"The Stratagem" My 'short' reply to @denmarkguy, @tarazkp & @theycallmedan recent posts.

in philosophy •  3 months ago  (edited)

¡The Stratagem!

"I have come for knowledge, not for any sort of discipline" «Pythagoras»

«««-$-»»»

"I will explain this to you. One example will be helpful. I was in a city. One man came; he was a Mohammedan, but I didn't know, I was not aware. And he was dressed so that he looked like a Hindu. He not only looked like a Hindu, but he talked as if he was of the Hindu type. He was not a Mohammedan type.

He asked me one question. He said, "Mohammedans and Christians say that there is only one life. Hindus, Buddhists and Jains say there are many lives — a long sequence of lives, so that unless one is liberated one goes on and on being reborn again and again. So what do you say? If Jesus was an enlightened man, he must have known. Or Mohammed, or Moses, they must have known too if they were enlightened men that there are many lives and not just one. And if you say that they are right, then what about Mahavir, Krishna, Buddha and Shankara? One thing is certain, that they cannot all be enlightened.

'If Christianity is right then Buddha is wrong, then Krishna is wrong, then Mahavir is wrong. And if Mahavir, Krishna and Buddha are right, then Mohammed, Jesus and Moses are wrong. So tell me. I am very much puzzled; I am in a mess, confused. And both cannot be right.'

How can both be right? Either there are many lives or there is one. How can both be right? 'He was a very intelligent man, and he had studied many things, so he said, "You cannot just escape and say that both are right. Both cannot be right. It is logically so — both cannot be right.'

But I said, 'This need not be; your approach is absolutely wrong. Both are devices. Neither is right, neither is wrong — both are devices.' It became impossible for him to understand what I meant by a device.

Mohammed, Jesus and Moses, they were talking to one type of mind, and Buddha, Mahavir, Krishna, they were talking to a very different type of mind. There are really two source religions — the Hindu and the Jewish. So all the religions born out of India, all the religions born out of Hinduism believe in rebirth, in many births; and all the religions born out of Jewish thinking — Mohammedanism, Christianity — they believe in one life. These are two devices.

Try to understand it. Because our minds are fixed, we take things as theories, not as devices. So many times people come to me and say, 'One day you said this is right, and another day you said that is right, and both cannot be right.' Of course both cannot be right, but no one is saying that both are right. I am not concerned at all with which is right and which is wrong. I am only concerned with which device works.

In India they use this device of many lives. Why? There are many points. All the religions born in the West, particularly out of Jewish thinking, were religions of poor people. Their prophets were uneducated. Jesus was not educated, Mohammed was not educated, Moses was not. They were all uneducated, unsophisticated, simple, and they were talking with masses who were not sophisticated at all, who were poor; they were not rich.

For a poor man, one life is more than enough, more than enough! He is starving, dying. If you say to him that there are so many lives, that he will go on being reborn and reborn, that he will move in a wheel of a thousand and one lives, the poor man will just feel frustrated about the whole thing. ¿What are you saying? a poor man will ask. 'One life is too much, so do not talk of a thousand and one lives, of a million lives. Do not speak this. Give us heaven immediately after this life.' God becomes a reality only if he can be achieved after this life — immediately.

On other hand. Buddha, Mahavir, Krishna, were talking to a very rich society. Today it has become difficult to understand because the whole wheel has turned. Now the West is rich and the East is poor. Then the West was poor and the East was rich. All the Hindu avatars, all the TIRTHANKARAS — world teachers — of the Jains, all the buddhas — awakened ones — they were all princes.

'They belonged to royal families. They were cultured, educated, sophisticated, refined in every way. You cannot refine Buddha more. He was absolutely refined, cultured, educated; nothing can be added. Even if Buddha comes today, nothing can be added.'

So they were talking to a society which was rich. Remember, for a rich society there are different problems. For a rich society, pleasure is meaningless, heaven is meaningless.

For a poor society, heaven is very meaningful. If the society is living in heaven, heaven becomes meaningless, so you cannot propose this. You cannot create an urge to do something for heaven; they are already in itand bored.

So Buddha, Mahavir, Krishna, do not talk about heaven, they talk of freedom. They do not talk of a pleasant world beyond, they talk of a transcendental world where there is neither pain nor pleasure. Jesus' heaven would not have appealed to them — they were already in it.

And secondly, for a rich man the real problem is boredom. For a poor man, promise him pleasure in the future. For a poor man, suffering is the problem. For a rich man, suffering is not the problem; for a rich man, boredom is the problem. He is bored of all pleasures. Mahavir, Buddha and Krishna, all used this boredom, and they said, 'If you do not do anything you are going to be born again and again. This wheel will move. Remember, the same life will be repeated.'

The same sex, the same richness, the same food, the same palaces again and again: a thousand and one times you will be moving in a wheel.

To a rich man who has known all pleasures this is not a good prospect, this repetition. Repetition is the problem. That is the suffering for him. He wants something new, and Mahavir and Buddha say, 'There is nothing new. This world is old. Nothing is new under the heavens, everything is just old. You have tasted all these things before and you will go on tasting them. You are in a wheel, moving. Go beyond it, take a jump out of the wheel.'

For a rich man, if you create a device which intensifies his feeling of boredom, only then can he move toward meditation. For a poor man, if you talk about boredom you are saying meaningless things. A poor man is never bored — never! Only a rich man is bored. A poor man is never bored; he is always thinking of the future. Something is going to happen and everything will be okay. The poor man needs a promise, but if the promise is a very long way away it becomes meaningless.
It must be immediate.

Jesus is reported to have said that "In my lifetime, in your lifetime, you will see the kingdom of God." That statement has haunted the whole of Christianity for twenty centuries, because Jesus said, "In YOUR life, immediately, you are going to see the kingdom of God." And the kingdom of God has not come even yet, so what did he mean? And he said, "The world is going to end soon, so do not waste time! Time is short."

Jesus said, "Time is very short. It is foolish to waste it. Immediately the world is going to end and you will have to answer for yourself, so repent."

Jesus created a feeling of immediacy through the concept of one life. He knew, and Buddha and Mahavir also knew. Whatsoever they knew is not told. Whatsoever they devised is known. This was a device to create immediacy, urgency, so that you would begin to act.

India was an old country, rich. There was no question of urgency in promises for the future. There was only one way possible to create urgency, and that was to create more boredom. If a man feels he is going to be born again and again, again and again, infinitely, ad infinitum, he immediately comes and asks, '¿How to be freed from this wheel? This is too much. Now I cannot continue it any more because whatsoever can be known I have known. If this is to be repeated it is a nightmare. I do not want to repeat it, I want something new.'

So Buddha and Mahavir say, 'There is nothing new under the sky. Everything is old and a repetition. And you have repeated for many, many lives, and you will go on repeating for many, many lives. Beware of the repetition, beware of your boredom. Take a jump.' The device is different, but the purpose is the same. Take a jump! Move! Transform yourself! Whatsoever you are, transform yourself from it.

If we take religious statements as DEVICES then there is no contradiction.

Then Jesus and Krishna, Mohammed and Mahavir, mean the same thing. They create different routes for different people, different techniques for different minds, different appeals for different attitudes. But those are not principles to be fought and argued about. They are devices to be used, transcended, and thrown."

This much for today.

THE END

«-Device = Stratagem-»


Excerpt from Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (Osho's) "The Book Of Secrets"

Inspiration References:

  • Denmarkguy's post.

  • Tarazkp's post.

  • Theycallmedan's post.

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«««-$-»»»

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Cranky Gandalf

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With this post I found philosophy interesting. I enjoy your style (deep thinking)

BR, Daniel

"I am not concerned at all with which is right and which is wrong. I am only concerned with which device works."

esto me dice muchas cosas de ti, como que por ejemplo, eres una persona objetiva que busca la verdad, eso me alegra muchisimo, ojala y mas personas aplicaran esta regla no solo en relgiones si no en politica y en la vida diaria, un gran abrazo, una excelente lectura, te recomiendo usar Steempeak (front-end muy bonito visualmente hecho por un grupo de steemians) que te permite usar 10 tags, excelente estrategia para que aumentes la cantidad de tags en tu post y puedas alcanzar mayor visibilidad.

esto me dice muchas cosas de ti, como que por ejemplo, eres una persona objetiva que busca la verdad

Así es hermano. Explorar, indagar y más que todo husmear a fondo en busca de la verdad siempre ha sido mi consigna. Obviamente, como buen científico investigador que no deja piedra sin levantar con absoluta 'imparcialidad' y sin prejuicios de ningún tipo antes de emitir un juicio o conclusión sin ya disponer previamente de todos los pelos del burro (negro o blanco) en la mano como para atreverme a opinar o difundir la información sobre cual es el color de ese carajo. };)

ojala y mas personas aplicaran esta regla no solo en relgiones si no en politica y en la vida diaria, un gran abrazo

Igualmente otro abrazo fuerte y grande para tí. Y estoy de acuerdo en que en todo tema, sea cual sea, debe ser todo antes muy bien rastreado, explorado, diseccionado, escudriñado, contrastado y analizado muy minuciosamente si realmente se pretende arribar a una conclusión medianamente más sólida de lo que creemos ya saber. Que vaya de paso... siendo tu venezolano, mi paisano y desde el punto de vista político, quizás y te interese examinar un pelo la perspectiva de lo que propongo tomar en cuenta en el contenido al cual haciendo click en ese texto en verde te conducirá. Jajajaja

Haciendo memoria. Y mira que aún conservo y tengo buena memoria. La verdad no recuerdo que hayas comentado antes en alguno de mis artículos o hayas interactuado conmigo previamente. Cosa que al haberlo hecho ahora, realmente me alegra enormemente. :)

Espero que no haya sido solo como resultado de tu reciente experiencia con el yage la que te ha dado el valor y por lo que te has atrevido a hacerlo ahora. Porque de ser así e intentar iniciar ahora un ciclo de seguimiento un poco más estrecho y cercano hacia mi contenido y a la forma extravagante como las escribo y describo. Creo que le vas a tener que pedir al taita rufino que te conceda otra sesioncita. Pero no de esas livianitas con cucharitas, pitillitos y mariqueritas de esas. Sino con una buena cerbatana y que quede todo ese polvero flotando a tu alrededor. Jajajaja

te recomiendo usar Steempeak (front-end muy bonito visualmente hecho por un grupo de steemians) que te permite usar 10 tags, excelente estrategia para que aumentes la cantidad de tags en tu post y puedas alcanzar mayor visibilidad.

Sí, conozco bien a Steempeak y su mayor generosidad con el uso de los tags. No obstante, recién ya comencé a usar otra plataforma que parece ser igual de generosa en ese departamento etiquetil. Y de hecho ya he publicado por primera vez un post con 10 etiquetas.

Vamos a ver ahora con cual me quedo cuando se presente de nuevo la ocasión. Porque a decir verdad y visto lo visto, luego de ya tres largos años jodiendito aquí en steemit. No se si va a ser una causa perdida pretender alcanzar mayor visibilidad. };)

De nuevo, un fuerte abrazo chamín. Y a continuar creando, experimentando y haciendo la excelente música que haces!!

Así es hermano. Explorar, indagar y más que todo husmear a fondo en busca de la verdad siempre ha sido mi consigna. Obviamente, como buen científico investigador que no deja piedra sin levantar con absoluta 'imparcialidad' y sin prejuicios de ningún tipo antes de emitir un juicio o conclusión sin ya disponer previamente de todos los pelos del burro

aqui se encuentra otro buscador de la verdad, a veces hay que sumergirnos en conocimientos para poder conectar aquello que se encuentra en el corazon con la mente y la acción, sugiero matemática caldea para la tarea, y mucha filosofia

con rufino ya hice el yopo hace tiempo amigo mio, una experiencia sin duda muy bonita, vi torrenciales de colores y me sentí ligero al tocar, me pasaron una especie de bombo de mano y me sentí en mi elemento... pero no, (o si?) no fue la medicina lo que me trajo a leerte si no una recomendación para descubrir tu trabajo en el discord de #naturalmedicine.

me encanta como escribiste todo porque fue haber leído sin duda alguna conceptos que yo comparto, incluyendo el de los pelos del burro en la mano, es por eso que en todo voy en armonía, aplicando pitagoras.

lo que si es cierto es que no había leído antes tu contenido y de igual manera, mi tiempo siendo parte activa de steemit es muy corto, me he dedicado mucho a postear (siempre estoy haciendo musica o diseñando a ello) pero desde un tiempo para acá, que coincide con el tiempo que llevo haciendo ejercicio, posteando a diario y siendo la mejor versión de mi.

ya me dirigiré a todos esos post que dejas, quizas te guste mi tesis de audio, pronto escribire algo sobre ella (:

I finally had to take a bite out of the master of tasking.. Thus I found your referral link. I was far less eloquent and illustrative and went with a basic please stfu you're so damn annoying and redundant, but his kind doesn't acknowledge my kind.. This clown began his most recent shilling for steem by saying 2 million users holding 10 sp will be a great stride towards our selling pressure liberation. That's the most idiotic thing I've ever seen here and that's miraculous to top the sheer stupidity that has inundated this platform of blind faith pandering..

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but his kind doesn't acknowledge my kind..

Our kind is what you mean?

And yet, nonetheless, curiously he has upvoted my comment over there with one of his Alts at 100% of his VP!! Gee!!

OUR kind indeed ! I did not wish to be exclusionary but also didn't want to possibly pull you into the black hole of existence I enjoy here. Perhaps I've earned myself another 🔇 mute trophy. It's becoming as easy as shooting fish in a barrel with a 12 gauge pump action pistol grip mossberg shotgun. 🐠

He is actually one of my most voted accounts. It was an experiment to see how influential piss ant votes from dissenters could potentially be. I have concluded my test..

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but also didn't want to possibly pull you into the black hole of existence I enjoy here.

Oh! don't worry. I've been living in the mere center of the half of the middle of the core of that black hole here for eons.

Perhaps I've earned myself another 🔇 mute trophy.

Uhm... let's check. erm... no! you are still a lucky bastard. :)

He is actually one of my most voted accounts.

Crap! now, I'm not sure if I understood this last one well. 😕

It just so happens I've given him plenty of upvotes so I can earn my lucrative curation by latching on to his guaranteed rewards.. I was wondering if after months of support and occasional tongue bitten diluted comments I might receive some reciprocation but no I am quite sure I've been looked over as a minor annoyance.. Forever filed into the not a company man category.. I've found one critical comment can easily find a man exiled into the parched desert of steem abandonment..

It just so happens I've given him plenty of upvotes so I can earn my lucrative curation by latching on to his guaranteed rewards..

Ah yeah! now I understand. Smart move mate. From a 'gifted curator/investor' acute point of view. ;)

I was wondering if after months of support and occasional tongue bitten diluted comments I might receive some reciprocation but no I am quite sure I've been looked over as a minor annoyance..

Well, it doesn't come as much surprise that the 'master of tasking' never has been a great commenter, replier & engagementer with so much 'reciprocal' interaction on his own posts and much less on other people content throughout his two years career here. So, 'reciprocation' is not precisely ingrained in his mindset. You know? ;)

I've found one critical comment can easily find a man exiled into the parched desert of steem abandonment..

Ah! my friend, don't worry about that. After a little bit of practice mastering the true art of burrowing. You will find out how much fun it is swim under desert's sands like a formidably exiled Scincus scincus & abandonedly seasoned sandfish.

U know Pythagoras hasn't to do anything with Geezus & stuff...!? ^^
His religion was the philosophy...

Oh yeah @phasewalker, my bad!!

You will have to ask to the ancient Egyptians to confirm and you can be sure about that. };)

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  ·  3 months ago Reveal Comment

when I was trucking there were long, long hours of unrelenting boredom.
punctuated minutes of bowel loosening panic!

boring is good.

punctuated minutes of bowel loosening panic!

Ah! then, that means you actually reached authentic 'meditation states' beyond boredom @everittdmickey.

This could explain clearly most of your sudden guruism riles & pull ups. LoL

and life became vital again. Real.

Now I'm not bored.

Boredom is the cancer of productivity and personal growth.

Great phrases & thoughts to emphasize the narrative and intention of this post my esteemed @lucylin. I'm very glad that a critical thinker of your caliber had found this article helpful and brilliant.

Thank you very much for your upvote, your welcomed comment and above all, for your resteem. :)

Cheers!!