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RE: Should Believers Turned Atheists Self-Censor What They Share?
Dwinblood makes a good point. Atheists seem like they have a need to force their opinions on everyone else, like Bible Thumpers (who have done more damage than good to Christianity). As far as religion goes, I believe that religion is the worst thing that ever happened to God. God created man...Man created religion. Religion is what turns people off to God. If someone chooses to be an atheist, it's fine with me...But I don't need it shoved down my throat. Believe what you want, or don't believe what you want...either way, it's your business and should stay that way.
Religion indeed does turn people away from theism or even "God" (however we define God), but there are quite a few of us out there that are not your typical Richard Dawson, Science vs Religion, atheist. Rather we reject theism on philosophical - what we, others might of course disagree, would consider "logical" - grounds.
We consider a "God" to be an outright impossibility and that we can know this for certain. Some call this "hard" or "absolute" atheism, to name some labels I've heard thrown around.
Yet I'm certainly not going to force that on you. In fact for the same reason, which is to say philosophy, I personally hold that in order to be good I must let you think for yourself. It's rather similar, in a sense, of how most Christians wouldn't want to force anyone into Christianity. It would be a self-defeating exercise of trying to enforce ethics by unethical means.
I think this is a great stance, but in the real world we aren't so isolated from each other. Our actions impact others. Our actions come from our beliefs (many of them, religious). So genital mutilation, abortion, the lack of access to safe abortion, contraceptive use, who we can have sex with, what substances we can put into our bodies, etc, etc... these decisions influence our societies and have legal ramifications. For the same reason the Bible Thumpers want to save the world, I think some intense atheists also want to save the world from what they see as irrational practices that provably lower the wellbeing of conscious individuals. They are worried about harm down now and they see others as worried about a perceived harm done in the afterlife. The conflict, for the most part, is between groups who think they are doing good but they don't agree on what "good" is. The problem, IMO, happens more when one group gets to used the monopoly on force within a geographic region (government) to ensure their views are forced on others.
Some consider just the act of sharing atheists ideas as "shoving it down someone's throat." At the same time, when someone asks for prayers for their sick child or a job interview coming up or whatever, I don't think they are shoving their religious beliefs down my throat, though I can imagine some might feel that way.
That implies to me this is a topic which shouldn't be discussed openly? If that's the case, what do we do about belief systems which harm people? Shouldn't we talk openly about the fundamental problems with islamism, as an example? At some point we have to defend the defenseless. When I see children being indoctrinated into a cult, as an example, that (to me) is an immoral action because their brains aren't fully developed to reason on their own and the ones they trust and who they turn to for reasoned logic to protect them might be leading them down a path which harms their wellbeing and the wellbeing of others in the long term.
Somewhere we have to draw the line. Your view makes sense to me. If there were no religions (but still plenty of theistic and non-theistic views), then we might at least be able to discussion individual actions on their own merits instead of having to "go against the church" or the power of a religion. To me, religion is another form of tribalism, our worst enemy.
It is your WALL in Facebook. You should put out who you are and what you believe. If people choose not to accept you as who you are then is it truly worth living a lie to retain their good favor?
It's a tough decision. You are reasonable enough guy that if you put WHO you are, and WHAT you currently believe out there, then if they respect you, they should respect that as well.
I like to tilt at mental windmills. I've come to the conclusion that most of the time I will lose. In very rare cases I may WITNESS a victory on my part. (changing someones mind then and there) In reality, the change in mind seems to take longer. I am usually not witness to it until after the fact, but I have seen some of my ideas months later being said by someone that disagreed with me before. So I don't view it as winning, losing. It is simply sharing. It is like seeds. They may lead to some new growth in a mind later on. It may even be very different from what I believe. This is good, because maybe they'll come back and talk to me and I'll learn things and have new seeds planted in my mind.
But, personally I say be true to yourself.
It is scary though as some people may not approve. The question I ask myself with that is if they do not approve of me, do I truly want to remain a facade to keep their approval.
I know this is not exactly what you are talking about. I am just shouting into the wind and perhaps some of what I say might mean something. :P I do that sometimes. Often all I hear is an echo.
Yeah, that's fun. Also fun to learn new things yourself and let other people's seeds grow, as you said.
Definitely the best plan, though I hope to improve it still by improving myself. Sometimes I'm a jerk. Sometimes I don't use wisdom when I speak, so my words hurt people I care about. Finding that balance leads to wisdom, I think. Be who you are and change who you are as needed to improve yourself.
We all are going to fail at times. We are all going to be a jerk at time. We simply need to be willing to apologize, and we also need to be willing to accept apologies from others.
Heheh... that was almost a Deist statement. God gave us Reason, Man created religion. :P
There's a great quote from Ramakrishna. I can't remember the whole thing but it goes something along the lines of...Religions are merely paths to God and it's important not to confuse the path with what's at the end. People tend to get caught up in the religion and forget what they're seeking. He goes on to say that religions are a cultural phenomena, that Buddhists should follow the teachings of the Buddha, Christians should follow Christ and Hindus the Aryan veddas. My spiritual beliefs are based on decades of research, not on faith (although I do have faith). I tried atheism (Humanism) and I found it to be lacking...it's pretty dishonest, just behaviors stolen from different spiritual teachings. Most of the atheists I've met were just people that hate God (how can you hate something that doesn't exist?). I do, however, hold to many Deist principles. God created everything (employing the laws of physics) and turned it over to man to manage...I think we made it to page 3 of the Bible before we started fucking up!
The reason why some Atheist are so pressing is that they can't believe the bloody idiots just can't see that they are idiots. Like believing someone could walk over a lake. Or shove away several dozen meters of water with a wink of a staff.
Of course believers often think the same.
But the difference is that there is group A) who base their view on a book that is 2000 years old and contradicts itself in nearly every possible way, and group B) who base their view on centuries of trials and verification.
On every other topic as religion everyone would say group B) is the one to believe in. So this group finds it hard that group A) is resistant until death.