stopped. Otherwise, this platform can survive no longer.

  ·  last year (edited)

I could not agree more. I raised this point over a year ago with a number of the folks at Steemit and was told there is nothing they could do because this is the nature of a decentralized platform such as this.

I never really understood that. When I first joined back in August of 2016 everyone had to do the "proof of life" photo holding a pic of them with a steemit sign. If they did not, the community would chastise them....

Now this almost never happens and nobody says anything. Also when did the use of voting bots become a thing. I have never understood this. Call me old fashion (because I actually am) but I am trying to develop an actual audience for my project and I want real people seeing my work, not a bunch of useless bots.

This is all very unfortunate in that many highly creative people have left steemit because of what it is becoming. It is too bad because the underlying concept is awesome and if everybody would play by the rules we all agreed to when we signed up then it would be very cool.

But to be fair, if no one is watching the store then.... well then this is what happens.

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  ·  last year (edited)

That “decentralization” lie is a ruse or excuse provided so that STINC can cheat.

I remember you. I had commented on one of your first blogs and mentioned I was working on a replacement for Steem which would fix these problems.

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Steem is still decentralized. Steem power is not.

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Sorry but DPoS can’t be decentralized. Ditto Bitcoin and proof-of-work can’t be decentralized.

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You are a liar. P-o-W is open to the public, people can choose to pull hashing power reducing the Transaction process to zero sum. As for Bitmain controlling 30% of the hashing power on SHA-256, that is just a symptom of corporate effort to validate transactions for the long term. There are people all around the world running nodes, these (lightning) nodes guarantee BTC's Decentralization of P-o-W. Please read up on the Difficulty Factor in which the Article neglects to acknowledge being the reason for intensifying hashing power rates of Blockchain Corporations. Nonetheless, miners or master node users make the choice to dedicate power.. no-one tells them to dedicate power to the chain they all choose to. This is how BTC is community driven, and Decentralized...

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  ·  last year (edited)

You apparently have no idea whom I am that you have just called a liar. That’s a scalding, unsubstantiated accusation, thus you have lost my mutual respect.

You do not seem to understand the research which I already linked for you. I will refer you to a recent discussion I had with @zoidsoft about that linked research.

I have debated guys like you many, many times already at bitcointalk.org and Medium. I am not going to allow you eat up my precious time with your stupendous ignorance. You’re entitled to believe what ever you want to believe.

That research stands on its own and orthogonal, regardless of the points below.

As for Bitmain controlling 30% of the hashing power on SHA-256, that is just a symptom of corporate effort to validate transactions for the long term.

What is more important is who controls Bitmain and every other ASIC mining hardware provider. Namely it is the very handful of fabs that can manufacture the 12 and 14 nm ASICs, and moreover the banksters who arranged the loans and investments for the fabs to be built. IOW, capitalists control Bitcoin, same as they have always controlled the central banks. Nothing has changed, except gullible fools like you believe it has.

Also you seem to forget that mining is anonymous. You have no way of knowing who is mining for which pool. Bitmain could control 70% of the hashrate and you wouldn’t even know it.

And then there is ASICBOOST which contrary to the nonsense from Gregory Maxwell which I refuted, can’t be detected. So that’s another 33% boost that can be turned off or on at will without detection.

these (lightning) nodes guarantee BTC's Decentralization of P-o-W

Lightning Networks is a Mt. Box centralization attack on Bitcoin. The user @‍iamnotback at that Reddit is myself.

master node users make the choice to dedicate power

Masternodes are the epitome of centralization and unfortunately I was the apparently the original instigator of the masternode concept.

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Stating that nothing has changed, when entire industries are being disrupted is quite vain and is an understatement. Sure, Banking Cartels invest in everything that comes into existence. But they can't seem to understand the weight of all of their investments, the fabs were loaned to under the guise of Cloud Computing which turned out to be Blockchain automation. Your reddit post mentions IOU's in which you assume debt is involved in blockchain transactions, this is not the case because BTC is a debtless system. IOUs and Derivatives don't exist within the BTC Core functions. How is allowing for off-chain atomic swaps and consolidating micro-payments into blocks spread across decentralized nodes a bad thing? also your hyperlinks don't prove shit, but the fact that you get permabanhammered because you troll so fucking hard.