Math and Steemit Voting Power
Hey everyone!
I see a lot of people posting about how you shouldn't vote when your VP is low, because you're wasting your ability to impact rewards distribution.
But that just isn't so.
While voting when your power is low may mean that you have less versatility, you are still using all of your potential. Here's some math, with explanations.
The argument goes
(and I've seen this many places, but most recently here https://steemit.com/steem/@taskmaster4450/pissing-away-hard-earned-steem-power-why - please don't think I mean any disrespect. We're all just trying to help new users) that when you keep voting at a low power, your votes are worth less, so you're not giving up to your full potential.
But here's why that isn't true.
When you vote, your voting power goes down, it does so in 2% increments (assuming you're using 100% voting strength for those of us with a slider - if you don't have a slider, don't worry, you'll get one someday!). But 2% of what?
2% of your current voting power.
Your voting power also goes up as time passes, up to 100%. It goes up continuously (not incrementally) by 20% per day. But 20% of what?
20% of your total possible voting power.
So, as you get closer and closer to zero, it takes more and more votes to reduce your voting power by 2% of your total voting power, but it always goes up at the same rate.
How does this work mathematically?
Let us set an arbitrary amount of time. We will begin this period at 100% voting power and end it at 100% voting power. Is there a voting method which makes it so that we have distributed more than any other voting method?
We can...
- vote once every 2.4 hours exactly, thereby always voting with 100% vp
- vote a whole bunch times in a few minutes, then wait for it to recharge and repeat
- vote a whole bunch all the time (let's say once an hour), only waiting for it to recharge at the very end, when we need to meet the rules of 100% voting power at the very end.
Here's our test case scenario: a 100% vote is worth $1, and our arbitrarily chosen length of time is 10 days.
- $110 votes/day10 days=$100
- $1+.98+.9604...(lim->0) (Let's say 400 times all at once). Then wait 5 days (+20%VP/day) and repeat=$100
This is more complicated, so here's a Link to a spreadsheet - $1+.98+.008333+... (see column d in the spreadsheet)
Here's where I release this post into the wild, and you can help me make clearer any points that aren't clear.
No matter your voting tactics, you are going to distribute the same amount of value.
You can give me any scenario, and I can figure out the math (it might be tedious) to show that you'll deliver the same rewards overall as any other scenario... as long as you don't leave your votes unvoted at 100%.
Very Good use of your slide rule! :D
Great to know, but I still do prefer to have a big impact when I want it. Now all I have to consider is how long until I get the type of voting power I want for a particular statement. My "big splash" voting strategy has paid off thus far, but this definitely changes how I view the "less than full VP" times. COOL!
I'm following you now, I saw your "jack of all trades, except the hard ones" and I was Hooked!
I'm an electrician by trade, is that one of the "hard ones"? :D
It is! I dunno how I missed this comment so long ago!
My dad's an electrician, and I can usually eye something to figure out obvious problems, but yeah. That's one of the hard ones.
THANKKKKKKKKKKKKK YOUUUUUUUUUUUU. FINALLY!!! lol
someone detailed how this is NOT wasting my vote! its actually the BEST use of my vote,because it's NEVER going to be sitting at 100%.
and yes - i will be giving less to individuals... but to MORE individuals.
so in the end - it's being spent!!! and not wasted at all.
the only people that this matters to - are people who would rather have my 9 cent vote instead of my 1 cent vote hahahaha. sorry - but i would rather appreciate a LOT of posts with a little money and an encouraging comment - than a FEW posts with more money (and also an encouraging comment hahaha)
ok.... now.... do you also have a post that explains what the VESTS are? I think its related to steem power but i'm not exactly sure how?
I don't, but yeah it's gotta be related. I haven't been very bothered about them, because I haven't run into any circumstances where knowing would change my behavior. I am curious, though.
I think the same way... Although I did see something interesting on the steemd page... It said something like rewards vesting balance something or other. Hahaha
Now when I check... It's zero for me, but yesterday there was 102 in there. It just made.me wonder if there was something I wasn't doing that I should be.
Shrugs I guess there will always be confusing elements of steemit!
Thanks for responding :)
If it's tied to rewards, that would indeed indicate that it's tied to SP, since that's what determines the size of your rewards.
You say that it went from 102 to zero for you? Have you recently powered down? Or done anything else with your account that might impact your rewards negatively?
Edit: voila https://steemit.com/steem-help/@hisnameisolllie/what-are-vests
Of all the article, given my primordial hate for mathematics, I understood that: a. I will keep voting when I feel like; b. Not only you're an artist but also a matematician.. respect bro! c. Super cool picture..I see that the boss is always keeping an eye on you from the baby band thingy 😛
He keeps me on a tight leash.
Not to mention Mommy ;)
Well now I'm totally confused. After reading about this topic I'd finally settled on between 11 and 15 votes a day. The posts I read all seemed to say this and had mathematical "proofs".
However, I also read that you shouldn't let your voting power drop below 80% and I found that when I voted 11 times it dropped well below that. So I yesterday I spaced out my votes and made fewer of them so I'd stay above 80%.
Sometimes my vote seems to count for nothing (as in the update amount doesn't change) and sometimes it seems to make a difference.
I didn't expect to wake up to maths first thing in the morning, when I joined Steemit! 😁
Are you saying all those other posts are wrong, despite their mathematical proofs and that we should just vote as and when we want to with no detrimental effect?
Is this the best strategy for someone still waiting their first payout and only able to vote 100%.
My main goal at this point is to earn $2 Steem so I can join a curated group I've been invited to (assuming $2 Steem is a better way to pay than $2 SBD at the moment and that' a whole 'nother kettle of fish)!
So! First, strategy-wise, who knows? The best "strategy" for new members is really to find the contests (@mariannewest shares a bunch of them in her daily #freewrite posts) and win them. Many of the contests, especially the newer contests that offer small-ish prizes, have very few entrants. If you really give them your all, you have a good chance of winning a few SBD or Steem.
My second piece of advice is to not worry about voting strategy at all. Your influence at this point is worth $0.01 and less (you're still giving some even when the number doesn't change, but because it's less than a penny, it doesn't change the number. Don't worry all those fractions of a cent don't get lost. If a lot of people give fractions of a penny, it still adds them together.). Ultimately, just enjoy Steemit. Use it as a site to entertain and be entertained. The point of this post was, yes, to tell people not to worry so much about how they're voting. It's always "fair", i.e. those who carefully monitor their voting power and those who "overvote" are both allocating exactly as much as their steem power will allow, regardless of their "strategy". Now, if you want to give away 10 $0.01 votes instead of 20 $0.005 penny votes, then sure, pay close attention. But it's $0.10 either way.
Their mathematical proofs are why I'm posting this, because they all seem to miss a bit of math here or there in their calculations that make it seem like voting one way or another would change the overall weight of their votes. Yes, I'm saying they're wrong... but as politely as I can.
In conclusion, I recommend you pursue your goal by
.)
a) posting good (or at least original) content at least once a day
b) reading content that you think you'll enjoy anyways, and if you do, upvoting it without concern for Voting Power, and leaving a comment on it that is unique and that let's the reader of your comment know that you're not a spambot (avoid entirely the phrases, "I upvoted you, follow back?" and "great post."... though feel free to make your own unique memes that say great post, like this one I proudly made - and that I hereby give you permission to use if you want ;)
c) finding contests that you'd enjoy. One of my first big payouts came from https://steemit.com/steemit/@lepton/join-the-worst-steemit-contest-first-contest-where-loosers-win
I also recommend you follow, read, and interact with @papa-pepper. He just seems like a really nice fella.
Thanks for this. Seems like I have stumbled onto the "right" track. Hoorah!
Contests have been the way I've earned SBD so far. Won 3 in the first couple of days but none since but I'm learning where the competition is and where there is less. 😁
I'm posting at least once a day, usually 3 times and commenting on posts I genuinely find interesting.
I think I already follow @papa-pepper but will check.
The only thing I've got "wrong" from your lists, perhaps, is being overly concerned with the upvoting part. This week I'll just upvote whenever I think a post/comment deserves it and not worry about the stats.
"Yes, I'm saying they're wrong... but as politely as I can." I love it!
Have a fun day 😍
P.S. I think this reply would make a great post in it's own right.
Thanks! Maybe I will!
https://steemit.com/@minnowsupport
@minnowsupport
#untalented posts are often discovered by @steemgigs
also: steemgigs https://discord.gg/bs6QWmM
This comment is even more useful than the actual post! Thank you very much, @improv
Thanks. Yeah, the post is mainly just to correct a common and oft repeated falsehood. This comment is advice. :)
Thanks for posting this explanation @improv ...I was previously going off the understanding of taskmaster's assessment (of which you linked in this post). I'm glad to have this cleared up for me. Resteemed and followed, as a career minnow, I eat up this good info. :D
CAREER minnow? Nah. You'll be a dolphin before too long.
Thanks for the encouragement... I suppose it will depend on how successful I am at avoiding angering a whale, lol.
Uh-oh. Are you doing things that will anger whales? They're hard to anger... but you know the big no-nos, right? Abusive behavior and stealing content. Aside from that, you're good.
Yeah, no, there is only one whale I'm afraid of... the one everyone knows about and dares not mention his name in the wild for fear of being randomly trampled (he has an SP'd up bot army that he has automated to tail any user he pegs and he uses to destroy minnow and dolphin accounts for as he says, the fun of it). His user name rhymes with Fernie Slanders, hehe.
Hey now, no need to fear our Caped Crusader @berniesanders! Unless you are a reward pool rapist, that is. I see good points on both sides of that argument, but we do indeed "self-policing" @steemit because there is no actual moderation or administration staff for watching abuse of the system. I have seen a lot in just a few trips to the #steemit posts and the alternative is less freedom, infinitely MORE Censorship, and a default mode of fear of "what did I do now" most of the time. IYKWIM!
I missed this one now.
I really don't know what's happening with all the drama I've seen. Do you want to break it down (from multiple perspectives, if you can?)
What would you recommend for someone like me, whose vote is worth $3? I curate organically, AND I'm on a chain I trust. I use the slider so I can organic-vote more often and still have it count toward my chain. Somehow I feel like this is the middle ground to spreading the love. I dunno.
Am I out to lunch?
What's your take?
I don't know what a chain is. I think as long as you're never letting your VP touch 100%, you're having the greatest impact you can. Any other nuance is up to you. I can tell you that I use my slider thusly:
100% upvote to any valid pun on my Punday post.
No upvote to any comment I think is spam
5-10% upvote (> $0.01) to comments I think are worth responding to.
1% upvote to comments that don't add much value, but that are not spam, I don't think.
25-100% upvote to comments and posts from accounts that are much smaller than me that I think are being run by real people who are assets to the community
100% upvote to the freewrite prompt
Sometimes, if it's getting close to Monday, when I know I'll be soliciting new puns, I move my slider down considerably, so that I'll be in the 90s when I'm voting on punsters.
But also, I don't worry about it much. That, above, is just how I think I naturally behave. I sometimes act outside those parameters, and I don't really worry.
$3 is great, but still isn't the place where I think one needs to worry so much about what one does with it. I guess you're starting to get to the point where you can boost a young post into the Hot feed if it's already got some action behind it.
But my true hot take is, if every minnow and dolphin just voted their heart (and whales did, too, but weren't as strong... perhaps they could delegate all but 20k SP to increase the influence of minnows they admired), rather than voting for profit, we'd have a healthier ecosystem.
That feels about how I vote. I think it's fairly natural to want to give more to the quality stuff. I like to do 100% to freewrite stuff. But now I don't think my vote is worth that much, actually. It's gone down this week. Eitherway, I wanna give my boost to the writers.
That's because of the falling price of steem, and doesn't have to do with your voting power.
Very interesting theory and much to use information, thanks. Resteemed for many to see, maybe will be interested.
You're welcome!
Excellent points! I hope this post goes viral.
Or even bacterial!
lol
This is very helpful. Thank you. Tomorrow ill be 1week old in steemit.
Congrats on your birthday!
Interesting Analysis Friend.
I suggest setting up a FanBase on streemian. Vote at 20 minutes after posts for your favorites. For example, I set mine up to always vote for you. I set my power at 10%. I might be able to set it at 5, but I haven't tried. I vote for as many people as I can at 10%. That allows my power to regenerate. Someday my %10 vote will be worth more than it is, but I want to help many, not just a few. AND I only vote for people I know blog regularly and produce content I like. ALSO, it helps me not miss great articles. I can check steemdb or steemd to see what I voted on, then I can go back and read what I missed while I am away taking care of family. Just a thought.
Maybe! I'm still active enough that I use a lot of voting power just voting things as I read them! Thanks for the suggestion, though!