This is it boys and girls
Can you feel it?
The clashes of those being against policing/regulating the reward pool with downvotes, those attempting to still continue gaming it, the curve making it harder and harder to hide away those thefts from the pool, them attempting to do anything in their power to continue their farming which in turn is costing them more ROI which they could've gotten trough curation instead. Them losing their face, reputation and digging themselves an even bigger grave they gonna have a hard time to crawl out of. Oh the beauty of code and rules coming together nicely, the cries of people bringing forth only the negative side effects of them and the lengths they can be taken to but forgetting to mention the beauty of it.
We're still early on and it's not hard to see the effects of it. There's a lot of accusations flying around from the defenders attempting to game the system and it's funny to see the lengths they'll go to just to get back on the cash cow even though they've had years to milk it and many have done so successfully. Greed is funny though as it never fulfills you, you'll always see them back wanting another one of those easy tastes of rewards. Isn't it like theft if you think about it? The reward pool is here for all of us to be shared, so those getting a bigger piece of it for way less effort than you or your neighbors because of some loopholes or old connections or just the nagging of asking for upvotes outside of Steem, does that just make you a jealous neighbor? That's what they'd like to call you to their nonexistent followers. :)
I do wonder if someone at some point in the future, if Steem gets big enough is going to go through some important changes and stages of it and just research the philosophy and psychology of behavior of people and accounts. It brings an even more interesting side to it considering many have that "protection" of anonymity on Steem similar to how random Youtube accounts say things to people they don't like they would never say to someone they meet face to face. Here it's kind of that squared times 9 when there's financial incentives allowed.
Through all of this I try to not take it personally, could've been anyone else and there are many others in my position who are trying to filter the rewards by content/effort and are aware of what may or may not go down behind the scenes. It's a bit sad there's not as much cooperation with this from other language communities as they don't seem to understand the beauty of the downvotes and how they keep users improving their content if they want to continue earning that amount of Steem or at least put some more effort into sharing, networking and you know, helping the Steem ecosystem with it than just showing up, shitting two posts per day and spending the time that should've gone to generating timeconsuming content that holds people onto the site reading onto getting it as much more rewards as possible. If there was a effort/rewards post average award from steemitboard I'm sure we all know who some would be in the top 10 of, and it's unfortunate that so many up there would be from the korean community lately. Maybe they just need better curators or more users.
Anyway, even though a lot of retaliation, blame, hate is so focused on a certain amount of accounts I am certain that over time, over stake distribution, over the intial abusers losing out ROI over time because they just don't want to play the game everyone else is playing according to the new rules that should make this platform stick out from everything else and bring out its genius, I am certain that those who do good and continue to do so will overshadow the bad and only bring to light even more the ways those "haters" behave. It's going to be a fun ride and I'm having a blast so far watching all the reactions. :D
PS! Steemit should place ads on steemd.com as well. ;P
I use my downvotes every day, don't want to let them go to waste and the responses are usually downvotes in return
Earn your rep or get rekt is my view of things on the chain
Thank you being responsible and using your downvotes.
Honestly, I've had so much fun staying out of the politics and just focusing on my content! I've definitely seen a more consistent reward for my efforts as everything has changed and people have evolved.
I still see a lot of content that makes me think, "jeez, that's not how I'd distribute the reward pool", but I've had fun lurking while remaining an active content producer.
I agree with you
I will do the same from now on.
Good point
All the real facts were said in comments for months over and over , not worthy repeating it.
I will just focus on good quality posts and to invite many new members onboarding steemit.
Again, good point .thank you
!COFFEEA $trdo
For you
Ikr
I had an exchange with a victim of downvoting today, me-tarzan isn't so sure why it is happening. 😥
I think it would be due to this:
By the looks, those other two accounts are alts - so it is more like 100% Self-voting.
cut and past content talking about DVs:
https://steemit.com/bitcointradingresearch/@me-tarzan/to-buildawhale
https://steemit.com/steemit/@razorwave8/to-adm-and-theycallmedan
Then:
That is a lot on content that only gets a comment from themselves.
Sure, they have the potential to allocate the pool as they choose, and all stakeholders have the potential to reallocate. I do not know if it is a friend of yours or what, but considering the @me-tarzan account has ben on the platform since mid-2016 and has taken around 200,000 Steem in rewards, I would suspect they know exactly what they are doing and exactly why they are getting downvoted.
I thought that selfvoting had to do with it. I just didn't know 'vote farm' was the technical term.
I looked at a few of the posts, most aren't even particularly interesting.
What was interesting is that he claims he didn't know why it was happening. I am also suspicious of that.
I have no idea who this person is. I was just thinking it's the best example I've come across recently as to why there is a 7day reward pending period (not sure of the technical term for this). 200k SP is a lot. Very few people have earned that much Steem and continue to deserve earning that much asides from popular community leaders, developers, whale investors and exceptional authors. However, the 10X posts a day is a little much for anyone.
He seems like someone who stopped caring about what is going on with the general changes to Steem a long time ago and just tended to his 10x post per day farm.
Ahh makes, sense big downvotes can hurt that and people who put 90% of their VP into self votes aren't likely to have too many supporters.
Yeah, i do think he's not up to date at all. Gave him a resteem anyway :)
It's funny how little rewards he generates without selfvoting with his alts on that post, guess engaging and growing a somewhat diverse community of givers and receivers of votes is what being social is about? Who could've guessed.
Yeah. Why would people bother when he's clearly not involved in the community at all. Mind you, Tarzan is a bit of a solo kinda guy :)
too bad Tarzan didn't live in the jungle with bots.
telling indeed. Looks like it is his most engaging post in a very long time also :D
Not sure about that by the resteem. seems to talk about the last hardfork and decline and since he is supposedly an investor - know your investment
Ignorance is not a defense, especially when ther is plenty of information sources out there. The only way he could have missed what s going on is if he is post and runnning 10x a day :D
Yeah, was giving benefit of the doubt but he seems to know enough...
Yup :)
Glad to hear that the new system is working ! It’s becoming quite clear that a lot of those who were against the latest hard fork knew that their days of milking the reward pool was coming to an end.
I think there is a great beauty in this new structure, where the strength of the eco system really comes to the surface. Just like a group of dolphins protecting a swimmer against a shark, we now have the ability to create strength in numbers and fight even the bigger whales 🐳.
You guys are doing a great job at OCD, and even though I don’t have a lot of steempower I would be glad to help when needed !
A person can't steal from the pool, they can only allocate their share.
Engagement and friendly users is where it is at, if you want try to pretend you are in a battle of good and evil that is cute, but also ridiculous.
!dramatoken
Isn't voting a bit more complex than simply allocating a share that you own?
That's up to each stakeholder. I personally manually vote. However, the whole blockchain is designed around DPOS, which means every stakeholder gets to allocate their share to whatever they think benefits their goals.
Whether that is content, users, the SPS, converting potatoes or burning or vote trading. Where there is enough consensus the other other stakeholders can respond with downvotes or upvotes to change that allocation. People can make it romantic and create stories around it... but at the end of the day that is how it works!
A share would indicate that you are awarding a discrete portion of the pool that you own. A direct correlation if you will. In your first paragraph, you imply a direct correlation, and in your second, you imply the game theory of consensus voting to allocate rewards.
We all have the right to allocate exactly the share of the pool we own... What I mean is this... it is perfectly fair in that those who hold stake have exactly as much power as the percentage of stake they own.
Can we do another chart like this that talks about the contribution of actual content a user has submitted on the chain, but in terms of wordcount, and a general "grade" level of that work count?
Words per post, words per comment, etc. :D
I think it would be fun... but I don't have the analytical skill (or will) - but it would be a great way to... troll with facts.
lol, hmm, what would that say? Using more words does not ensure something is a better or even harder... Several users come to mind who take 1000 words to say what could be said in a much clearer matter. :) In fact in most writing classes the goal is to say something in a clear concise way rather than rambling along.
:) I think I know what you are getting at, but I don't find that to be useful criteria. I'm a huge fan of people making their point with some data, or evidence. :)
I'm glad you can understand, because it is difficult to articulate what I mean sometimes!
The key point is that it is not unilateral control as your chart would suggest.
With downvoting (also the curve, but that is a lesser factor usually) there is a consensus calculation that is non-linear and non-unilateral.
Okay? There's plenty of time to be friendly with those that deserve it and a lot more rewards to be given out to those and even more if you use your downvotes on the ones that aren't playing by the rules of the majority.
I can agree on that, and in many cases those situations have been handled.
Yes by a few people, what about those not daring to use their downvotes at all and just keeping their heads down because they know that'll get them constant downvoters back for life. Would you maybe consider those who do it anyway to be in some part of a battle of good vs evil or are they also just pretending?
I don't even think it is close to good and evil. I think often it is a difference of opinion and a lack of clear communication.
:) Many of us used our downvotes, with grace and some feedback long before they were free. I quit using mine because some people got a bit gung ho. I hated seeing investors and some decent users who actually get quite a bit of engagement getting called names and downvoted. But It's just a phase. None of it is that big of a deal or requires terms like theft, etc.
Yeah, I'm glad a few real problems were handled and thank you for the role you played in that...
'Steal' is inflammatory and I would agree with that.
People can allocate 'their' share in a manner which benefits the individual with little to no benefits to Steem. Call it what you like, but it isn't good for Steem.
We really have no evidence of what is good or bad for Steem. There is a direct relationship to price and activity. Which came first the chicken or the egg.
I've seen no evidence on either side, just a lot of opinions... including my own.
If everyone just votes for their own self-enrichment, then Steem's rewarding function is pointless. People are just paying themselves with their own money.
If some people vote for self-enrichment then they are doing so at the expense of anyone who is gullible enough not to.
I happen to think that a major function of Steem being completely pointless or a way to gain personally at the expense of other stakeholders is bad for Steem.
Sure, this isn't entirely objective but it's somewhat close. The logic is solid.
The cases of those voting strictly for their own enrichment are few.
Other than that I agree.
My view is quite different. I see an enormous amount of it still going on every day (as a percentage of the reward pool at least, maybe not relative to raw vote count or post count). The situation is modestly improved since HF21, but not to the point of it being 'few'.
We can certainly respectfully disagree on this perhaps.
First you ridicule the notion of 'good or bad' for steem, then when cornered with the simple logic that supports the notion of something being good or bad for the community you try to recant and claim that the negative that you at first denied is now but marginal. I've heard the same bullshit from you from day one, always incapable or unwilling of grasping the simple logic and undeniable conclusion of "if everyone acted like a self voter" and even though I'm not sure you recognize that you are a serial apologist for abuse of Stake or you truly think that such Abuse is Impossible by some ownership or other such 'principle' yet I imagine it ought to be very confusing to make ends meet regardless of the narrative you hold since either there is such evidence or there isn't, no matter the quantity.
#no-evidence
#nothingtosee
We can have a good idea of what is good for Steem and what isn't, some of it is just common sense.
An account only votetrading and maximizing rewards while that's it's only focus which is now a reason 3 years later he gets 0 engagement on his low effort posts to even justify the rewards with that is surely not going to be good for Steem compared to someone with the opposite attributes.
Yeah, in that case I would agree. 3 years of posting and not having any engagement is something I would consider worthy of downvoting.
@me-tarzan
Just to be clear, the steal part was mainly aimed at users such as flysky who've attempted and for a long time (thanks to bid bots) managed to take a lot of rewards from the pool for whatever it was that steemcleaners is onto him along with his friend dobartim who've been running schemes on discord to trick newcomers and kick those asking too many questions once they got onto them. Taking a quick look at his "poetry" should tell you what kind of content they've vote-traded/bid botted up for ages to get their rep and are stubborn to keep the facade going for ulterior motives than the rewards from what it looks like as that's pretty clear by now they would make more by just curating than attempting to post garbage and get into downvote wars vs the whole community. The main reason I got involved and heard about them was because even when minnows were downvoting their garbage/plagiarism they'd go after them with pitchforks and there were some other users behaving the same after the hardfork: "downvote me and get hit back twice harder" was not something I thought to be acceptable when giving the EIP a try. Luckily most seemed to have understood their actions to have been "bad" and the consequences they faced not just by big accounts downvoting them for these main reasons but also stepping up and countering the malicious retaliatory downvotes but also on their rep and future on the chain. Now there's still a few left who are stubborn. I take it once the price of Steem starts increasing and the curation they're losing due to even using their upvote mana to downvote starts having real value they may backtrack.
The thing is though and what I was pointing out here in the thread is that this is pretty dirty work for those getting in the middle of it and attempting to put a stop to it if you aren't completely passive like someone like @trafalgar or you who just comments and doesn't care about them being downvoted or how it affects those replying to you. Even though these abusers may realize their fault along the way they'll still hold grudges over those that put an end to their ROI fest and might continue to downvote them forever or try hurt them in other ways such as going after all comments on those users posts (like it's happening to me and a few others now) as they have nothing left to lose. It's kind of a dead end now where the only option for them is to either change their ways and hope people notice it before they just automate counter all of their downvotes and dealing with it that way while they rot away in the "deep web" of Steem once communities and SMT's take over or they will power down onto new accounts and start fresh. The latter could be encouraged by bringing their reputations down to 0.
Huh? You're trying a bit too hard with the drama shit lately.
If a person is using mostly dead stake to continue rewarding themselves for low effort content and doesn't get downvoted because of fear of retaliation, or votetrading it's pretty much theft to others who are losing out rewards for not doing the same low effort garbage and just trying to take out as much rewards as possible from the pool the way they are. What is difficult to understand there?
Maybe present your opinions in other ways than facts.
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I use most of my stake to support the Venezuelan community and barely post these days due to being busy with work and I'm pretty happy with the returns from curation alone lol!
Those that argue that they self-vote because its their stake are just blind, they'll probably earn more if they played along the rules.
Some seem to want the undeserved fame on top and pretending to be great authors, not surprised they call themselves Dr. Great Success like they are a villian from a 70s movie.
@acidyo
You downvote post of this nembers and many self vote after you nullify their post. If you tell information you should always tell real fact not your bias point of view,
lol, thanks for humoring me today, bye
As well
Lol
Such drama, you've earned a DRAMA!
To view or trade
DRAMAgo to steem-engine.com.I took several downvotes from profiles that don't have an image and have a low reputation.
Well said, we the small people here wish for the best.