Enough bananas: Salaries on Steem

in steem •  5 months ago

To do what I want to do in this world is going to take trillions of dollars, I don't think I am going to be able to earn it. It is actually quite strange to think about money in some respects when things are said like, We can't afford to clean up the environment."

It is a pretty silly thing to say considering in most of the world the idea is to perform tasks that earn money so, why not earn money cleaning? It would definitely create jobs considering how filthy we are as a species but, it would also cost jobs in traditional industries won't it? And those jobs are in protected industries and generally the ones that are polluting the most or, managing the money of the ones who are polluting the most.

But, why need money at all is the next real question. Of course, it makes handling large sums easier and bartering products to eventually get what you want is a bit unwieldy. One day, I wonder what it is going to look like when we can upvote for goods and services. It already happens here considering utopian-io and several others pay their people through upvotes which means, out of the pool and not necessarily on content that adds value. The assumption is that the payment on a comment is on tasks performed that the community doesn't actually see. Where does this lead us?

You wanted investors on Steem?

I mentioned a long time ago about a situation where a company buys say, 1 million Steem and then their employees have an account created here. Let's say that they have 10 employees. Currently, 1M in Steem is a 100 dollar upvote which means, they can pay their employees with a 100% upvote a day.

But, the company keeps its capital investment and not only that, could increase it through the curation numbers. The employees gets paid in Steem, a potentially appreciating currency. That sounds like a better deal than in dollars and could possibly be used as a supplement for their normal income, they could go 50/50 on dollar/steem in their employment contract. Which would you take?

Paying without paying

I find this concept very interesting because it fundamentally changes the use case of Steem in this area as investors can use Steem to lower their capital requirements over time, keep capital requirements static and invest simultaneously.

Currently, 1 million Steem is about 1.7 million dollars. With all things remaining equal, if they want to pay their 10 employees 100 dollars each a day, 1.7 million will last 1700 days (assuming 7 days a week) is just under 5 years until the 1.7 million is gone. If paying in Steem though, after 5 years, that 1 million Steem is all still there, plus curation, plus price increase.

This of course opens a whole can of worms doesn't it? Everyone can do with their stake as they like which includes paying for services that are performed off chain, such as normal work tasks. The draw on the pool is also obviously a question because those tasks may have zero to do with Steem or the community at all.

A new payout order?

This already happens with devs, mods and the like and many delegated apps pay their workers from the pool, not from their earnings. It is quite a unique situation considering a business can run, have employees but, not have to actually pay them as long as they have Steem Power. The cost (besides initial investment) is zero unless you count the opportunity forgone to self-vote, which of course they will do with any remaining power as they self-vote things like, their company advertising material. This already happens too.

Now, this is far from my area as is often the case in what I write about concerning Steem but, this would completely change the landscape of Steem and shift it from content based reward, to off-chain service reward, where access to the pool (Steem power) is all that needs to be bought. This would also mean that the first people in will have the largest possibility to pay employees. But, they don't need employees do they? They can sell their vote to a company for access to the pool to pay employee salaries.

I wonder who is willing to pay more for votes, content producers, advertisers or, companies who can heavily change their tax liability profiles and massively reduce overheads?

Charitable efficiency?

Of course, there are other possibilities with this aren't there? For example, let's say a charity organisation which often loses 50-90% in 'administration' chooses to do the same. 1.7 million dollars in donations will give them 1000 dollars a day to distribute to 1000 accounts in a third-world country where a dollar a day is a significant amount. Of course, they can adjust their vote to keep providing the dollar to a family but, could service 2000 accounts if price doubles. They would distribute 50 cents of Steem value but, that 50 cents is worth 1 dollar US.

What does Steem become?

What happens when this starts getting used in such a way? What happens to content producers and distribution on Steem then considering the pool could essentially be locked up by corporations offsetting their liabilities?

This will of course drive Steem prices through the roof and for those who hold Steem in SP will be not only very well-off but, have the opportunity to sell their votes to companies just like they do to a bidbot for content producers now. But from the community aspect, what is the result? Is it a natural progression of the ecosystem?

For me, the intricacies and complexities of this require a great deal of thought and not being my area, I am missing a lot of things yet, I don't see why it isn't possible to do as long as there is a community of people who believe that Steem has trading value. For the SP holders the question is going to become;

How many monkeys can you buy with your bananas?

I am predicting that this is something that is going to come up in the future and, it is going to cause a lot of discussions, headaches and drama.

[ a Steem original ]

Btw, I couldn't find 3 bananas together in the right shape of the Steem logo so had to settle for two.

Authors get paid when people like you upvote their post.
If you enjoyed what you read here, create your account today and start earning FREE STEEM!
Sort Order:  

Interesting thinking, and i am sure it is happening, not the companies buying Sp but whales and earning from a reward pool whereas quality content creators are being pushed out. Of course it is not the first time when ideas pivot from their initial intentions :) You described model would work to some extent, increasing demand would drive the price upwards, hence benefiting early investors, and ROI remaining just about the same in proportion with an increased SP price. Until at some point some of those early companies would decide to sell and take the profits and may start a chain reaction where later entrants would dump their SP seeing that ROI just became 10 years then 15 years etc and the market should eventually crash. That would be a classic pyramid structure where early entrants earn and late entrants pay for it :) Speculation is always a viable option early in the game but without the intrinsic value, all such schemes always end one and only one way. Crash :) At some point it may start all over again, and follow the same life cycle of course, but that does not change the theory or the inevitable outcome.


Speculation is always a viable option early in the game but without the intrinsic value, all such schemes always end one and only one way. Crash :)

Yes, this just speeds the process. The only way it really can work is if there is actual creation of value somewhere along the line that feeds back into the system.


We are currently working on such a solution. We will see if we can improve on current model or not. I have listed all proposals and changes that will be implemented in this article if interested. https://steemit.com/photography/@bescouted.com/importance-of-token-economics-and-capturing-value-in-utility-tokens

I have a few bananas, but can only feed a couple of monkeys. I am probably feeding the wrong monkeys.


most likely now but perhaps in the future you will be able to feed a whole troupe of monkeys.

The draw on the pool is also obviously a question because those tasks may have zero to do with Steem or the community at all.

I'm OK with this. The investment sounds like it would bump the price short term, and longer term if the account was powering up. We need these businesses here, but for them to be using their own stake and not be so reliant on misterdele, if at all.


Imagine a start-up who just got a 10 million dollar investment to get off the ground and used 2 million to buy Steem to pay their employees over that time. They can always power down and sell if needs be and recoup some costs but, if it was a common practice, the investment would keep increasing so in 2 years from today, their 2 million investment might well and truly be outperforming the very business they got the capital grant for... :D


I am imagining this is possible :)

So say I have a trading company, and I want my standout employee go to big on the internet with his forecasts - I buy a load of STEEM, power it up and support him, and him only with $'000's a day - and earn $'000s a month for the company in 'interest'? (curation) NICE


It's a whole new spin on share options...


Plus as the steem price rises, the value of the upvotes to cover employees and op costs should also rise. Win win.


It also changes retirement plan potentials too ;)


Also, what if you jump up the food chain - a VC wants to invest in promising startups. Rather than directly invest the capital, it buys a ton of steem and delegates to the startups and they follow the path you've set out to cover their costs. VC preserves its capital and may make more in the increase in value of steem than from the startups themselves.... ;)

That math works with every amount of Steem. There is no place that one can get a 36% return on their money beside Steem. A 0.10 vote will get you $360 a year. Thats with 1000 steem right now at its price. If you put the equivalent amount in saving account at the bank you would make maybe at 3% that would gain you $34 in a year

This is what I am having problems with that the people don't understand it. Maybe it has not been explained in that manner where the avg person can see the value.


Maybe it has not been explained in that manner where the avg person can see the value.

THey don't read about it thoroughly and think even less. Most can't visualise much past tomorrow it seems.

Like you said, it is already happening. I think going forward we may need a little bit of luck by getting someone popular on the outside to test run such an investment model for staff...then, booom


This is kind of what my next post might be about... the 'boom'

Hi Taraz. Now that is thinking out the box. It would work but who would do it. Not enough people know what Steem is and how it works. If more people knew would they think like you? Would it be good for all of us. The reward pool would shrink if that happened as well. Then on the other hand it may increase the value of Steem. Still early days and anything is possible. I like how you think though, not many would think like that.


I have no idea where it would lead and how things like SMTs affect it but I don't really see that it isn't possible and when it comes to costs of transferring money across the world, Steem is the perfect vehicle to offset those costs too. pay a contracter a million worth in Steem on the other side of the world in 3 seconds. It is of course not ready for that kind of volume of purchase yet but, one day perhaps.


I hadn't thought of it in this way before. you are right though in thinking like that. I am not sure but have a feeling that a company can invest into something tax free as well. Imagine if that was a possibility that they could offset all their wages tax free from just a few investments.

It takes a very great mind to think in this direction.
The beautiful thing about the steem blockchain is that be it an off-chain application or within, one needs SP to benefit from it.

I came in late I feel but even now is early when one considers all the possibilities that steem holds.

I personally love the idea of people being able to freelancer here by creating high quality content that fits within a certain scoop of that originations/companies have set up. It opens the door to a very wide range of creative thinking that is also not bogged down by too much internal red tape. If they simply did not like the quality or felt like it was not within their mission statement of a scope they simply do not up vote it.

So far those kinds of places here tend to pay out with a certain range. The freelancer is able to set expectations on what amount of effort and there time can earn.

It also solves a lot of the other issues we seem to have here with trending, politics, and spam. If trending becomes even less relevant, if spammers can’t earn a cent here, and if people would stop wasting times being “fake friends” for bigger hands out of upvoters. We could move rather far as a platform. This also means company have a reason to invest heavily into Steem as once they have they can pay out those workers. This only works till steem is stop being printed. Then those heavenly invested companies could be sitting on a gold mine where they slowly power down to directly pay instead of upvote.

This more or less could be seen like a company expecting the currency they have a major holding in to become lesser valued over time so they might transfer over into another currency a few months to many year’s worth of salary and operating costs in their attempts to save money down the road. Like buying steem to payout for work in form of upvotes it has its risks.


I am not talking about freelancing in this though, they might not even need to post themselves. the company could potentially just create the account, add a place holder post and vote on it. Or a comment string.

There are so many various possibilities here but we concentrate heavily on the tip of the iceberg. It is going to be interesting how it progresses.


They could leave it blank but that leaving a perfect opportunity not used.

Imagine a call center that focused on text support. Customers leave there non-private information here for basic questions. Someone answers it and gets reward if the customer says it fixes there issue. If the customer was not a total pain in the butt they could get a small little upvote as well for following directions and not wasting peoples time. If they where they get a down vote that hurts there reputation over the long run and forces them to buy a new account to keep trolling or being overly aggressive towards customer support.

The blockchain itself is solving some of the set up costs to running certain services. There are so many different business applications.

If enough companies start to use steemit they can just take advantage of the skill sets that are already here form accounting, graphics designer, coding, consulting, and blogger, media manger and pay all with just upvotes posts that meet there need. Since we already have public and private keys I’m sure someone could set up so have posts that need to be encrypted be as such.

If anything our past posting/comments could be a way to see who to hire and who not. Which would be an issue for many since they can't go back and clean things up.


The blockchain itself is solving some of the set up costs to running certain services. There are so many different business applications.

There is definitely a very wide assortment of applications that are going to come about and there is obviously already interest in blockchain for supply chain management solutions as it is a perfect medium for it. Going to get very busy in the blockchain world :)

I also want to do a lot of things that require so much money that I do not think I'll do everything, but I hope to fulfill some of that list

Woow I'm surprised the value of a million of Steem surely in a few days will be much more when this goes up

I liked what you did with the platonos is fine

See what happens in the future and if this happens maybe it would not be so bad

Informative post , thanks for your information .
Good job , carry on .

Thanks for sharing @tarazkp
Upvote you .

One thing that may have been missed here: The reward pool is limited. That amount of money is fixed for each block that is produced.
It means that the current correlation of 1M SP to 100$ vote value is only valid in today's environment, with today's distribution of SP among the current users.
When you add more users and more SP to the mix, it will require more than 1M SP to get a 100$ vote.
At least, that's how I understand the workings of this platform. I leave this on the table for further discussion and comments...