How do you feel about Hard Fork 20?

in steem •  8 months ago 

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It has been over a month since Hard Fork 20 activated. While it had some issues being deployed, it has stabilized at this point.

How do you feel about the changes in Hard Fork 20?

I want you to ignore the lost voting power during the switch, and the rocky cutover. Pretend the hard fork went perfectly, and today is the day after the fork.

  • How do you feel about the changes?
  • Will they help or hurt Steem from growing?
  • Are we in a better or worse position than Hard Fork 19?
  • What do you wish made it into Hard Fork 20?

For the last question, keep in mind Hard Fork 20 is a change to the blockchain, and not the front end. Many changes can be implemented in the front end (i.e. Steemit.com, Steempeak.com, Busy.org) and do not require changes to the blockchain itself. Let's focus on things that require a Hard Fork change and not UI issues.






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I don't think it's making a huge difference to me. I know a lot of new users were struggling site to lack of mana initially, but I've not heard much about that recently. I've not created any new accounts yet. It does seem that certain voting farms can still operate. I'd hoped it would affect them more. Overall it's a 'meh' from me, but I may not be seeing the bigger picture.

I know it does affect how new accounts are created and that Steemit are still creating most of them. I just hope there are not as many fakes as before. We need real people on Steem.

We waited a long time for it, but it just doesn't seem that dramatic to me.

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What has been dramatic for me is not having to wait so long between making comments.

I try and reply and upvote almost every comment that I get and it used to be so slow and tedious. The difference in speed now is night and day.

Well Everyone said this was the answer to speeding up and onboarding new users. My friend just signed up, it took one week to approve his Steemit account. I needed to explain the keys he was so confused. Did it get any easier for the non crypto.......not from the frustration he shared with me. If we don’t fix this problem, we will not grow🙃

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the keys thing is ridiculously complex. I still don't really get it. Im sure random people out there in the world will be immediately turned away when they get to all of that nonsense.

Posted using Partiko Android

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This is an explanation of keys that I wrote a long time ago. Share it with your friends or create your own version to blog. It is not a fix, but it can help folks understand the keys better.
https://steemit.com/life/@socky/do-you-understand-your-steemit-keys

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Thanks @socky. I know steemit will get easier, it can be difficult for newbies.... :)

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I have a hard enough time just trying to get friends to try Steemit. I think you are right, we need to improve this. We also need much better instructions on how everything works on Steemit. I dig and dig to find out how things work. This is like a online game with no instructions, you don’t know how to “ play the game “. The whales know, but they are not telling us.....

I would say it was a huge improvement regarding on boarding and resource credits. Same with curation.

Now that the launch is behind us I'm glad for having forked.

I dunno`? How do you feel?
I don't seem to be making as much rewards.
But that could be because I'm not loading spicy enough gifs.

Wassup!

What do I think about the aftermath of HF20..? Good question, @themarkymark :-)

I think in general the aims stated are noble and good. Of course we all agree with all the preparations, made for the eventual implementation of SMT's, are necessary and good; if you're not convinced about the possible gains for the steem blockchain to be had from facilitating the development of targeted Dapps, just take a look at what's happening with EOS right now.

The thing that has everybody worried, myself included, is the balance we have to find between granting users (especially new users) enough RC to freely move around and be active and engaging on one hand, and not enough RC to start abusing the blockchain with bots and spam posts / comments on the other. I know you personally do a ton of work to catch these accounts, something you don't get enough credits for I think, but it would be nice if there's a balance to be found so this type of misuse is discouraged in the first place. And I do have the feeling that there's a lot less shit-comments at least, but I could be wrong of course.

Looking around in the comments here and in many other posts about the subject, I am worried; if it is true that new users can only normally use steemit if someone delegates SP to them, then something is wrong still with that balance. Spam is a pain in the ass, and so is the abuse of bots to upvote shit-posts onto the trending page; this takes many hours of your time too, hunting them down occasionally. Steemcleaners and @cheetah and people like you are still necessary I'm afraid. If the RC limit has to be raised to give new users room to breathe, It's my opinion that we would have to take the spam and bot-abuse on the cheek and deal as best we can with them. Closing the front gate to new users is the wrong thing to do, however noble and righteous the intended goals.

Having said that, there may be ways to solve this front gate problem with leaving the current RC limit intact. Is there a way, for example, to collectively donate or delegate SP into some sort of new-user-pool from which SP can be delegated to committed new users? I would donate for that. Also we could to something to lower expectations for the outside people coming in; I know steemit inc. does very little in ways of promotion and advertising, but is there a way for the community to pick this up? And promote steemit in a way so that new users don't come here with the idea of making some easy money on the side, but with the realistic idea of basically having to start over building a network of their own?

I can't organize these things as I often lack the time to even post once a day, an ironclad promise I made to myself and to @helpie, so I'm just thinking out loud here. And probably said some things that are addressed already or are just plain wrong; so please correct me if that's the case.

Thanks for keeping the discussion alive and for all you do for steem, steemit and @helpie :-)

One thing I had hope would happen is STINC withdraw all their faucet delegations and start over with the new RC system. That's assuming they've fixed their broken sign up process.

That would have hurt most of the existing vote farms as well.

I'm frustrated with the assumption from Steemit Inc that everyone is a developer. Oh, If you want to create accounts with RC, you have to go to github and figure out how to code it for yourself. What really happens is that we have to wait until someone out there builds a tool to do it. What really bothers me is it is not safe for a non-developer. For us, we have to send our Active Key to another user so that accounts can be created on their computer. Thus they have our active key. How about if we want to know how much RC we have or voting power. We have to leave Steemit to do that. That is not a problem for a developer with 3 screens and handles multiple sites at once as a normal thing or builds themselves a dashboard. What they forget is that most users are not developers.

I hope Steemit can start retaining new users! It's a little scary and overwhelming to newbies!

More testing would have been nice but overall it's pretty decent.

The changes will probably help steem grow if leveraged right and the only thing I miss about the messy week is increased author rewards :^)

I like the idea of claimed accounts and applications with large steem pools can speed up the onboarding if new users.

I like the the RC system but it could be a bit more lenient to people with less than 50sp to not block them from interacting and I don't know if RC delegating to individuals will be enough to help all newbies transact before deciding to invest or earning their stake though participation.

I'm not really sure if HF20 is a good thing?
It probably depends on if all users need to understand fully how things work?
I think most of us don't understand how curation rewards now work? Can or can't I get any curation reward when I upvote within 15 minutes?

Personally I don't really like it. Cause it seems more difficult to fully understand how curation rewards work and to earn high curation rewards.
And I can't make nice profits via bid bots.

And last but not least a question about curation. Let's assume I self upvote my post after 16 minutes and I am the first upvoter. Will I then receive a curation reward from all upvotes that come in later?

I don't especially like the 15 minute curation thing, and I don't like losing half my voting power after delegating (although it could be fair), but overall, I think the hardford is excellent. I don't get 30 bots following me anymore right after I post, and then keep unfollowing until I post again. I can look for new posts using tags, and it's not flooded with spam anymore. Something had to be done about that. I'm very happy with the hardfork because of that.

  ·  8 months ago (edited)

Will they help or hurt Steem from growing?

One thing I noticed, which I wasn;t aware of - I used a dormant account (rep 25, 3 dollars sp or whatever), just to see how it worked - 'starting new' ,as it were...

I made one post and 3 or 4 comments, and that was me done - I have to wait to 'RC'

I cannot - for the life of me, see how this will help steemit.

IF this was a new account, (i.e I was new) and this happened to me - I would dhave said 'goodbye' to it there and then.

Having a social platform where you can't post or comment???...mmm. I see a teeny weeny bit of a problem there...

hi @themarkymark... I would like to say something. What do you think? Who benefits more on steemit.com by using this platform even the Hard Fork will come? Do you think @ned have cared to all people who are using Steemit?

I am just wondering why life is not fair. I am saying this because a lot of Steemians stopped using this platform. They already lose hope especially when @ned remove the delegation to @surpassinggoogle, everything is down! From NIGERIA to PHILIPPINES almost 75% stop using steemit.com because they did not get any support.

Now I understand very well why @dan resign and move away from @ned especially @officialfuzzy. I am sorry, I know this was very far from your blog but you are a witness. Maybe you know something.

As I see, only the whales and dolphins have the future here and the midgets like me are nothing compared to them.

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The future is in dapps and smts.. so a lot of delegations are coming out of steemit groups and are poised to support dapps and smts..’in the long run that is what steem and steemit needs to get the price Back up.. nowadays steemit is just one small part of a much more diverse ecosystem

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Thanks for the response @eco-alex! You are one of the big help in the community!

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Thanks kenn! I do what i can!

I have noticed a major change in the amount of spam since the change so, to me that is a positive.
Ren

The only but very big problem I have with hf20:
It made Steem less attractive for newbies. If you're new, you have to power up or ask for a delegation.
A fresh account can't even answer all the comments on his new post.
The RC is just too low.

That's the experience of many new steemians I talked to.

Posted using Partiko Android

This is based only on my personal experiences and interactions.

How do you feel about the changes?
In my particular case the changes have been exclusively positive -- I've gotten more attention and far more rewards than before HF20. But then I've only started one month before the fork -- was just getting the hang of things.

Will they help or hurt Steem from growing?
I don't know if it was just the anticipation of the fork or was it because HF20 was the real backbone that dApps needed, but there was a definite explosion in activity and development right after the fork. I feel like that's helping STEEM grow.

Are we in a better or worse position than Hard Fork 19?
The HF20 drew attention and made people concentrate on smaller members of the community, on newbies and strugglers. As a newbie at that time, I could say I was very fortunate.

What do you wish made it into Hard Fork 20?
Here I will just steal an old answer from a more respected and knowledgeable member of the community.

  ·  8 months ago (edited)

My answer ))
68c3da38-3549-4e5c-a5d1-5e6d113ae896.jpeg
If you need to build something new you need to crush something old

Spam is down. The new user RC system is prohibitive and needs urgent attention. Some verified account service where when you sign up with a verified phone number or similar you get delegated RC initially. I think that is how the DApps will go. Under the hood I think it is a step in the right direction and a necessary one before SMT's as otherwise spam proliferation on multiple levels of SMT's would have killed the blockchain.

Q: How do you feel about the changes?
A: Voting mana good, the rest, not so sure.

Q: Will they help or hurt Steem from growing?
A: Hurt, definitely, being hostile to the small guys hurts the platform. As an example, I recently had to move a discussion with a red fish who won a contest I ran to discord because she keeps running out of RC commenting.

Q: Are we in a better or worse position than Hard Fork 19?
A: Apart from features, and the red fish RC problems, HF20 as a showcase for the HF process definitely hurt the platform's credibility.

Q: What do you wish made it into Hard Fork 20?
A: A fix for the bidbot-user false reputation problem.

Im pretty happy about it. Didnt do much if anything to change my user experience, it reduced spam a bit and the stuff Steemit.inc says it did.
If theres any advantage under the hood for dapps, im happy.
Overall not much to add. Imo its only a semi-hard fork.

i know a lot of new directly finished their survey because they cant do a thing when it get changed... but lots of us had this problems...

But at least a NEWCOMER cant raise without help...

Also the hole between bigger and smaller users get much bigger because a lot of OLD STEEMIANS say why the hell i need to take a look for small ones... i want more and more POWER formyself but this is also not a HF20 selfmade problem but of the STEEMIANS... A lot of changes which makes it much harder than before... also i know about a lot of NON STEEMIANS which still wait for their LOGIN DATA for more than 12 WEEKS

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yes... I agree...

Scale-ability is great moving forward, which is the reason it was done.

I am sorry, but HF20 was the worst timing or the best depending upon how you look at it.

I think that the timing exposes the fact that the steemit block chain was a part of all the other launching s of block chains. So usability was a problem for long enough for steemians to notice all the other block chains popping up everywhere just as those other block chains where coming on line. This means that steemians will be spending less time on steemit as they spend time finding out about all the rest. I don't think this will be easy to over look as it will have the effect of slowing down steemit's growth, precisely because of the cost in RC.

Whether it will have the desired effect of making crypto harder to shut down through numbers of users. I don't know? One thing that the internet needs is more systems for locating addresses. That is the second weakest link in the crypto market. I am not going to mention the greatest weakest link yet as I don't think we are ready to address it yet. I will say this the Scale-ability of HF20 does have diamonds in the rough. It is up to us to find the advantages that will make the difference down the road.

Let's have a look at alexa
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/steemit.com

Oh, that doesn't look so good.. Since.. Well, it looks like since last hardfork :/

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How do you feel about the changes?

Very good! Very few spam comments and almost no phishing attacks.

Will they help or hurt Steem from growing?

Help. Once Resource Credits can be delegated, I will rent most of mine for profit because I have much more than I need for my own Steem activities.

Are we in a better or worse position than Hard Fork 19?

Much better because now an internal market for RC's and the ability to delegate them can be created which will make apps much better able to onboard their own users.

What do you wish made it into Hard Fork 20?

Early voting penalty no longer goes to the author of the upvoted post. I wonder if it had been better if the early voting penalty would've continued to go to the author - except in case of self-voting. I would much rather upvote someone early if I knew I would be supporting them instead of wasting some of my curation rewards entirely. But what I can't help but think is whether some people would've just switched over to self-upvoting early from alt.

Why upvote early? Because at least I hate waiting for 15 minutes before I upvote a comment in a fast-paced exchange. If I decide to do it later, I often forget. This could be solved by an UI delaying the vote but the only user having a large stake who has paid any attention to this idea is @acidyo. I'd like to hear from any app devs if they thought this was a good idea.

I've noticed that the change in early voting penalty has made many more users pay attention to maximizing curation rewards which has had the effect of increasing their use of SteemAuto. People seem to be commenting somewhat less now partly because when you'd upvote manually you'd also often leave a comment and because upvoting a comment now involves having to pay attention to early upvoting penalty.

Sorry for the delayed responses but this actually links in with the new updates on HF20. This is the comment i wanted to put on the update until i realised i could not with such low power;

This is great news even if this is first post since update for rc. i had also seen these problems being part of the accounts with low steem. Will this have a good big affect on new accounts as i think new users can very easily be put off using steem with the long times in getting an account?

And now after the update there are pros like possibly less spamming but also cons that new users can make very few comments without investing a lot into steem like myself who is really struggling with rc power for comments and therefore might put off new users from using steemit.

Sorry for the delayed responses but this actually links in with the new updates on HF20. This is the comment i wanted to put on the update until i realised i could not with such low power;

This is great news even if this is first post since update for rc. i had also seen these problems being part of the accounts with low steem. Will this have a good big affect on new accounts as i think new users can very easily be put off using steem with the long times in getting an account?

And now after the update there are pros like possibly less spamming but also cons that new users can make very few comments without investing a lot into steem like myself who is really struggling with rc power for comments and therefore might put off new users from using steemit.

it is much better for speedy account creation, I can create an account in all of my friends now using https://steeminvite.com thanks @pharesim

I like it. But it made it harder for small accounts to do stuff and be active. But it also got rid off alot of spammers. So thats awesome!

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HF20 is more difficult to all newbie because of RC's..how can a minnow grow fast if they can only comment few because of low RC's...

I know it's too late for them when they joined steemit but it's not fair at all! wish they will talk about it at STF3..hope it's the same last year that they will manage some via live stream.

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Not only that bro... You must know who benefits more. Only the whales and Dolphins benefits more!

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absolutely right!

I can not say nothing bad... it all works..:)
And to me it shows we try all time move towards the future.
And more I am in steemit... more I want know where we next go :)))

I hope there day cool.... here in Estonia all day dark and rainy :)

I'm ok with my personal position as a minnow, but I still fear for newbies not having enough RC to function unless someone delegates to them. I feel like it will deter a lot of people. I know they are working on delegating RC instead of SP, but it still requires someone to notice and help. And the spam comments came back anyway, which blew my mind - someone is wasting precious RC on a rep 25 account to leave spam comments??!
I basically haven't been promoting Steem since, because I feel like it's an automatic introduction to the system where people will think, "this sucks, this is stupid" and give up. When people don't understand blockchain or Steemit in general yet, even if I say, ok, I'm going to delegate you some SP so you can function to a friend, they're probably going to think that sounds fishy, like I'm inviting them to some pyramid scheme, since so many people still scoff and call crypto "magic money on your computer." They'll think, "why doesn't the system work without you helping me? It can't be very good." Without enthusiasm going in, I just doubt people will stay.

very good

I am only using steemit and other apps and my experience is limited to this when it comes to blockchain. So, after HF 20 I don't find much difference in how things have changed except my steempower still shows a negative value. What can be done to make it increase?

I miss All my spammers!! Lol ok not really.. generally things are much the same to me.. but engagement has truly bottomed out.. not sure if that is a bandwidth issue for minnows or a loss of momentum due to the 5 day vacation!

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