Fractured community... Can we build bridges?

3 months ago
72 in steemit

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Steemit as a place already has its factions and different groups of people. Behind the scenes discussions that primarily happen off the block chain can be quite revealing. There are some factions that will not be able to function too well together. I am currently trying to think of how bridges can be built between them. What can we do to keep factions from attempting to force their will upon all others?

Those last two sentences above are really what I'd like an answer to. Now I am going to describe one faction/group of people and what their beliefs about how steemit should work appeared to me after observing and attempting to interact in their discussions.

There is a group of people that believe that the ONLY people that should be getting a reward are those that invested in steem by spending money. Some of them will refer to the content creators as being people producing very little of value and just seeking free money.

The hours you may put into building your content, and the work you do to try to get better at crafting content by trial and error, apparently has NO VALUE. They think your reward is coming to you for free.

Sadly these people fail to recognize that the money they purchased steem with likely came from a job where they have a contract and work for a business that pays them a wage. That wage is an exchange for their TIME.

If creating content has no value, then neither does their work for the business that pays them a wage. Both are exchanges for time.

However, a wage is a guaranteed contract. Unless you manage to get fired, you will consistently get paid, even in many cases if people are slackers and lousy at their job.

Content creation takes TIME just like a job. The difference is it is currently a gamble. The content creator may get nothing, a small amount, or if they are fortunate may be rewarded nicely.

Yet this faction calls that getting FREE money.

I tried to tell them that if they only rewarded investors who bought steem then technically it really would be no different from other crypto currencies. That is what they do. People buy the currency, watch the price and trade it based upon its fluctuation in value.

If that is the mentality then in reality there would be no reason for the social media side of things.

Steemit has several attractive qualities and likely more than I am going to list now.

  • Unlike other social media sites the people using the site are rewarded for their participation. This encourages becoming INVESTED personally into the platform. It also insures a steady flow of content.
  • Part of that reward comes in the form of long term investment (steem power) which is stakes.
  • This gives the content creators a VESTED interest in remaining and fighting for their platform. It is not as easy for them to say SCREW THIS and leave. They can do that, but they'll be leaving behind an investment, unless they take the time to power down, and coming back to get their power downs might end up sucking them right back into participating

Steem as a block chain has even more potential, and yes you could run it as a traditional crypto currency with ONLY rewarding the investors. That is if you only see investment as monetary and don't consider time an investment.

In reality, both the content creators and the investors need each other. Neither side would work too well without the other, and they would certainly be not much different than any other projects that have happened in the past other than the steem blockchain being faster than other blockchains.

To me the investors (monetary only) group made me think I was listening to modern day slave owners. "I spent money on this plantation, and you damn workers want to get paid for picking my cotton! Damn freeloaders."

Steem On!




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62
  ·  3 months ago

You summed up what many people have been saying for several months. It took experience to illustrate the situation. Thanks @abit.
I still have not understood why investors and whales could determine and distribute rewards to each user and particularly to certain users, certain subjects. In a company, it is not the role of the shareholders. Such a strategy gave the appearance of a Ponzi scheme.

60
  ·  3 months ago

people that believe that the ONLY people that should be getting a reward are those that invested in steem by spending money

But that's not what code says ?

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62
  ·  3 months ago

This is the difference between codes and human behavior ... and codes can not predict all human behavior. They are made by humans not perfect!

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72
  ·  3 months ago

To get their wish they'd need to fork the code and make it so ALL rewards were curation rewards given to investors (monetary) only. Yet, there likely wouldn't be much content to curate then either.

To which they might not care about that, but then I ask how is it different from any other crypto-currency at that point.

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60
  ·  3 months ago

I'm not sure if that should be taken 100% seriously.
As @remlaps pointed out, there's a lot of talking about annihilation of curation rewards indeed and sometimes I also use to ask people pushing that - "how about getting rid of author rewards as well ?" )

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72
  ·  3 months ago

The person I was debating with got quite heated about it. Claimed I wanted to rewrite the Principles of Economics books.

I did point out those books have been rewritten several times, and that there were actually several schools of economics. :)

64
  ·  3 months ago

W00t! W00t! Fine summation and I share the same opinion on the value of people's time and especially effort. Steemit only moves forward with great original content, not squabbling over pretty nominal payouts.

I say nominal in that if you consider me, my posts average around $10 for 4-5 hours of work. At a post per day, that's far less than what I make on similar freelance writing platforms where I can average about $10-15 an hour.

I imagine this math breaks down very similarly for most mid-level content producers, which (I am somewhat assuming) are the bulk of who contribute original content.

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72
  ·  3 months ago

And $10 is a good post by most standards. Many people are producing for anywhere from $0.00 to $1. That is where I started. I wrote a lot of pieces that were paid $0.00 and many of them I put considerable time. I stopped trying to predict as often a piece I worked hard on would make nothing, and a piece I just wrote on a whim and didn't think would do particularly well would do great. So I just create the content I am inspired to create. If it is rewarded great.

Yet these people indicate I am a free loader though I now have commited close to 1000 hours to steemit beginning in July. There are plenty of other things I could have used that time for AND made more money if money were my primary goal. Yet to refer to me and those who work to make this platform have content as free loaders and as though we have no value. That is an insult. I don't know if it is because the people saying this have no talent to create content themselves, or what. I have no clue. I was actually kind of shocked to hear this reaction.

I have other projects not related to steemit that have been very much stalled due in large part to the time I spend on steemit. Had I remained focused on those things I likely would have a lot more money right now. In fact, I should be working on those things. Yet I saw my time INVESTED into steemit as me trying to help steem/steemit be something bigger in the future. I don't have money to buy steem. I do have time to invest by making content. Yet, if there is no return to me on this investment then I have other things I can do instead. I get no ROI on Facebook, Reddit, etc and for that reason I really don't use them much though I have. I have better things to do.

Yet if I was not potentially working to invest in something those sites are far nicer designs. So why would I write or create here. Sure it is censorship free, but let's face it the majority of the content here likely wouldn't be censored anyway. Some of it might, but most of it would not. So if the time investment of the content creator is not worth anything then there are much better developed platforms for making content if we are not to be rewarded.

You'd also be destroying one of the things that makes steem/steemit/busy/golos have future potential.

If you think our content is CRAP and worthless, let's see you do better...

63
  ·  3 months ago

Really? I don't go in chat, but from what I've seen on the block chain, the "free money" aspersion comes from authors and investors who want free access to the information that voters provide. And I have the same reaction to them as your closing statement.

The only way I can imagine to bridge the gap between groups is to back up from the specific issues that are so contentious for a while, and focus on working out some social norms for decision making.

I posted about this here a week or two ago.

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72
  ·  3 months ago

thanks I will be reviewing that in some detail. I gave it a quick look and initially think it looks informative and has potential. I went ahead and resteemed it though it is days old because it is well put together and it will make it easier for me to get back to it. :)

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72
  ·  3 months ago

I prefer to do everything in chat, but some things happen only on steemit.chat which is where I heard what this article is about, other things are talked about on various discord channels.

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63
  ·  3 months ago

As an outsider to chat, every time things blow up there and land back on the blockchain, it just seems toxic to me.

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72
  ·  3 months ago

Yeah I wish it could remain all on the blockchain. One problem is that these discussions often involve some of the most powerful accounts in the steem ecosystem.

69
  ·  3 months ago

Artists enhance our lives by dedicating themselves to being better at what they do. They are often poorly rewarded for doing this as people don't seem to want to pay for entertainment now. Without their content Steemit would be nothing.

61
  ·  3 months ago

"Steemit as a place already has its factions and different groups of people. Behind the scenes discussions that primarily happen off the block chain can be quite revealing. There are some factions that will not be able to function too well together. I am currently trying to think of how bridges can be built between them. What can we do to keep factions from attempting to force their will upon all others?"

We thank you @dwinblood for your bravery Sir. I can't be the only one that noticed you building this NEW BRIDGE to bring us ALL together. Your podcast last week was a rare treat for me to actually HEAR your WISDOM first hand. Just in case anyone did not get that opportunity to LISTEN, please allow me:

https://steemit.com/votu/@beanz/v-o-t-u-podcast-8-makes-love-with-the-community-with-part-2-the-poetic-words-of-dwinblood

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72
  ·  3 months ago

I can stumble over my tongue when I have to say it out loud. This can happen with written word too, but I tend to catch such things more regularly. :)

EDIT: and when I listen to myself I chuckle and say well there is why I had three year old kids that would regularly use the word "actually" and have other adults laughing. They heard me use it growing up probably far more often than necessary. :)

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72
  ·  3 months ago

Yeah already saw that one. Up voted it. :) I do try to do those things. Sometimes I fail, but all I can do is work to improve upon my failures. At least until I learn a new way to fail, then I'll learn from that as well. Yes, there will be successes. Those tend to be when things go as expected/hoped. So that is why I am putting emphasis on the failures, as those tend to be the unexpected/unforeseen things.

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61
  ·  3 months ago

I commend you @dwinblood putting yourself out there, even on a podcast. If everyone clicked that link and truly understand those 4 simple agreements. They would ALL be untouchable like having a SUIT of ARMOR.

67
  ·  3 months ago

Thanks for this nice summary... which I largely agree with.

My question to the "investors" is simple: "If you want this to purely be an investment opportunity, why on EARTH would you create this social blogging venue as the backbone for marketing your idea? Just create a coin and say HEY! Here's our COIN!"

Oh... you wanted differentiation... that marketing magic that sets you apart from an ocean of other alt coins with great ideas? But now you don't want to support the creators of the differentiation you felt was needed?

Sorry, does not compute.

Oddly enough, the "investor class" is possibly the most entitled group on the planet... I'm not talking about Steemit, but life in general. They stand there with a handful of money and insist on a 10% return for nothing more than "standing there and breathing," while the venture they are invested in might only have a 5% growth potential... yet they feel "entitled" to have that 5% gap filled, out of empty space.

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61
  ·  3 months ago

Not sure if you heard of Holacracy?

It's NEW to me...but I can relate it to Steemit somewhat.

https://steemit.com/business/@remlaps/7-videos-about-holacracy-a-social-technology-for-human-self-organization

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67
  ·  3 months ago

That was new to me, too... thanks for the link. Could it be applied to Steemit? Very likely, but there needs to be more of a consensus that "we're all in this together," because at the moment it seems like people are pulling in different directions... and mostly in a well-meaning way.

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61
  ·  3 months ago

(this is from my earlier comment above)

We thank you @dwinblood for your bravery Sir. I can't be the only one that noticed you building this NEW BRIDGE to bring us ALL together. Your podcast last week was a rare treat for me to actually HEAR your WISDOM first hand. Just in case anyone did not get that opportunity to LISTEN, please allow me:

https://steemit.com/votu/@beanz/v-o-t-u-podcast-8-makes-love-with-the-community-with-part-2-the-poetic-words-of-dwinblood

I am trying @denmarkguy to help with this NEW BRIDGE, we could use more HELP...

72
  ·  3 months ago

I'm surprised some people think that way because it is false by every account and incredibly short sighted. Content creation ultimately increase the value of steemit.com as a website and increase the potential reach through the search engine and social media.

Also, Steemit.com setup is a distribution mechanism to get cryptocurrency into as many hands as possible and therefore the best way to bootstrap a cryptocurrency market. How many people have been introduced to cryptocurrency via Steemit.com is staggering.

There is indeed some people from who are here to extract but those people don't get too far since their content usually sucks.

As for investors, they will be rewarded but that will happens through time by having a platform(or platforms) that are used by millions of people...not thousands.

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72
  ·  3 months ago

Sadly these same people think all the content here sucks. Yet, my challenge to that is... then do better yourself.

68
  ·  3 months ago

There's an argument to be made that the "investors" are freeloading off those of us who create content. In fact, unlike investment in businesses, the blockchain would generate the coins whether they participated or not, so they are entirely superfluous. How about a little gratitude to those of us who help produce the content that differentiates Steem from the hundreds of other startup cryptocurrencies, hmmm? [/rant]

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72
  ·  3 months ago

Well and the fact investors typically invest in a company as stake holders that has a product or service. They hire and pay employees to produce that product or service.

These investors want to invest and just pretend the people producing the products and services don't exist.

65
  ·  3 months ago

Without content creators Steemit is just another cypto-currency. People that are investing in Steem and not the content picked the wrong cypto and should look for something else.

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72
  ·  3 months ago

That was my argument. Yet it seemed to fall on deaf ears.