The argumentative quirk to criticism

in #philosophy6 years ago

Humans have a funny quirk I find.

  • Compliment them and they say, Thanks!
  • Ask for advice or clarification and they provide, some generalized points.
  • Criticize them and; They will spend the time to write walls of text to clear their good names.

I personally am argumentative by nature or, perhaps necessity considering I am inquisitive and value discussion. It is not that I love being criticized but, I even value a conversation in the negative, over a meaningless compliment.

Discussions hold value transformational value as two or more people can engage and share ideas and if both open, a lot of ground can be covered and clarifications be made. It is not that after the discussion both parties agree on anything but, there need not be animosity and anger. Working out the differences is just as important as negotiating terms, perhaps more so in some cases.

A couple weeks ago @berniesanders called out some witnesses and questioned their roles quite publicly. In one post, he targeted @roelandp very directly. The approach can be frowned upon and might be seen as negative or toxic by many people. Personally, I found out more about some of the witnesses here in a couple of posts than I have learned in all my time trying to find out about them. Being called out seemed to bring out some of the best in some of them and, I assume that was the point.

For @roelandp, after defending his position, he found out that his delegation to a bidbot wasn't being used the way he thought and on the back of that, finished off a side project which he presented the other day called SolicitingPower. Have a look.

Although quite a rough process, I think that for some of the witnesses at least, having a bucket of cold water thrown over them woke them up and perhaps forced them into a review of their actions. Those who presented their positions, their projects and their coming developments added a lot of value to the blockchain and the community. In my opinion, it is healthy.

Witnesses are elected positions and therefore need to be be held responsible for their behaviors more stringently than a normal user. They should have to defend themselves in the public eye, especially if the public no longer know what they do and what value they provide. Because of Bernie's public persona, his posts hold a lot of weight. You can go and have a read of the 400+ comments here.

However, I do think that the public calling out shouldn't really be necessary if the witnesses are doing their job and keeping the community who elect them, informed. Even the ones who aren't community orientated should be providing the information relevant to the community without being asked for it. This is especially true for the contentious issues that might be on the platform. The witnesses should at least know what they are and give a public stance or defend positions.

However, this quirk is true for pretty much everyone. Last night I posted a discussion question about advertising rival platforms on Steemit. You can find it here.

Although I didn't name anyone directly, several people I would consider public figures dropped by with their views. They were @Uwelang, @Surfermarly and @Clayboyn. As far as my memory serves, none of them have ever commented on my content before. It is a big platform after all, right? I am very grateful for them coming by and thank them profusely for adding to the discourse.

I had and still have many questions but, I am not going to go and hijack their comment sections for my own agenda as I find that quite rude. But, if I hadn't challenged the general behavior and been quite critical, would they have left a comment? Would they have even come across it? Would they have joined into a discussion that many of my own followers consider important since they are trying hard to make this place work with their limited influence? Seeing high visibility accounts advertise rivals doesn't seem to inspire them. Perhaps advertising rivals puts a nail in the coffin?

But, here is the thing. They did comment and clarify their positions which at least for me and some of my followers, takes some of the shill out of their advertising as they are essentially forced to evaluate their own positions in order to defend them. Perhaps there is a lot of value on both sides when such things happen as both get new information and they can reinforce their own or perhaps, weaken their views on some things.

As I have said many times and reiterated many, many more, discussion is necessary for a community to grow healthily and when that discussion hasn't arrived, it should be forced. This is actually a large part of the current challenges we face now, communication.

Without good communication that travels throughout the community, the wrong things get attention and the right get swept under the rug as they are often difficult to deal with. In an emerging environment being built in an emerging industry, communication is vital. Vital means essential but also, life. This means that without it, there is death.

If you notice, community and communication are born from the same stem; share, together. The problems facing this community lay in the togetherness of it. No, not everyone has to agree but, the discussions need to happen so that when actions are taken, they are more likely to include the needs of more groups within. If the questions aren't raised and discussions don't happen, we get what we have now, imbalance.

As said, it is in my nature to be argumentative and it is in my interest area to question behavior. It is also my profession to facilitate and improve communication. I am not saying that every post of mine is going to be a challenge but, I am unlikely to stop asking questions and finding ways to get them answered. When that comes to questions about the community, it takes a community to answer.

Anyway, thanks to all the comments and perspectives and I think I am missing replying to some lately as I am struggling to keep up. Hopefully you will also read and talk amongst yourselves and add to the public discourse on all of the issues you find of interest or importance. With a little communication, this place becomes so much more relevant but, it does take work as well as that step back. Not all the value is in the payout figure, perhaps, not even much.

Taraz
[ a Steemit original ]

Also, check out the accounts I have tagged to see if they produce something you might be interested in and throw them a follow.

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Thanks for this post - I appreciate the discussion we had, criticism is way better as brown nosing no matter if we have the same opinion - alternative views are also important. That is part of my favourite action - doing my due diligence.

It makes life much more interesting and valuable to discuss than to negotiate. I don't win many friends by doing this but the friends I do have are good friends I can rely on :)

Negotiating can be fun too especially on a turkish Bazar - watching my wife doing this makes me jealous. Honestly, you are right - no major value to see hundreds shouting to whatever "yeah, well done, hurrah, this is fantastic......" just to follow certain crowds - in the end all these people mainly are interested in financial rewards no matter what they officially claim.....

I'm of the unpopular opinion that Bernie is a net positive, meaning that he can be toxic, he can lack the touch to deal with issues but more often than not he does help Steem in his own way.

Its as you said, those few posts revealed so much more than anything else that had been posted on Steem and it simply should not be the case. I have to admit that I'm not convinced of the whole "ohh i thought minnowbooster helpied minnows" thing... Why, because as a delegator you get paid to delegate, and we would be expected to believe he had no idea SBD's were being sent to his wallet for his delegation. Now, im not saying he is a bad guy or anything of the sort, I just thought he should have owned it, thats all.

I am unsure how unpopular it is but, I know that people are always fearful of taking sides. I don't see this as a 'taking sides' thing though as it can also be taken on a case by case basis.

Its as you said, those few posts revealed so much more than anything else that had been posted on Steem and it simply should not be the case.

I learned a lot about a lot of witnesses in those interactions. Not all positive but still, much of it was. Perhaps if people actually saw more platform care from the witnesses, it would go a long way to engaging users again.

Now, im not saying he is a bad guy or anything of the sort, I just thought he should have owned it, thats all.

To benefit blindly is a large part of the bidbot problem in general. The lack of proactivity needed leads to complacency and disengagement. I think all witnesses should spend a little bit of time manually curating a few times a week.

I think all witnesses should spend a little bit of time manually curating a few times a week.

I have one of those posts drafts that I can't seem to finish, largely because I want to be fair and I keep on changing my mind.

But It has some ideas on how in my opinion of course a good witness should operate. if he/she wants to be a force of good for Steem.

  • All top 20 witnesses should run a full Node if they have been on the position 2 months in a row
  • All top 50 Witnesses should have community oriented projects
  • All top 20 Witnesses should have 30%+ of their Native SP delegated out to Community Projects
  • All witnesses should have monthly updates
  • All witnesses should be reacheable by Discord or Steem Chat
  • All witnesses should do manual curation at least once a week <--- this is why I remembered my draft

I'm aware some do all these, but it should be an "unofficial rules list"... really, at least in my mind they should.

They do delegate to community projects... aren't bidbots for the community? :P

I do think there should be more community interaction though. They are elected although technically, they mostly elect themselves it seems.

Even though I do not agree with everything @berniesanders does he does create waves and those are indeed sometimes needed to rock the boat.

Otherwise this whole steem ocean just turns into a steeming pile of mud. The platform is being taken advantage of and complacency is all around. The witnesses are indeed the ones that should be most aware of what is going on since they are our elected officials

Yeah, it isn't always positive but to say it is all useless is not true. The city needs all types and a lot more transparency of the elected positions.

Personally, I found out more about some of the witnesses here in a couple of posts that I have learned in all my time trying to find out about them. Being called out seemed to bring out some of the best in some of them and, I assume that was the point.

That's another problem worth addressing - discoverability.

Is there a blog/account here on steemit that serves as a central hub? A place where a newbie can get the lay of the land?

I'm here writing this because someone I follow has resteemed that post. Basically, by accident.

To paraphrase you, I've learned more about steemit and who's who by getting into an argument with you than I did by browsing trending/hot/new pages (which I don't do for a month or so now).

Anyhow, if you are big enough then calling people out (even indirectly) works. You should do more of it :-)

That's another problem worth addressing - discoverability.

This is a big, huge, massive problem. I am hoping communities will somewhat improve it.

Is there a blog/account here on steemit that serves as a central hub? A place where a newbie can get the lay of the land?

Not that I know of other than the FAQ which I think needs review. There should be a very short intro splash that covers a lot briefly.

To paraphrase you, I've learned more about steemit and who's who by getting into an argument with you than I did by browsing trending/hot/new pages (which I don't do for a month or so now).

I learn so much this way. Should it always take confrontation? I don't think so but, don't shy away from arguments for as long as people can be charitable and control emotion to some degree, there is too much value to let them slide.

I used to be proud to think myself as an argumentative person because i studied Philosophy as my pre-law course so arguing a point across and winning a debate was a much sought after skill.

However as I mellowed down the years I find myself wanting to discuss rather than argue as I see a better chance of understanding and getting my message across.

I have seen the Ono posts and I don't think they were too obstrusive and although there were some big names there I never found the message to be screw Steem and that we should all jumpship, In fact most of them were just presenting a new dapp and what they found to be resonating with them.

And I have been following it since I am also interested in it as well.

Asking a question is always the best way to stimulate a discussion hopefully the discussion can remain civil and not resort to name calling as I see a lot of heated discussions lately.

II didn't study much, I just like to argue ;)

I think I should unfollow a few people. Not just because of this but there is very little value in what they are offering imo.

There is no community without communication yes, but i have an issue, if every user has access to these witnesses and can generate a public discussion about ongoing issues that are meant to be actually solved by the people, witnesses would be forced to intervene or fold their arms which means the objective of power to the people gets compromised but if otherwise, then it seems the witnesses are the bad selfish eggs who dont care about the system. My question is, looking from the witnesses angle, at what level do they come in to intervene into issues facing the system? since we claim self governance. I will hate to be a witness and be slandered because the people expect me to take care of their own business. I feel everyone at their corners have the responsibility to foster communication and discussions in the drive to better develop and sustain themselves while here, independent solutions carved out of mutual teamwork and goal.

After my research about the ONO, i dont think it will be a competiton to steemit because ONO is a social media site while steemit is blogging site, the whitepaper says so. Understanding this will help put people where they belong not because of just what is available, and people can be more committed and engaged in wherever they feel their success or whatever their goal will be.

My question is, looking from the witnesses angle, at what level do they come in to intervene into issues facing the system? since we claim self governance.

Witnesses aren't Steemit, they are individual community members. Some run businesses here, some run community initiatives, some run bidbots.

steemit is blogging site

Steemit is but, dtube, dlive, zappl and all the ones to come aren't blogging sites.

Aha...back to deep thoughts

Communication is key. If you have to ruffle some feathers at the same time then so be it. I also like to get responses out of people and will sometimes choose a losing argument because I find it more fun. How do you find out how to fix something if you don't ask the uncomfortable questions. No one likes criticism. It's easy to accept a compliment but a criticism is like an attack on you.

it is only an attack if you take it as such (even when it is meant as an attack). If you chill and detach from the ego, there is nothing to attack.

How the hell do you do that lol. Guys cant detach from their ego. It's just one of those things. Luckily I don't receive lots of criticism so when I rarely do will try and detach.

firstly, recognise it isn't real ;)

It can be difficult not to lash out when you're called out publicly, but if you're able to explain your position rather than resorting to personal attacks against the person, everyone can get more understanding, like you said. On the other hand, if instead of clarifying your position and helping the person understand, if you lash out and attack, you promote discord (not the chatting software). Rather than creating understanding and reconciliation, it promotes dissension. I'm glad the responses helped you get a better idea of the thought behind their actions. Thanks for the update. I appreciate your follow-through.

I think it is important to get the alternative views. I am not saying I agree with them but, it is good to get them and have different perspectives.

Nice pos,,,, upvoted

Constructive discussion without having to judge is a healthy discussion

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