Is It Time To Create A Dark Steemit or Maybe Separate SubSteems Or Groups In Steemit?

in steemit •  last year

People like tribes, they always have. It's not realistic to wish or hope that everyone will "just get along". That is a naive approach. Will Steemit have groups in the future? I like groups. It allows me to be more open with a select number of people.

In @nspart's latest post, he's threatening to take vengeance on the Puritans within Steemit. After his posts were flagged, he proclaims that he will be soon:

"bringing on the Adult Industry on to Steemit......My goal now is to bring on to Steemit as many Swimwear Models, Nude Models, Fitness Models, Cam Girls, Strippers, Porn Actresses and their fans which will far out number the Puritan Crowd it will also bring in new money, and new users."

Great, another war.

Start a venture with vengeance as your primary motivator, and watch how well that goes.....

This problem keeps cropping up, and wars will continue to wage within Steemit unless we get different rooms within the site. It can best be summed us like this:

Right now in Steemit, we are all smashed up against each other like in a can of sardines. Geeks are alongside con men, pornstars lie along the hemline of an Amish woman. Details of last night's drunken debauchery lie alongside puppy photos from the lady who gardens in her spare time.

I accidentally get a whiff of someone's BO whom I don't really get along with. There are no groups, no separate boards, no places that I can cultivate businesses/friendships within Steemit. There is no dividing space that separates the disparate worlds. There's a reason that reddit has subreddits. It's to keep the world's people in separate rooms, to keep them from strangling each other.

Steemit is a petri dish of people, all kinds of people.

Steemit has no clear identity and so everything goes. But when people are involved, everything does not go. We don't like the same things, do the same things or think the same things. We are all diverse and have been shaped by a lifetime of different experiences. If Steemit just focused on porn and sports, I'd be out of here so fast. There literally would nothing for me. That's not the reality I want to live in. That's not my reality. Sure, I can just use the NSFW filter, but this reason I'm bothered by this particular user's anger is because I have seen it over, and over and over and over again. I felt this same anger when some whales flagged my post. The cause of the anger has not gone away......we are all in one room breathing down each other's nasty necks, and it's getting old. (No, this doesn't mean I hate Steemit, calm down you Steem Addicts.)

Is it time to create a DarkSteemit where @nspart can take out all his vengeance?

A place that no Puritans will be present? Sometimes it does feel like reddit's model gets it right because there are dedicated rooms with certain topics. Maybe Steemit is already planning on going in this direction?

How long can we be expected to all see things the same way, as we are packed like sardines into the same space?

With the current model, wars are inevitable. Flagging will continue. And if you upvote that conman named Dollar Vigilante one more time, I'm going to.....well, I will just continue doing what I've been doing: educating people about facts, and flagging his posts, all of them. He's pretty much abandoned his blog in Steemit and doesn't answer anyone's questions anyway.

I vote for creating a subreddit-like Steemit......I've always thought that could solve a lot of these issues....

Thanks for listening. By the way, I hope that I have not offended you, @nspart. Your post of course alarmed me, especially the vengeance part of it.

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Steemspeak is like cheers for me. It makes me feel like Norm form cheers. You wanna be where you can see the troubles are only about steem. You wanna be where everybody knows your screenname"

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I'm anti-social. I've just emerged from a deep depression actually. talking is not really my gig.

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Is this is a joke? Everything needs one token thus one reward pool to make it valuable but we could have multiple websites and trending pages perhaps one tag would p say which platform a post should appear on.

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that is true..

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In that case, I think an entirely new Dark Steemit should rise up.

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I don't think new coins are the answer. it's complicated enough as it is.
I am tired of people freaking out, it just continues to happen that someone is flagged, and then seeks vengeance. Two people in a row I just came across.

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If you create a substeem for another language like russian you don't want it to be dominated by english posting whales who have power by default. This is the main reason you need a separate token to seperate powers between different groups. To gain influence in a substeem you need to invest or post to that place first.

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Ooh, that's interesting proposal. I've missed that when it has been published.

Substeems could have their own rules, but I'd like to start small and just let users to create substeems. After they've been used for a while we can see what kind of problems come up. Then a possibility to create different rules can be given to get rid of the exact problems.

What are the minimum rules for a substeem so it can actually function as a group? I'd say: subscribe to substeem and whitelist/blacklist users (as I've proposed here).

About the new tokens for substeems, I'm not sure if they are needed. My initial thought is that they will only make the system too complicated without adding enough value to the community.

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I think that an alternative to separate tradable tokens could be a system that permits substeem's users accepts transfers only from members of that substeem, like a Walmart Sam's Club. The system also could have the option to limit the transactions only with steems mined into their members, avoiding eventual impacts from flooding of non-members users' steems.

I agree, but with "Home" page consisting only of people I follow, I can usually avoid the BO. Problem is, I still do have to search "New" and 'trending' now and then to stay fresh.
Perhaps if we could follow categories, or hashtags, as part of our homepages, that would help.

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Busy already has that feature, check it out.

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what is "Busy"?

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hmmm, I like the look!

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Great idea! Using followed hashtags as main way to set our homepages would be very helpful.

Glad you take this stance @stellabelle i do agree with what you say concerning Vengence, as it is a stupid and ignorant reaction to any provocation no matter how serious, as it brings you down to their level I feel. Best preserve the high ground in my opinion . It could be that we need to create a sub steem categorisation of content as you say, why not if that is what is necessary to keep this place as cool and as diverse as it should be !! But then its the ghettoization process which i think could break this community into a thousand pieces too so i am also not so sure if it will help things. I think its always healthy to raise points like this for discussion and I hope this post and its comment section will see the debate which is clearly necessary !! upvoted )

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the flagging is making us sore, and new people are always getting sore, and then leaving....

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Yes well i personally have just one brief problem with another account here !! He then went on to commit Steemicide by crossing swords with a few whales and he went down to rep 4 lasat time i saw !! i think he is gone too now !! We do need to stop this childish behaviour and people start to assume there place as an adult human being. The problem we see and face in this world is that it seems some people cannot live with other,s and even " Online " !! Its a sad state of affairs and if the human race is to evolve out of its monkey state they have to change !!

We need to flag every post.

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We can't be a 13+ site and an 18+ site.

Great post @stellabelle. The problem is that certain users get easily offended. This user seems to get mad at everything, Once I saw one of his posts and instead of flagging him I wrote my opinion on a coment saying that I wish Steemit didn't have those images, and that that was objectification of the woman's body, something completely valid, since I am a woman, now the user got offended and not only flagged my comment, but also started attempting towards against me in a personal level...
Now, users that post NSFW content, should be less sensitive over other people's opinion, in the end they are the ones posting controversial stuff.
He can start "a war" if he wants to, I don't care.
Steemit is too good to let trolls ruin it.
Thank you for sharing this post

Steem on

Yes! substeems. I am definitely for that. It seems inevitable at some point. I think it is already in the long term plan from what I've heard about @mughat's discussions with Ned. @mughat has written about it on his blog too.

I don't know if Sub Steems are such a great idea, I thought there was a muting option, I'm not sure, but anyway having that option you could just ban content from certain users you don't want to see.
I am not offended easily so frankly I don't mind whatever content or pictures someone puts up, but maybe there is some hate content I don't like also I don't like raw images you know of dead people or something like that, I could just mute it.
The tags are good but suppose I don't use them correctly either unwittingly or on purpose? And I do believe everyone has a right to post whatever they want and I also have a right to read or see what I want.
Of course I never did use Reddit so I don't know how things worked there.

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maybe groups is what I am searching for. most sites have "groups"

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Yes, I know what you mean, and I do think steemit should put something in place so you aren't seeing something you don't want,like you I am just suggesting what I think is best, I dont' really like flagging so I think there should be an alternative for the users.

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I think the real problem is that the posts are poorly organized. There is a very low signal to noise ratio and you have to search through many posts that don't interest you (most of which are merely uninteresting, but some of which are actively offensive), in order to find the posts that do.

IMO, a forum setup like 4chan or 2p2, that had tags but also sections and subforums would be a lot more effective than the reddit set up we have now for segregating the information in such a way as you could easily find what youre looking to read about with out being exposed to stuff you find distasteful.

interesting - "as above, so below" - we need communities - we need states, countries - not homogenized new world order - we are all individuals and we always will be - until of course, the NWO police change us into transhumans - but that is not now!

Interesting thoughts here @Stellabelle ...upvoted. Cheers and happy new year to ya.

I've given a "Dark Steemit" some thought, tho' not for NSFW content as such: I was thinking more along the lines of stuff you'd see on 4Chan.

Unfortunately or fortunately, that would require forking Steemit and starting afresh. It's not a bad idea - back in tha day, LiveJournal threw up a dark-sister Site called "DeadJournal" :) - but it would require a large gang of cryptonauts to get something like that off the ground. For one, it would require enough folks to be witnesses...

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4chan is the anti-christ.

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I am not sure why 4chan gets such a bad rap, they have some of the best trolls, they helped me pick out my car, offered information to improve my health, taught me about cryptocurrencies, informed me of Steemit's launch and they have even helped many men with a midnight diagnosis of what's that on their junk.

I can understand hating some of the boards on there, but to demonize the entire site seems like overkill. If 4chan ever dies Steemit and Reddit may end up with an influx of refugees asking Seriously, is this how it's suppose to look after coming in contact with rust?

The NSFW tag was brilliant and well thought out but some people just cant handle even that. As you had stated this demographic was actually slowing down. This little friggen flagging war has actually brought the adult content back to the trending page. This however is not the only place I see the flaggers abusing their power. I think the nsfw tag is sufficient.

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I like the way the nsfw tag works too. What I don't like the idea of is a miniature playboy feed taking over, and nspart's feeling of vengeance. I'm a woman. I am not into seeing women naked, exploited, and ripped open. That's just the reality of me. I can avoid what I want with the system, but I don't like to filter everything. What he was proposing sounded just really awful on a visceral level to my brain.

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Just know that this guy is a "flagger''

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which guy?

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@nspart he flagged my comment when I stated that I wish content like that wasn't on Steemit, and saying that it was objetifying the woman's body.

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yes, the flag wars..............

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I don't understand why he's crying so much over ppl flagging him when he does the same, it's just too funny !

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well, we are all forced to look at the big trending page....that's where everyone wants to be, on one page.

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yes, but nsfw tagged items are concealed from view by default

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At least users should be able to subscribe to tags. Otherwise there will be no community.

I think sub-reddit system could be the better solution. I also agree when you mention Medium as a good model to Steemit, I think they assembly the home page showing posts based in the visitor's history of navigaton and preferences. If you're interested, I wrote another suggestion few days ago: Steemit Knots, an idea of places to share subject specific, group created content on Steemit.

Yes I think you're right.

If you remain in your comfort zone change is improbable.
No change is death.
Life that rewards you with too many dreams corrupts your character.

Put me down as being against things that separate us into good enoughs and nots.

I do appreciate the NSFW tag personally I'm not interested in seeing pornography.
There is a ton of great content on steemit and I'd hate to see it devolve into a block chain pornhub as our poster threatened the other day.
It will be interesting to see if there becomes sub groups or private invitation only groups.
I always find it funny when people post things they know may be offensive to some others then respond to said offense by getting over the top meltdown offended.

Yeah, Steem absolutely needs groups to get to the next level.

As you describe in your post, people will go to war against each other if they are forced to live in a same community. Fortunately this is just a technical problem so it can be solved quite easily. Let's give people a chance to create separate groups so they don't have to see every day people they don't like.

There are groups in Facebook and subreddits in Reddit. Currently tags can't be compared to subreddits because they lack important features, such as subscribing, and preventing unwanted users to post to them.

My solution to the problem is to create tags that can be owned: Feature proposal: Ownable tags

Owner of the tag can decide who can post using that tag. This effectively creates group function to Steem because it gives the owner a right to decide who belongs to the group and who doesn't.

This will also make the user experience much better. Currently I'm not using Steemit very actively because here is just too much noise.

I'd like to subscribe to topics, not users. It's hard to find consistently good content because authors don't usually stay with one particular topic (that I'm interested in). They write about lots of different topics and relatively big portion of their posts are not really that interesting.

The noise level would go significantly lower if I could subscribe to topics instead of users. That would make me use Steemit much more than I currently do.

Don't the different SteemTrails let people follow specific topics? If someone followed just the trails they were interested in, their feed would filter out problem content already. For example, I look at every post related to foraging or gardening, and put many of them on the @foraging-trail or the @gardening-trail. The idea is to build community around those topics. As the community grows, even more refined trails can be set up, like @organic-gardening-trail or @herb-trail. There was originally talk that those trails would have their own custom webpages, too, as their topics grow. There are a lot of different topic trails, like the @travel-trail, the @music-trail, the @gaming-trail, etc. By following their preferred trails, the broader curator efforts like @curie, and a few people, somebody could have a nice feed that aligns well with their interests and values.

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Trails may be good for some people, but for me and also for newbies I don't think they look that interesting to follow. I want all the information of my choice directly, not filtered through some other person/group with their own interests and biases.

My goodness, what is the issue with ignoring a particular tag? Flagging is for abuse...so we need sub steems because we can't agree on the definition of abuse? When you call a person's livelihood and creativity abuse, how do you expect that person to react? They are going to feel attacked and defensive.

I am vehemently against any exploitation of or violence against women but consenting adults doing porn is not exploitation.

We can't hide from the world and it's ugliness, we have to stop lying to ourselves and see it for what it is. We have to understand why the system produces so much exploitation and the consenting behaviours it does. Changes need to come from root cause, not attacking the products of those causes.

Additional layers of organisation within Steemit would be great for a more personalised experience and more efficient discovery.

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@stellabelle, firstly, a very Happy New Year to you - wishing you abundance and the very best of health - I was sorry to read that you have been down (litotes).
What a great post you have written here - so positive, so forward thinking and with the news that the cartographer is still on holidays, let's give her/him some ideas as to the town/rural/infrastructure/etc planning!
Thank you so much for your positivity!
Well worth the effort you have clearly made.

It's unfortunate that people get so tribal and take offense to content that isn't what they personally want to see. I'd like to have the content formally divided into different categories, such as long articles, short form posts, video, music, wikipedia/FAQ information, gambling, NSFW, etc. In the meantime, if people don't like certain content, they should use the tags or adjust their feeds.

To be honest, i think it would be far easier to create a "light" steemit, where NSFW is just completely hidden, rather than create a dark steemit and turn the current regular steemit into "light" steemit.

if that makes any sense.

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You mean creating a safe space?

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I suppose so (though i despise the term). I guess my point is that right now, good, bad or indifferent, steemit.com is the one and only way to access content on the steem blockchain.

That being the case, I think it should include as much content as possible. As much as possible (while still maintaining mainstream appeal) steemit should be the "anything goes" site, and if there is a need for a site that excludes specific types of content, that should be the new site we create.

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I don't know who the "we" is.
But maybe a solution would be that, the safe spacers, would create a whole different platform themselves.

People like going and being with like-minded people, and I really think if we were to approach tags from a different angle that it could provide some of what you're requesting, @stellabelle .

The first thing I wanted to do when I first got here was to look at the photography "section" to see what people were already posting. Personally, what I really want on this site is an index page of any and all tags which continually grows whenever people create new tags when they post, and maybe even a number next to each tag indicating how many posts are associated with it. Right now the most easily accessible thing we have is the list of tags that make it onto the right side of the home/feed page, and only when they get popular enough. That's a pretty short list, though.
I would much rather have a dedicated index page that shows all tags in whatever order I want. Give me filters to sort tags alphabetically, by most popular, most recently posted in, and creation date.
If Steemit were to really lean on the tag aspect of the site - perhaps by having it as the main page - people will gravitate to the tags they associate with the most, naturally congealing into subgroups.

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me too. it's really hard to find old posts!