Promoting a Scam Makes You a Scammer

in scam •  2 years ago

There are more and more posts and posters promoting this BitConnect "p2p lending" scheme and it's time to call it out for what it most likely is: a scam.

Specifically, it looks like a ponzi scam. Ponzis funnel money from new "investors" to the scam's operator and previous "investors". The previous ones are then able to vouch, either naively or dishonestly, for the investment scheme as being "legit" to new investors.

These scams have come in many forms. When they're online, most often they'll have referral links to incentivize people to promote them even more.

I'm certainly not the first to cast doubt on this service, and not even close to being first on Steem either! Check out these posts from Steemians who do a better job of showing how wrong BitConnect looks to anyone familiar with what a ponzi scheme looks like:

Bitconnect SCAM by @fraserb

The BitConnect scam exposed by @thegrinder


But exposing the scam is not the purpose of this post.

The purpose of this post is to put Steemians on notice that promotion of BitConnect with referral links makes you an active, profiting participant in the scam.

Steem is meant to onboard and introduce people to using a blockchain for the first time. If you're enticing someone new to this frontier to join up with a ponzi scam, and they get burned, you're working counter-productively towards that goal. Smart money/cryptocurrency has enough of an issue with its reputation and it doesn't need to get worse. Furthermore, if these scam links proliferate any more, Steem itself may gain a reputation of being full of scammers.

If you currently are promoting and linking to a probable ponzi, please reconsider the harm you may be doing not just to Steem and its users, but smart money/cryptocurrency in general. You may even think you're profiting but you may just be short sighted. The more people that find this brave new world to be legitimate, the higher its value will be.

Therefore, these scam referral linking posts will be disincentivized with downvotes from my account and others. As a Steem stakeholder I don't think Steemians should be rewarded for working against its goals. If you agree with this sentiment, I invite you to downvote referral promotions for probable scams as well.

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No, but thanks to referrals you can help scammers scam more while making a cut from it.

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When your name has value, you can still get scammed. It's called ID theft. (Not that it applies, but shouldn't be forgotten.)

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you sound like a hater to me. i have been earning in bitconnect for 10 months now. they trade coins on the livecoin trading platform so what is your proof they are scam? you should never say any site is scam unless you can back it up. everyone in the site is making profit. i have never promoted it in the 10 months i have been in it and all i put in was 100.00 and have earned over a thousand dollars already.

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True , God bless the Poor.

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Even broke people get robbed from time to time.

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Yes, please. Since I have been promoting VIVA to my closest friends and family, I too would like to know:
What do you think of Viva?

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I tried to buy the first batch of VIVA Crowns without knowing too much about it beyond the general outline.

I think the first biggest challenge it faces is getting the ideas implemented. There are big challenges after that still. As far as a potential scam goes, I don't believe williambanks and friends are looking to scam people. My word shouldn't be taken as gospel. Please look into any potential investment with a critical view.

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I 'm not sure about it myself, but I'm watching it, just not participating in the ico.

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Lets see independent open source clients and then maybe there would be a reason. Looks like it will turn into a pump and dump. The ICO structure seems questionable.

The hardest part of a scam is that people want to believe that it will work for them. I don't believe downvotes alone will resolve the issue since there is an inherent desire for people to want to believe the scam. Instead of downvoting, post a link to this exact post to educate and inoculate people from the scam.

For Bitconnect, people need to understand where the money is allegedly coming from. The website alleges they are running a volatility trading bot using the funds. What people need to be skeptical about is the existence of this bot and the performance advantage that it has against all other bots on the bitcoin markets. A volatility trading bot is not a new idea and bitconnect is doing something extraordinary with their trading algorithm, they should be able to convince big time traders and investors that their algorithm is something special and very quickly get millions in funding from legitimate investors.

The fact that they are soliciting funds from amateurs and provide near zero explanation for their trading methodology or edge and most of their website is about marketing is highly highly suspicious.

The worrying thing is that these types of scams are proliferating. I seem to get messages "inviting" me nearly every day to join something like this.

These BitConnect people have tried to recruit me for their scam previously and it looked fishy to me right away.

It sad that people get caught up in this and either don't realise that they are helping to perpetrate the scam or are being dishonest with themselves.

Just because some early investors get paid does not make it legit - that is exactly what happens in Ponzis and pyramid schemes and what is used to attract later investors.

If nobody got any money then the scam wouldn't work!

Integrity is more important than profits - if all you care about is money, then you would be better off becoming an investment banker (or an owned politician).

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Right on "Integrity is more important than profits - if all you care about is money, then you would be better off becoming an investment banker (or an owned politician)." - Sad but true.

One man's scam coin is another's top crypto, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Always two viewpoints.

Thank you for the mention!
A user was advertising it right in the comments of my article! Shameless!

This looked shady to me as well
good post

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We need a new slogan that says "Open-source or Scam!"

Yes I know we recently went fully open-source :p
Would be a good general rule when investing in crypto-currencies though since most scams aren't.

Agreed/followed/upvote/shared/resteemed/liked/loved/some other verbs I can't come up with. 😂

"All that glistens is not gold; Often have you heard that told: Many a man his life hath sold But my outside to behold: Gilded tombs do worms enfold." (William Shakespeare)

Edit: He did refund me.


"Promoting a Scam Makes You a Scammer"
Hi @pfunk. You vote on @charlieshrems witness.
Please look at this and reconsider your vote.
https://steemit.com/steemitringscam/@berniesanders/did-you-order-a-steemit-ring-from-charlieshrem-and-never-receive-it

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I don't know enough about the situation. It seems from Charlie's comments there that he made mistakes but didn't have malicious intent.

I've unvoted his witness pending reimbursements for the rings to you, ericvancewalton, and possibly cass.

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He refunded me.

I started flagging bitconnect posts days ago. That and Genesis mining referrals are becoming a disease spreading across steemit.

I'll also flag posts that are just pics or vids with a stack of referral links at the end no matter what they are for. You want to use your referral then fine write something original about the site. No copy/paste from the site, no copy/paste from bitcointalk. No pic of some chart or graph. Your own words about your experience. And no I made x amount since y isn't good enough.

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While how you use your flags is completely your decision I think what you've described is over flagging. The danger of over flagging is that you are far more likely to trigger a flag war and incur flag bots.

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Interested in your opinion actually... could you check this out and see if I followed the recommendations you mention... please note I posted the piece last night and only now came across your comment.
I welcome criticism and praise equally as I'm new to this blogging thing. :)
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@tansleyfolk/after-the-faucet

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Actually looked at that one last night. Looked good to me.

This is ridiculous and shows how immature some steem power holders are.

As a community we should be working to help each other prosper. Protecting one another from scams should be a big part of that. Good on you to call this out pfunk.

Disheartening is that high reputation holders promoted bitconnect. When they promote the people think.

"these is being promoted by reputed member of steemit, so it must be true ".

Another thing I would like to add is, those who proved that bitconnect is scam - like @thegrinder 's post, their posts never made to the trending tab, if that would' ve happened - more people could have read about it and won't fall for scam.

Unfortunately, because of steemit 's flawed algorithm, mostly high reputation holders gets to the trending tab and the gems gets buried.

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...vown flote vag ceady on spase if ram...

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You are just too clever @virtualgrowth :)

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ʇɥɐuʞ ʎon
noʎ ʞuɐɥʇ

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Next you'll be speaking backwards - stel kcor :]

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I evah nettog tahc smoor gnipyt sdrawkcab erofeb!

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!ylkciuq yrev skaep niwt fo egdol kcalb eht otni gninrut si sihT

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This is venturing into Lynchian surrealism. LIKE :))

It sketched me out from the beginning!

Awesome post. I fully agree with you.

I hate scamming. I've been one of the dumb.

Thank for letting us know.

Who will be in charge of reviewing all posts referencing other projects to determine if they are a scam or not?
Do we not remember being called a scam? Based on the same criteria.
Everyone should do what they think is right, however, I tend to believe in the concept of buyer beware.

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Well said, I agree

( applauds @pfunk @fraserb @thegrinder )

Kudos to you 3 for your BRAVERY and calling out this SCAM as well as making it the #1 TOP Trending Post on steemit.com

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Thank you for the appreciation!

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It's good to see Fresh blood who don't mind getting their hands dirty.

Most Welcoming...

Keep STEEM N ON,

Frank

I invite you to downvote referral promotions for probable scams as well.

This is really needed!
keep up the good work :)

Nailed it - thank you. This is the kind of nonsense that makes headlines about BitCoin instead of all the great projects related to it.

Thanks for the warning about this scam. We should help each other avoid these organized deceptions.

I'm using Bonus bitcoin and that scam thing comes up every time when I claim the faucet. It has been there for about a week now.

Thats true

Good post! Thank you for sharing. I do not buy this trick - "P2P crediting"! Because you informed me!

I almost agree and I'm sure many do so; this issue still has a question mark and could lead to a censorship reputation for Steemit. Let's say I agree 100% with you than what about politics, that scam is in no way just probable.

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"could lead to a censorship reputation for Steemit", this already true

I agree most of the videos I've seen on youtube about this has concluded its most likely a scam one guy actually researched the people that registered it and found out all kinds of shady things....

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found here BIT-CONNECT - MY BAD IT IS A SCAM! ( Don't worryI got my peps)

If you want real steady money get a job. Doubling 3BTC in 16h is not possible. If its too good to be true its not true.

Scam or not it I do not care, but thanks a lot for the information

You have perfectly right that's why i am not promoting some websites i am not 80% sure to be legit :)

I was once a victim scamer

lovely post... seriously i love your post... i respect you a lot and enjoy reading your post. Thanks for sharing @pfunk

What do you think about Hashflare and Genesis Mining ? I shared a few times my positive experience on Genesis Mining referring my affiliate code.

More than once I received negative return from users who told me it was a scam. Once I even get flagged. I politely asked why but I never received any answers.

Fortunately, I sometimes get positive reactions. I'd like to know if it's a scam or not. I invested in a few contracts and my experience has always been positive until now.

I'd certainly not be assimilated to a scammer. I am far from it.
In fact, I hate scams ... a lot ! Always doing my best to avoid them (and that's why I ask your opinion).

Thank you very much for your input.

Have a nice day,
Greetings from Belgium

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I don't know much about Hashflare, but Genesis Mining is a more nuanced thing. From what I read (independent sources), they actually do have miners running, so they are not dishonest about what they're doing.

Because of the recent rise in Bitcoin and other smart money token values recently, I think people must have actually made some money from it. But overall, I do think buying into Genesis or any other cloud mining service is a losing proposition. Most usually turn out to be ponzis, and even for those that actually are mining, they rely on the inability to project the future to extract money from people who have higher hopes of turning a profit.

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Thank you very much for your answer and insight. Take care.

@craig-grant sent me to this post. I am still very new to Steemit and cryptocurrency for that matter. I am still researching, finding out what goes where and just how bloody deep the rabbit-hole goes.

Thank you for the clarification on Bitconnect!

and here's the problem i have with this. I have been hearing about how bitconnect is a scam for sometime now but no one seems to have anything definitive to back this up. They all say the same thing, "they have a referral program so it must be scam!" Really?!?! you gotta do better than that. it's been months since i first heard this scam talk and i have stayed away from bitconnect as a result yet it's still there and people i know are still profiting from it and not just from referrals but from actually investing their own money. NOWHERE in this entire article is there anything to prove or even really suggest it is a scam other then YOU saying it is a scam so please???? where is the proof? i need to see it or am going to start investing with bitconnect. and another thing our entire global economy is a ponzi scheme thanks to fractional reserve banking so if you're gonna call out scams how about that one, you know the one that actually affects everyone. i am going to read these other articles you linked and see if i can find a shred of proof, otherwise YOU ALL NEED TO STOP CRYING WOLF and find someone else to pick on. To me Bitconnect just looks like another investment fund. You deposit money into an account, they have Trading Bots handling the account and you get a percentage of whatever they make from Trading and you get more added to your investment if you get anyone else to sign up not to mention you can withdraw profits almost immediately so, where's the scam exactly?! p.s. i just followed you and voted for you as a witness so obviously i have some respect but this bitconnect scam talk has been really bugging me for a while, maybe ill be owed a "told you so" down the road but we'll just have to wait and see

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Thank you for the comment. I believe it's easy to spot a ponzi scam when the returns are unsustainable, and even worse, offered as a guarantee. Furthermore offering 7% of referral investments to the referrer is ridiculously high if it were something legitimate. It seems to be a more successful scheme so far but it will inevitably blow up. The more successful ponzi scams can last quite a while. Just look at Madoff.

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And that is precisely where I believe you and many others are going wrong. I started daytrading several months ago. Quit my shitty min wage job to do it full time so I do nothing but stare at crypto charts and news all day everyday. I am by no means a Pro but i'm very experienced when it comes to observation of humankind on this planet in general. People seem to be in the habit of judging businesses like Bitconnect by old stockmarket standards. There is nothing standard about the crypto space and while i'm sure at some point they will stop offering 7% (eventually it will get lowered but it will still be great compared to typical investment fund offers. saying "forever" is just a marketing tool, don't get hung up on it) i don't think they will disappear with everyone's money, which in my eyes is the only thing that would make it a scam. making 7% daily trading stocks is totally doable. I barely know what im doing and i can easily clear 10% a day often more, of course i lose it again but i always end up with around double my investment at the end of each month and again I don't really know what i'm doing and i sure as hell don't have any Bots trading for me. Shoot I could easily see pro's making double every day in this space. until the market volatility settles down (which is going to be a while since Crypto is still in it's infancy as far as public awareness goes) 7% isn't just doable, it's conservatively doable. they're doing it and have been for at least 7 months now. at what point does it stop being a scam and become legitimate. 7 months of conducting business as promised in the crypto world sounds pretty legit to me

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Give it time, it's obvious now, but give it time if you want to see where it ends up. They're not making these returns on some magical trading bot.

While I agree that Bitconnect looks scammy, and I applaud your desire to call them out, I believe in Freedom. Along with Freedom comes risk and the expectation that adults can educate and evaluate for themselves the risk/reward of a situation.
Freedom allows for each person to determine what actions to take, even when there is risk. I do not support a group of people deciding what can and can't be writen about on SteemIt.
I fully acknowledge the motives are coming from a good place.
Caveat emptor

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Nowhere do I dictate what can be included in a Steem post. I only say that I will do what I can to disincentivize it. I don't want to see Steem reward promotion of scams when the target userbase of Steem are the people who are more likely to fall for them, for lack of experience.

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Understood. I respect your point of view and was stating mine.

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This is great news to hear there are steemians looking out for the community. Especially the newbies to steemit and learning about cyrptocurrency. I know I need a lot of help in that area. Thanks!

I will support this initiative!

yes , please. and I have already a name who is promoting it!

I think you need to differentiate between victims and supporters.

I was so incensed with a Steve McKay scam, namely Bitcoin code, that I spent hours trying to find a means to communicate with Google at it's source. Google has a good scam watch, and the sites one might find where various reviews have looked deeply into, and show up how some scams are just miners. Google says definitely, that Bitcoin Code is a scam, but Bitcoin Code still pushes through it's ads to my phone, regardless of the blocks and security I've tried. The worst are Chrome, which interrupts whatever I'm doing, and one has to open to first page to delete. Whoever owns Google now is double-faced with no integrity, advising what are scams and taking there money to promote them also. Google needs to look at policing it's content via it's community, as some sort of etiquette balance. Once a nation's Fair Trading has posted a scam, then such as Google, that continue to profit from their posts, need to be humiliated or otherwise brought to book for partaking deceit upon their majority users. ♏